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Yakamoto

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1007

Ok I'm gonna say that I "fell" for this too, but I did the math, and I'm making money...

I have honestly tried my hardest to find places where I lose my money, but the math says I am going up, consistently. Now I do also trade the hashes, but still. I've been holding a few hashes recently as the price is on an up trend, and I'm getting really nice ROIs.

Someone explain why it is such a bad investment though? I read the thread, but am I THAT different from everyone else in their experiences?

I checked everything; I'm making money. So I don't see what the problem is.

Wooo! Copy-paster!

This has been saved and reported to PrimeDice

Quote from: Yakamoto on June 14, 2014, 08:17:19 AM

Ok I'm gonna say that I "fell" for this too, but I did the math, and I'm making money...

I have honestly tried my hardest to find places where I lose my money, but the math says I am going up, consistently. Now I do also trade the hashes, but still. I've been holding a few hashes recently as the price is on an up trend, and I'm getting really nice ROIs.

Someone explain why it is such a bad investment though? I read the thread, but am I THAT different from everyone else in their experiences?

I checked everything; I'm making money. So I don't see what the problem is.

For reference.

InwardContour

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 260

Quote from: thegold on July 26, 2014, 09:46:53 AM

i think soo... but it's reasonable than mining with hardware when you have not much money..

The safest way to gain some money is investing all you can in bitcoins, not in mining hardware or cloud mining.
Cloud mining is easier but in order to have some profit from it, you have to be very lucky choosing the right coin to instamine.

thegold

member

Activity: 114

Merit: 100

i think soo... but it's reasonable than mining with hardware when you have not much money..

ShakyhandsBTCer

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: SecureErase on June 29, 2014, 08:12:02 AM

Quote from: Cluster2k on June 26, 2014, 12:28:33 AM

A few minutes with a calculator will show anyone why Cex.io can never be profitable when used just for mining. The price of a gigahash falls faster than the bitcoins that gigahash can generate during the same time, even if you end up selling the investment plus keeping the generated bitcoins. And then there are the fees.

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings. Everyone else loses.

Wrong i'm afraid, take a look at GHS price charts, been upwards since begin of May, interestingly it seems to have disconnected from it's inverse relationship to difficulty.. Take a look at the Futures contracts CEX.IO made available (FHA & FHM) again profitable opportunities.
If you ONLY buy cloud hashing sit back and expect a profit, then the only outcome you'll get is disapointment.
Trading GHS and mining combined can be profitable if you educate yourself and treat your trading as a business in terms of your approach.

This is a very interesting feature of the GHs that are sold by CEX. In a market that was 100% efficient the price of the GHs should gradually go down as they will produce less and less income in the future. I am curious to know how much cex trades GHs for their own account.

SecureErase

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

Quote from: Cluster2k on June 26, 2014, 12:28:33 AM

A few minutes with a calculator will show anyone why Cex.io can never be profitable when used just for mining. The price of a gigahash falls faster than the bitcoins that gigahash can generate during the same time, even if you end up selling the investment plus keeping the generated bitcoins. And then there are the fees.

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings. Everyone else loses.

Wrong i'm afraid, take a look at GHS price charts, been upwards since begin of May, interestingly it seems to have disconnected from it's inverse relationship to difficulty.. Take a look at the Futures contracts CEX.IO made available (FHA & FHM) again profitable opportunities.
If you ONLY buy cloud hashing sit back and expect a profit, then the only outcome you'll get is disapointment.
Trading GHS and mining combined can be profitable if you educate yourself and treat your trading as a business in terms of your approach.

DannyElfman

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: validium on June 28, 2014, 05:17:08 AM

Quote from: InwardContour on June 23, 2014, 12:31:10 AM

Quote from: Yakamoto on June 17, 2014, 12:48:54 PM

Quote from: ejinte on June 17, 2014, 12:37:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 01:40:55 PM

Quote from: doenerlover on June 16, 2014, 01:34:22 PM

Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.

That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?

In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.

PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.

PBmining is likely some kind of ponzi sceme. I would not at all recommend "investing" with them

I don't think pbmining is a ponzi do you have anything to support your claim, cex.io probably best fits that title the only people making money are its owners.

Simply because the only people who are making money are it's owners does not make something a ponzi scheme. The issue with cex (and all cloud mining services) is that their hashes are overpriced as well as the fact that you cannot easily predict the difficulty of the network in the future

validium

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Decentralized thinking

Quote from: InwardContour on June 23, 2014, 12:31:10 AM

Quote from: Yakamoto on June 17, 2014, 12:48:54 PM

Quote from: ejinte on June 17, 2014, 12:37:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 01:40:55 PM

Quote from: doenerlover on June 16, 2014, 01:34:22 PM

Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.

That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?

In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.

PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.

PBmining is likely some kind of ponzi sceme. I would not at all recommend "investing" with them

I don't think pbmining is a ponzi do you have anything to support your claim, cex.io probably best fits that title the only people making money are its owners.

Yakamoto

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1007

Quote from: odolvlobo on June 26, 2014, 12:58:11 PM

Quote from: Cluster2k on June 26, 2014, 12:28:33 AM

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings. Everyone else loses.

Actually, the ones that got in very early lost the most because cex.io shares are less over-priced now than they used to be. The only people that make money on cex.io shares are cex.io and some of the traders. Most of the traders and all of the miners lose.

Does this mean I'm one of the 10% who win? Cool!

But the quoted is correct, as those who bought early have a LOT of BTC they still have to pay off before they can see a value return, while the current price is almost 1/2 of some of the original prices.

But yes, it is possible to win. However, the entire things is a negative sum game.

Ironically, the fees are less than a minor nuisance. I've traded fine with the fees, and the price swings you need are very minor, about 3000 satoshi to pay off the fees. Very. very small. And the market fluctuates wildly, on a good day, and so you can get 10,000 or more satoshi from a single gigahash. Get it on an even better but still quite common day, and you're just made 100,000 satoshi.

But it could be true that everyone but some traders lose. But why is that? Is everyone not very good at trading...? (And don't give me the "fees" bullcrap. If you think you changed from Forex to Bitcoin to avoid broker commissions, you're very, very wrong.)

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4522

Merit: 3426

Quote from: Cluster2k on June 26, 2014, 12:28:33 AM

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings. Everyone else loses.

Actually, the ones that got in very early lost the most because cex.io shares are less over-priced now than they used to be. The only people that make money on cex.io shares are cex.io and some of the traders. Most of the traders and all of the miners lose.

ALToids

hero member

Activity: 519

Merit: 500

The game of hot potato. He who holds it at the end will get burned bad.

Cluster2k

legendary

Activity: 1692

Merit: 1018

A few minutes with a calculator will show anyone why Cex.io can never be profitable when used just for mining. The price of a gigahash falls faster than the bitcoins that gigahash can generate during the same time, even if you end up selling the investment plus keeping the generated bitcoins. And then there are the fees.

The only people who make money on cex.io are the ones who got in very early and the traders riding the price downwards while extracting value from price swings. Everyone else loses.

ejinte

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: Harley997 on June 24, 2014, 08:18:14 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on June 24, 2014, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: percocet on June 24, 2014, 11:24:44 AM

Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Keep in mind that cex.io is an exchange. You are not buying shares from cex.io, you are buying them from other customers. cex.io shares are money-losers simply because people are willing to buy them at a loss. The price remains high because cex.io is dominated by mathematically-challenged customers.

cex is the original owner of all of the GH/s on their site.

I some guys been doing pretty good buying low selling high there

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: odolvlobo on June 24, 2014, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: percocet on June 24, 2014, 11:24:44 AM

Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Keep in mind that cex.io is an exchange. You are not buying shares from cex.io, you are buying them from other customers. cex.io shares are money-losers simply because people are willing to buy them at a loss. The price remains high because cex.io is dominated by mathematically-challenged customers.

cex is the original owner of all of the GH/s on their site.

Undone

member

Activity: 95

Merit: 10

Quote from: odolvlobo on June 16, 2014, 02:58:43 AM

Anyway, I don't know how to make the point any clearer: If 1 GH/s can mine X BTC, then it doesn't make sense for cex.io to sell it for less than X, and it doesn't make sense for a customer to buy it for more than X.

^^This, and end thread.

The biggest part of the problem is shown in this very thread; people are not doing the research to even see the forecast for how much this 1 GH/s will mine. That's ultimately what it boils down to.

I'm not understanding how people continue to flock to cloud mining, or BTC mining at all.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4522

Merit: 3426

Quote from: percocet on June 24, 2014, 11:24:44 AM

Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Keep in mind that cex.io is an exchange. You are not buying shares from cex.io, you are buying them from other customers. cex.io shares are money-losers simply because people are willing to buy them at a loss. The price remains high because cex.io is dominated by mathematically-challenged customers.

ejinte

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: percocet on June 24, 2014, 11:24:44 AM

Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

Then don't buy if you think it's a bad deal Wink

percocet

full member

Activity: 222

Merit: 102

Like most large companies, they simply take all the profits and leave their customers with bupkus. It is almost as though their attitude is that you should just send them your money and they give you back absolutely nothing in return.

ShakyhandsBTCer

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: doenerlover on June 16, 2014, 01:34:22 PM

Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.

This is true for most "gold rushes"

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4522

Merit: 3426

Quote from: ejinte on June 22, 2014, 02:11:45 PM

At November 21 I bought 166.5GH for 7.18029726 or $5000
At December 2 I bough another 99.9Gh for 2.92682927 or $3000

The price at that point was $1000 for 30GH however I emailed them and got an extra 3,3GH for each $1000 since I bought more than $3000.

Totally paid 10.08BTC and so far total return is 11.54BTC
That's 15% profit.
Last payout was 0.28BTC and that was for three weeks so yeah will probably end up at 20-30% profit in the end I guess.

Oh, sorry. I see now that you bought from e-pickaxe. The thread is about cex.io, so I thought that is where you bought your GH/s. That's why I was skeptical.

InwardContour

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 260

Quote from: Yakamoto on June 17, 2014, 12:48:54 PM

Quote from: ejinte on June 17, 2014, 12:37:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ejinte on June 16, 2014, 01:40:55 PM

Quote from: doenerlover on June 16, 2014, 01:34:22 PM

Mining is only profitable for hardware sellers - always.

That's not true. I got ROI and a 30% from my mining contract from e-pickaxe.

I find that very hard to believe. Right now, they are charging about 8.3 BTC for 1 TH/s, and 1 TH/s is likely to mine less than 6 BTC. I assume your deal was equally as bad.

Can you show us your numbers (in BTC)?

In November and December I bought 266GH for $8000. That was 10.12BTC at the time. Right now I've got 11.5BTC payed out from them. And they still pay me. 30% was a bit more than the reality I'm about 15% profit. Sorry about that mistake.

Right now they would maybe not go break even and there is better deals available. PBmining was they cheapest/GH when I last checked.

PBMining is the cheapest, but there are certain people who aren't trusting it yet.

I don't like how PBMining locks you in to a 4-5 year contract, even at the low GH/s price. I prefer to keep trading and the like as much as possible.

Plus PBMining hasn't shown any pictures of their mining locations to my knowledge, so that's another downer.

PBmining is likely some kind of ponzi sceme. I would not at all recommend "investing" with them

Topic: ... - page 2. (Read 9704 times)