Topic: #1 RATINGS and REVIEWS of SPORTS BOOKS thread. Poster input appreciated. - page 54. (Read 89572 times)

Bitbook shutting down is kind of sad

Liked their initial UI/Ux actually

Thanks to all for their input in the KGambler/Betcoin case.

KGambler, please send us your address for payment of the btc.  This has been a tremendous learning experience for all of us and we appreciate everyone's responses.

Yeah it's pretty obvious that he wants the 7.67BTC that he (and I think you) are claiming to be withholding from his account.

Just pay him his money is what u should do. I was going to deposit and play with u but given I know who KGambler is in other forums I go by what he is saying to be truthful, this guy u are messing with is not just any random person. Next time when u guys get beat to bad by someone cut them off instead of taking there action and then now your in this position.

All I have to say is if KGambler says these guys stiffed him out of money u better be sure that they did, he will not lie about a book from seeing him around. Everyone here needs too know that he is a well respected poster in various other forums including SBR, which I have known who he is for quite a few years now probably at least 3-4. I have never seen him once bad mouth a book for no reason. U can go to SBR and check my name out same name as here and see how many years I have been there and how much I do in that forum.
Sorry KGambler that this crappy book is pulling a fast one on u. Guys do not be fooled by that book.

KGambler as so many businesses in this situation must do for a variety of reasons, we now turn to you and ask what would you like us to do?  You say we have given you 15 btc in bonuses, and to that we say anything over 5 btc in bonuses would have been in error, but we did give it to you therefore it was our error. 

What would you like us to do?  We won't resort to name calling, profanity or anything of that sort.  We made errors in our bonuses and though many of our other players understood and were fine, you seek an alternate resolution and that is fine.  We continue to learn everyday, improve and deliver a very good product that a couple thousand people enjoy everyday. 

We are not going anywhere and this won't be the last time we are attacked but we will always do what is right.  What would you like us to do to resolve this matter? 

So are you saying that you gave him too many bonus' and then withheld his balance some time later?  How much later was it?  A day?  A week?  A month?

How was it that you gave him too much in bonus'?  A website error?  Did he exploit a loophole somewhere?  How did you notice it?  Did other accounts also receive to much in bonus'?  Was it clear that the bonus amount was too large (ie do you have a deal where you say deposit 5BTC and get a 1BTC bonus, and instead of giving him 1BTC you accidently gave him 5BTC)?  Is there a transaction ledger that would show this (obviously you would both need to agree to show his transaction ledger publicly)?  Does he have access to this ledger?

You should explain what you mean by this.  I know the whole story and even I have no idea what you are talking about.

How could I only have been eligible for 5 BTC in bonuses?  This is all happened about 5 months ago.  Surely you have long time customers who know this is not true.  Whatever rules you have now don't apply retro-actively to October of 2013.

ve

The only reason that point was relevant is because KGambler made it seem as though he won big and was never paid, that simply is not true.  

Yes, the issue is with the 7.67 bonus.  He states we gave him 15 in bonuses, whether or not it was 15 or 25 anything over 5 btc was given in error.  We would like to receive the communities thoughts and comments on this and whatever the community decides we will abide by.  Thank you.  

TL;DR cliff notes:

-  First deposited to Betcoin Sports back on Sep 30

-  Made last deposit to Betcoin Sports in November.  My last bonus received was in early October.  In this time period, btc were worth less than $130 and Betcoin was occasionally giving out 5 btc bonuses.  I received a few bonuses in this time period (by my math, three 5 btc bonuses but they won't give me the records)

-  Won a lot of btc betting sports and was occasionally taking withdrawals

-  Jan 7th at noon EST, with about 24 btc in my account, I requested a cashout of 16 btc (I kept betting in the following week and won another 4 BTC or so)

-  Night of Jan 8th, 33 hours later, I still had not heard back.  I wrote an email asking if something went wrong with the cashout.  Betcoin responded that my account was under investigation for receiving too many bonuses due to an error on their end.  They said that I had received over 30 btc of bonuses in error.  I did not think I had even received 30 btc in bonuses over the life of my account and told them so.

-  They have since paid me 20 btc but say they won't pay the final 7.67 btc in my account because the bonuses were given in error.

-  First they said I had received over 30 btc of bonuses in error.  Then they said I had received a total of 40 btc in bonuses and that this was 25 btc more than I should have received.  Then they said I had received a total of 20 btc in bonuses.  Now they say I have received a total of 25 btc worth of bonuses.  Yes, this is all in the correspondence.  I went back and looked through my account and my math shows that I received only 15 btc worth of bonuses (keep in mind all of the bonuses were received in October, when bitcoin was under $130).  It is possible I am missing something because they won't provide the full records for my account.  I could only go back to October 21.  All of my bonuses were received before that date.  The last one was probably received October 6th.  I came up with the 15 btc in bonuses by analysing my deposits, my withdrawals, my betting winnings and my final balance.  My sports bet winnings accounted for everything except like 14.x btc.

-  Months later, with btc at about $900, they were informing me that they were revoking an amount of bonuses that I was certain I hadn't even ever received.  I could only go back 12 weeks in my account history so I asked them for my entire account history so that I could verify the amount of bonuses I had received.  They twice told me they would send me this history but I have still not received it.

-  I contacted Alan Karre of bitcoincasinopro.com because at the time he was active on BitCoinTalk forum and he was an affiliate of BetCoinSports.  He said that Betcoin would agree with him being a binding mediator if I would also agree.  I agreed.  A few days later, Alan disappeared.  He does not post on BitCoinTalk.  He does not respond to emails.  Based on his final posts on BitCoinTalk, I am guessing he received legal advice to cease and desist with his business, although the website is still there.

- I then contacted Raiders from Peep's Place and asked if he could look into it since he was starting to rate BTC sportsbooks on BitCoinTalk.  He agreed to contact them.  Betcoin told him that they never agreed to Alan Karre as a binding mediator.  I don't know if this is true.  Again, Alan is no longer responding to PMs or emails, and he doesn't post anymore.  They told Raiders that they would send him my transaction logs.  They lied.  Raiders said he can't really mediate disputes, that he is just giving ratings not acting as an arbitrator.

I first deposited Sept 30.  Back then they were a new book and were giving 5 BTC bonuses at various times.  The last bonus I received was in early October.  My math shows that I received 15 BTC in bonuses, and that is how I remember it.  Keep in mind BTC was at around $120 at that time.

I had no problems until JANUARY 7th (with BTC at about $1K) when I requested a payout of 16 BTC.  I didn't hear back, which was weird.  So a couple of days later I emailed them asking about my withdrawal.  They replied that I had received over 30 BTC in bonuses in error.

After a whole lot of emails, PMs and phone calls, they paid me 20 BTC of my 27.67 BTC balance.

Longer cliffs coming...

Yes, that is exactly the issue.  I will write up cliff notes of what happened now.

The amount someone has won and you have paid is irrelevant.  That's what you are supposed to do.

It seems the issue right now is with 7.67BTC.  We'd need more info from both of you on what happened with that amount of money.  He said you guys stiffed him on it, which is inconclusive, you claim you mistakenly overpaid him a bonus and then took it out.  Is that the discrepancy that he's talking about?

Stop with the nonsense.  You know this is not an extortion attempt.  You stole from me and jerked me around for 2 months.  I have had enough.



I didn't mention the current price of tea in China either.  What kind of Mickey Mouse book are you?  Why would my winnings to date effect whether or not I should be able to withdraw my full balance? 

You think I wasn't going to tell the whole story, with all of the facts laid out?  I have all of our correspondence.  It has been sent to Sports Book Review.  Nothing will be held back.  I was going to wait until they said I could or should make it all public, but it seems it is time.  Should we post all of the correspondence here?

These bonuses were given in September and October, when BTC was at about $120.  The bulk of my BTC winnings occurred well before the price of BTC exploded.  In January, with BTC at $900, you suddenly started making ridiculous claims about how I had received bonuses in error.   



This is a lie. 

My math shows I received 15 BTC in bonuses.  Not surprisingly, this is how I remember things as well.  On Jan 9th you said "we noticed that over 30 btc in bonus credits was erroneously paid out to your account".  On Jan 12th you said "in error your account received over 40 btc of bonuses".  Jan 15th you said "We have confirmed exactly 20 btc worth of bonuses".  Jan 25th you said "we admitted making numerous mistakes in granting bonuses to you totaling over 25 btc".  So which is it?

You twice told me you would send me the logs so I could verify for myself how much in bonuses you had given me.  You lied.  You told Peep's Place you would send him the logs.  You lied.

Where are the logs?  Why won't you send them?  Why did you tell us you would and then renege, three times?  Why do the numbers keep changing?  I looked at my deposits, my withdrawals, my total winnings and did the math... the bonuses were just 15 BTC, just like I had remembered them being. 

I called your bullshit the very first email you sent me claiming I had received over 40 BTC worth of bonuses in error.  I told you right then that could not possibly be correct.



This is very misleading.  My last bonus was given in early October, when BTC traded for under $130.  In January, with BTC at about $900 you suddenly claimed that my bonuses had been given in error and were making the truly outrageous claim that I had received 40 BTC in bonuses.  I did not threaten you.  I tried very patiently to work things out with you by telling you that I had not received 40 BTC in bonuses and that I felt I was owed my entire balance.



I am pissed off.  You have jerked me around and lied to me for 8 weeks now.  I did not threaten to post negative comments about you.  That is silly.  I told you I would be telling the facts of my case.  There is nothing wrong with reporting to the community when a book gets shady.
 
Should we post our correspondence?

Everyday we are faced with one person or another trying to extract btc out of us.  We are positive that bitbook.biz experienced the same pressures that we experience and they have chosen to fold.  Now we have to defend ourselves from an attack by KGambler, the highest winner in our sportsbook to date.  KGAMBLER has won and been paid out over 173 btc to date positive! Of course there is no mention of this in any of his posts.  Throughout this time KGambler was granted in excess of 25 btc in bonuses.  When the error was discovered, we immediately subtracted the bonuses, but of course KGambler was upset, therefore we settled with KGambler paying him 18 btc of the 25 outstanding in bonuses because of the persistent threats.  He has now threatened to post negative comments on every forum, which I am sure will not include that he was paid 173 btc positive and 18 btc in mistaken bonuses. 

The allegations above are false if you win big at this place, you will not get stiffed.  If you win big, you will get paid big!  Ask KGambler, how BIG he got paid.  If we make an error on the bonuses, we will still pay you some of those bonuses, which in retrospect, we should have never done.  Also, we have not been lying low, we have been working very hard, vocal on bitcointalk, building out a better backend, mobile website, app, and more. 

We all try to please everyone in every way possible, we try to give you the best and most fair gaming experience possible.  KGambler won 173 bitcoins, was paid 173 bitcoins promptly and given excess bonuses which he was also paid even after we discovered the error.  This would have destroyed most bitcoin casinos, but even when we sent him a 100 btc withdrawal, we knew we were in this for the long run and we were prepared for these type of winners.  It is unfortunate KGambler has chosen this route, but we are going to continue to provide the best possible service to our nearly 10,000 members, 2,000 of which play everyday and send us the best compliments we could ever ask for. 

We will ask the community to decide what we should do in this situation.  Reviewing what KGambler has wrote and our response, the winnings, bonuses, amount paid.  We ask the community to resolve this.  He knows we have treated him with the utmost respect.  We wish you all could be winners like KGambler, winning and being paid out 173 btc.  Maybe we should stop all of our bonus programs as this is the only time we ever have any issues?  Whatever the community decides within reason we shall abide by?

Betcoin Sports stiffed me for 7.67 BTC.

I am in the process of filing a complaint against them with SportsBookReview.  I tried to get help from AKsplace/Alan Karre/BitcoinCasinoPro.com but he went missing.  He had told me that Betcoin had agreed to use him as a binding mediator, but then he just flat out disappeared and Betcoin denies ever accepting him as a mediator.  I have no idea what happened there.  I then took it to Peep's Place.  He agreed to look into it.  Betcoin agreed to send him my transaction logs.  They lied, just like they lied when they twice told me the same thing weeks earlier (yes, I have the emails).

If you win big at this place, you will get stiffed.  They have been stalling and lying for weeks now.

Thanks for a serious thread, let's keep this active instead of the effing ponzi threads.

A" rated books
Anonibet A
Betcoinsports A-

"B"rated books
Casinobitcoin B
Cloudbet B  
CoinBet B
DirectBet
NitrogenSports B
SBObitcoin B-

"C" rated books
Bitbm C
Bitcoinlivebets C-


"D" rated books
BTCSportsbet
BTCSportsmatch
Jetwin

"F" rated books
Bitcoinsport
Bitsaloon
StakeBTC
BitBook (closing down)

BitBook closing.