Topic: .. (Read 2815 times)
All exchanges "want to go up", but until bitstamp does not move they cant go upper than $6-12 , so who is your daddy?
(yeah i know one reason is arbitrage and there is some other )
(yeah i know one reason is arbitrage and there is some other )
It's only arbitrage that links exchange prices. By the time you notice a price disparity across an exchange arbitrage bots will be on the case buying cheap and selling dear relieving the pressure until they can't cover fees.
In this case the "daddies" were the big bank arbitragers.
The wall builder made a nice "donation" to them and lost control of ~15k bitcoin in the process.
There's no mysterious voodoo control exerted by such behaviour other than establishing strong support at $300 thus increasing the chance that you will never be able to buy your coins back at the price you let them go for.
Actually on localbitcoins the price was not following bitstamp lately, because the sudden price drop attracted huge amount of buyers, and sellers are all running out of coins, and it takes time for funds to reach exchanges who have cheap coins. Some local dealer's price has been raised by as much as 20% by the time I'm writing this, and they are still the cheapest one on the local market
You can't control the market but you can influence it.
Bingo.
Sometimes that's enough though.
The majority of coins are sold OTC. Anybody who does a lot of big trading knows this.
But how are coins valued? You guessed it, most of the time using the price on BITSTAMP.
What does this mean? If you are able to control the price on Bitstamp, you control how much Bitcoin is sold for elsewhere.
Let's say you want to buy a block of coins from an exchanger, OTC. If you are able to manipulate the price on Bitstamp with a sell/buy wall, you directly affect the price you pay from the exchanger.
Bitstamp's volume is tiny in comparison to the OTC market. Their only real function is determining a VALUATION of Bitcoin as a whole. The market depth/volume on Bitstamp is a joke in comparison to how much is traded OTC daily.
Control Bitstamp's price, you more or less control the market price everywhere.
Make sense?
But how are coins valued? You guessed it, most of the time using the price on BITSTAMP.
What does this mean? If you are able to control the price on Bitstamp, you control how much Bitcoin is sold for elsewhere.
Let's say you want to buy a block of coins from an exchanger, OTC. If you are able to manipulate the price on Bitstamp with a sell/buy wall, you directly affect the price you pay from the exchanger.
Bitstamp's volume is tiny in comparison to the OTC market. Their only real function is determining a VALUATION of Bitcoin as a whole. The market depth/volume on Bitstamp is a joke in comparison to how much is traded OTC daily.
Control Bitstamp's price, you more or less control the market price everywhere.
Make sense?
You are wrong! You can't control the market but you can influence it. A market is about buyers and sellers so if you put up a massive wall then that price will stick until the wall is broken through.
Yes this will have an effect regarding other exchanges but then it opens the door to Arbritage.
Last night a 30,000 wall at around 3.00 am. The price stopped for about 4 hours and then bounced 50 points when it fell.
How, exactly did that deal control the market?
What doesn't make sense about what you say is that the valuation would be determined by Bitstamp. I would think that the valuation is determined by wherever the largest volume of trades is occurring. If that's happening OTC, fine, then OTC is setting the price. Why would large volume bitcoin traders care what some "small time" exchange has to say on the matter?
Because it's the most well known. Simple.
There is no central "authority" on price for the OTC market. Those trading over-the-counter look to exchanges in determining market value.
Bitstamp is the most recognized.
This. I have traded over at localbitcoins from time to time and this is so true, many buyers and sellers peg the prices on stamp. When I first started trading there, I got laughed at when I tried to negotiate the price with what gox had LOL.
The recent bitstamp $300 wall proved that you can't really control global BTC price as OP suggests.
Here's a brief rundown...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9102870
...I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
Here's a brief rundown...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9102870
Well, Stamp is the go-to exchange, and it is also used by Coinbase and other services as a source and a reference value, thus it dictates the price, almost like Mt.Gox back in the days, although they only were the go-to exchange, because they were first.
This has to change. Stampfuck is not to be trusted.
Really? I keep on seeing some people complaining about Bitstamp, but fail to see how they really are evil. I get that BTC-e is shady as hell, but Bitstamp seems rather safe and legit. Do you have any serious proof or indicators suggesting otherwise?
Well, Stamp is the go-to exchange, and it is also used by Coinbase and other services as a source and a reference value, thus it dictates the price, almost like Mt.Gox back in the days, although they only were the go-to exchange, because they were first.
This has to change. Stampfuck is not to be trusted.
He's right.
For some stupid reason, it is my impression that Stampfuck is more trusted and keyed off of than other exchanges, especially by coinbase. Maybe because it's non Chinese, backed by Pantera, who knows.
I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
For some stupid reason, it is my impression that Stampfuck is more trusted and keyed off of than other exchanges, especially by coinbase. Maybe because it's non Chinese, backed by Pantera, who knows.
I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
well it got eaten down to around 15,000 by many (participated) when there was a nice single 11,000+ buy and then the lines started jumping around
Well that's exactly how I figured it would play out. Well done everybody. A true group collective take down. Let the little guys clear the way for a whale to come in and finish it off. I hope we can all learn from this and harden our trading skills.
It is also not possible to effectively control the price on an exchange
you must be new 
He's right.
For some stupid reason, it is my impression that Stampfuck is more trusted and keyed off of than other exchanges, especially by coinbase. Maybe because it's non Chinese, backed by Pantera, who knows.
I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
For some stupid reason, it is my impression that Stampfuck is more trusted and keyed off of than other exchanges, especially by coinbase. Maybe because it's non Chinese, backed by Pantera, who knows.
I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
well it got eaten down to around 15,000 by many (participated) when there was a nice single 11,000+ buy and then the lines started jumping around
The majority of coins are sold OTC. Anybody who does a lot of big trading knows this.
But how are coins valued? You guessed it, most of the time using the price on BITSTAMP.
What does this mean? If you are able to control the price on Bitstamp, you control how much Bitcoin is sold for elsewhere.
Let's say you want to buy a block of coins from an exchanger, OTC. If you are able to manipulate the price on Bitstamp with a sell/buy wall, you directly affect the price you pay from the exchanger.
Bitstamp's volume is tiny in comparison to the OTC market. Their only real function is determining a VALUATION of Bitcoin as a whole. The market depth/volume on Bitstamp is a joke in comparison to how much is traded OTC daily.
Control Bitstamp's price, you more or less control the market price everywhere.
Make sense?
But how are coins valued? You guessed it, most of the time using the price on BITSTAMP.
What does this mean? If you are able to control the price on Bitstamp, you control how much Bitcoin is sold for elsewhere.
Let's say you want to buy a block of coins from an exchanger, OTC. If you are able to manipulate the price on Bitstamp with a sell/buy wall, you directly affect the price you pay from the exchanger.
Bitstamp's volume is tiny in comparison to the OTC market. Their only real function is determining a VALUATION of Bitcoin as a whole. The market depth/volume on Bitstamp is a joke in comparison to how much is traded OTC daily.
Control Bitstamp's price, you more or less control the market price everywhere.
Make sense?
Yes, If i had for example 30.000 coins and I wanted to buy another 30.000 ( 10%-20% below current price level) , i would deposit 20.000 btc to bitstamp and manipulate the market causing a panic selling (other exchanges will follow bitstamp)
I would sell 20.000 btc at 350 (everybody could see my selling order in the order book, sell pressure) while the panic sellers would push the price lower and lower with me for example to $300 , at this point i would buy 30.000 on OTC at $300 (they follow the exchange rate) , nobody will see my huge buying order (no buy pressure, exchange rate wont move), and after it i would buy back my 20.000 btc at lower prices on the exchanges
i can repeat it until the market found its bottom (from 680- 280 ? or lower)
i know i am a noob and perhaps this theory is bullshit, but some early adopters are noob too and perhaps one of them will try it
He's right.
For some stupid reason, it is my impression that Stampfuck is more trusted and keyed off of than other exchanges, especially by coinbase. Maybe because it's non Chinese, backed by Pantera, who knows.
I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
For some stupid reason, it is my impression that Stampfuck is more trusted and keyed off of than other exchanges, especially by coinbase. Maybe because it's non Chinese, backed by Pantera, who knows.
I was alseep when the wall got eaten. What happened?
That there are arbitrage bots and that the market has shallow volume in general is a given. You make no new points here really.
You said people are looking at bitstamp only, so right now that deal would be at 300. If an OTC trader looks at bitcoinaverage the trade would be at 306.
You said people are looking at bitstamp only, so right now that deal would be at 300. If an OTC trader looks at bitcoinaverage the trade would be at 306.
There's sites like: https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD
If you "a lot of big trading" and don't know about those, well, I don't know what to say.
If you "a lot of big trading" and don't know about those, well, I don't know what to say.
It is also not possible to effectively control the price on an exchange
it is, put up a 30,000 btc wall where you want your price to stop.
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