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Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: FatFork on October 14, 2022, 11:12:04 AM

Welsh, thank you for your input. So in your opinion, a neutral tag with a short explanation and a reference to this thread would be appropriate in situations like this?

Neutral tag, with a neutral tone being clear that it's not exactly set in stone, and instead highlighting suspicions, sure. I personally won't be leaving a feedback score, and would just keep this in mind in the future.

The thing with neutral tags is a lot of the times the actual content within that neutral tag (i.e the text) is rather negative, and potentially could sway the user one way another without actually investigating themselves. So, neutral tags should probably stay as neutral as possible in tone when it comes to explaining why you've left it.

I'm certainly not the standard setter when it comes to feedback though. I relatively inactive in that scene.

FatFork

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 2700

Crypto Swap Exchange

Welsh, thank you for your input. So in your opinion, a neutral tag with a short explanation and a reference to this thread would be appropriate in situations like this?

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: FatFork on October 13, 2022, 03:27:48 AM

It's probably not enough evidence to link these two accounts beyond reasonable doubt

FatFork has got it right. While, these are suspicious circumstances there's just not quite enough evidence to link the two. However, anything that these two users do in the future, could potentially link them, and confirm the suspicious here.

Plus, if they start offering services or try to join a signature campaign a good signature manager will do their research, and likely find this thread, and take it into consideration. So, I don't consider posting the thread detrimental to catching them if they're alts or bought merit. However, I don't think there's enough compelling evidence to link the two accounts either.

Igebotz

staff

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1610

The Naija & BSFL Sherrif 📛

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 14, 2022, 04:24:21 AM

Quote from: Igebotz on October 14, 2022, 02:46:28 AM

The forum has become so boring that we now investigate a number of smerits given out. Grin

Merit history checking, checking plagiarism, busting scammers, investigating alternative accounts are always a thing for a group of people. It always will be. Like you said those with "over-wise" sometimes make it their career to climb the ladder of the forum. It's fine occasionally you find something and talk about it but when it become a regular routine for someone then it's questionable. Why? Let's talk about it some other day 🤣

TL is exceptional from my experience though.

I have no issue with scam bursters or alt account investigation; there is nothing wrong with cleaning the forum, but making it a daily job is where the problem lies. It is preferable to report when you step on something suspicious rather than searching for something suspicious. I will use my DT status to correct mistakes rather than make new ones.

I'm off to the gambling section because that's the only place where there's no drama.

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 4002

Most of these accounts end in deadlock because they cannot generate more merits and therefore will not be able to earn more money so the only mistake would be for the campaign manager who accepts members without merits, did not review the merit history, or at least create a new rule like you must get a single Merit every week or two.

But it is wrong to take any action regarding trust.

BitcoinGirl.Club

legendary

Activity: 2800

Merit: 2736

Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: Igebotz on October 14, 2022, 02:46:28 AM

The forum has become so boring that we now investigate a number of smerits given out. Grin

Merit history checking, checking plagiarism, busting scammers, investigating alternative accounts are always a thing for a group of people. It always will be. Like you said those with "over-wise" sometimes make it their career to climb the ladder of the forum. It's fine occasionally you find something and talk about it but when it become a regular routine for someone then it's questionable. Why? Let's talk about it some other day 🤣

TL is exceptional from my experience though.

Igebotz

staff

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1610

The Naija & BSFL Sherrif 📛

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 13, 2022, 03:10:33 PM

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

If I still left negative trust for merit abusers, this is one case where I'd have no doubt about what's going on. If the timing alone weren't enough evidence, the fact that 34 merits were given to an absolute shitpost should eliminate any doubts that these two accounts are either alts or that there's some merit being sold.

Only evidence removes doubts, and I've yet to see any previous connections between these two accounts. On the other hand, it's very possible for a random user to wake up and decide to spread his smerits as he pleases to random accounts, and I've seen a case or two like that in the past where a user woke up and started spreading merits to reputable and non-reputable members in order to have some merits activities..

Merits are personal, and how they are distributed is up to the user; I see many shit meme posts in the WO thread get many merits for being so shit! I saw you give a post 50 merits instantly, and TBH , I wouldn't give such a post even one merit. It's a matter of personal preference.

There could be connections to these accounts, but we don't have proof.

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 13, 2022, 06:12:44 AM

2. To build up their own reputation proving that they are always active to find wrong doings.

Both are bad since it's all are in personal level.

Lol there is this famous phrase "some people are wise, some are over-wise " the over-wise ones tends to do much, they see being on DT as job so they must write at least 1 feedback/day.

The forum has become so boring that we now investigate a number of smerits given out. Grin

Solosanz

hero member

Activity: 952

Merit: 662

Quote from: saxydev on October 14, 2022, 12:31:50 AM

Why does it matter? How merit helps him to scam? There are no vouches on his profile.

Merit can't help someone to scam because it's meaningless for reputation, anyone will look on his feedback to know if the account is trustworthy or not. Based on this case the account only have 4 activity which is he can't rank up since he need to post more and he can only rank up to Member rank. Since signature campaign mostly accept full member rank, I think this matter isn't really that matter. It's a different case if he haven't earn any single merit and someone give them 5 merit since the campaign requirement need at least 5 merit in 120 days to apply the campaign.

lovesmayfamilis

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 4265

✿♥‿♥✿

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 03:49:33 PM

Not necessarily a neutral feedback about merit abuse, but rather one talking about a possible linkage between hunnyfinance account to that of a serial scammer. I was thinking the timeline of events, including the sudden donation of merits to hunnyfinance was enough evidence to confirm that both accounts are linked.

In any case, this was not done by chance. We will soon be convinced of this and understand what purpose was pursued. Earlier, he also sent out 10 merits to new accounts for completely trifling posts. But all his accounts are now asleep. I think that the new idea will also fall asleep soon.

saxydev

member

Activity: 429

Merit: 52

Why does it matter? How merit helps him to scam? There are no vouches on his profile.

logfiles

copper member

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1837

🌀 Cosmic Casino

Quote from: LoyceV on October 13, 2022, 03:08:54 AM

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

What do you think, folks?

I think it's not important enough:

Quote from: ABCbits on October 13, 2022, 03:21:10 AM

I'll just add those member to ignore list, so i won't accidentally give them merit.

Not necessarily a neutral feedback about merit abuse, but rather one talking about a possible linkage between hunnyfinance account to that of a serial scammer. I was thinking the timeline of events, including the sudden donation of merits to hunnyfinance was enough evidence to confirm that both accounts are linked.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3556

Merit: 7011

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

If I still left negative trust for merit abusers, this is one case where I'd have no doubt about what's going on. If the timing alone weren't enough evidence, the fact that 34 merits were given to an absolute shitpost should eliminate any doubts that these two accounts are either alts or that there's some merit being sold.

Theymos might have written that guidance a while back, but it's not like he's going to punish anyone for tagging an account in an instance like this--nor would many, if any, DT members have any problem with it either. My point is that if you think this is blatant merit abuse and warrants more than a neutral feedback, my advice is to be bold and leave a neg. No debate is needed when the shenanigans is so obvious you'd have to be legally blind or sound asleep to miss it.

BitcoinGirl.Club

legendary

Activity: 2800

Merit: 2736

Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: FatFork on October 13, 2022, 09:37:36 AM

On the contrary, since the trust system is designed for, to quote theymos, "getting a general idea of someone's trade history and trustworthiness in one convenient location" ^[reference], and taking into account the evidence presented by Ratimov, it makes perfect sense for a neutral tag with a reference to this thread.,

Unless there are concrete evidence we have no right to write anything in others trust wall even with neutral feedback. The forum gave too much freedom to the users who are regular (us) just to do what we like wherever we like.

Quote from: FatFork on October 13, 2022, 09:37:36 AM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 13, 2022, 06:12:44 AM

These days I see too many neutral tags which actually can not be considered as neutral but a way to underestimate others. Most of it are given to achieve two agenda:
1. Of course to underestimate the users who they do not like
2. To build up their own reputation proving that they are always active to find wrong doings.

Both are bad since it's all are in personal level.

[..]

For the record this was mentioned to consider in general. Sorry I failed to point it out so you thought it was meant for this particular case.

FatFork

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 2700

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 13, 2022, 06:12:44 AM

Quote from: FatFork on October 13, 2022, 03:27:48 AM

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

It's probably not enough evidence to link these two accounts beyond reasonable doubt, but I don't see any harm in leaving them neutral feedback for future reference.

The Trust page of another user is not a dairy taking place for others. logfiles can easily keep a note for himself using Ninjastic's (TryNinja) users note extension: [Script] BitcoinTalk User Notes

On the contrary, since the trust system is designed for, to quote theymos, "getting a general idea of someone's trade history and trustworthiness in one convenient location" ^[reference], and taking into account the evidence presented by Ratimov, it makes perfect sense for a neutral tag with a reference to this thread. After all, while "user notes script" may be useful for taking personal notes, it is in no way a substitute for a proper-ish trust system when it comes to making people feel safe while engaging in transactions with questionable characters.

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 13, 2022, 06:12:44 AM

These days I see too many neutral tags which actually can not be considered as neutral but a way to underestimate others. Most of it are given to achieve two agenda:
1. Of course to underestimate the users who they do not like
2. To build up their own reputation proving that they are always active to find wrong doings.

Both are bad since it's all are in personal level.

That may be so, and there is even a saying about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, however, I don't see any of these points as valid arguments against leaving the neutral tag in this case.

BitcoinGirl.Club

legendary

Activity: 2800

Merit: 2736

Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: FatFork on October 13, 2022, 03:27:48 AM

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

It's probably not enough evidence to link these two accounts beyond reasonable doubt, but I don't see any harm in leaving them neutral feedback for future reference.

The Trust page of another user is not a dairy taking place for others. logfiles can easily keep a note for himself using Ninjastic's (TryNinja) users note extension: [Script] BitcoinTalk User Notes

These days I see too many neutral tags which actually can not be considered as neutral but a way to underestimate others. Most of it are given to achieve two agenda:
1. Of course to underestimate the users who they do not like
2. To build up their own reputation proving that they are always active to find wrong doings.

Both are bad since it's all are in personal level.

FatFork

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 2700

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

It's probably not enough evidence to link these two accounts beyond reasonable doubt, but I don't see any harm in leaving them neutral feedback for future reference.

ABCbits

legendary

Activity: 2870

Merit: 7490

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

What do you think, folks?

I'll just add those member to ignore list, so i won't accidentally give them merit.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: logfiles on October 13, 2022, 12:35:39 AM

What do you think, folks?

I think it's not important enough:

Quote from: theymos on April 24, 2018, 12:36:51 PM

I'm not going to lose sleep over people going to ridiculous lengths to buy merit, since only a small number of people will be willing and able to do that.

As long as merit sales are a black market, I'm happy, since that makes it far more difficult and expensive to buy merit. If that's the case, then the small volume of black-market merit trades don't themselves bother me much, and I think that it does more harm than good to get too witch-hunty about it.

logfiles

copper member

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1837

🌀 Cosmic Casino

The fact that coldice wakes up, Hunnyfinance then suddenly makes 2 posts after almost a year of silence and immediately receives 34 merits in one of the posts in a short time span means both accounts are under one person's control.

Coldice has negative rep involving at least 3 scams and I think they are trying to farm another account

I am not sure if It's a good idea from me to leave a neutral feedback on hunnyfinance profile for future reference. What do you think, folks?

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

Quote from: Symmetrick on October 12, 2022, 09:47:35 PM

Just a wonderful merit overflow, most likely, to his alt. Cheesy

Well, I see that coldice has his fair share of negative feedback.
Is this enough proof for also neg HunnyFinance? If people consider it's not, then it was a good move for a "fresh start".

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