Sad situation. Shoulda just left him alone until we knew with a greater
level of confidence that something was wrong.
In his shoes:
I would owe it to the pool to stick it out until doubt gives way to certainty.
It was not going to take that much longer to figure this out.
Since the pool had been very generous to me, I would stick around and
return the favor. Otherwise, I would be sharing a bounty that I did not earn.
If vindicated, troublemakers would have to eat some serious crow, lose their
credibility and forum privileges.
If not, I would owe the pool.
Of course, "Thats just my opinion; I could be wrong."
Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff] - page 43. (Read 837101 times)
June 20, 2014, 02:18:13 PM
June 20, 2014, 01:47:59 PM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
From what he posted, I didn't expect diversify to mean Bitminer = 0%. That's like infinite diversity
I don't see multipool anywhere on the top 50 of Bitminter.
Based on a post he put on his web site I would say we will not see him back on BitMinter any time soon.
"Jun 20 3:29 AM I've made the decision to move us off bitminter due to its toxic community. I will be splitting our hash between several major pools in an attempt to smooth out our variance."
I feel for the guy 'if he just had 2 weeks of bad luck and was completely unlucky' , but with the April and May on the other pools having the 'bad luck' issues. A big miner admitting poor software being the cause.
He had terrible timing for a bad luck streak.
June 20, 2014, 01:46:26 PM
Based on a post he put on his web site I would say we will not see him back on BitMinter any time soon.
"Jun 20 3:29 AM I've made the decision to move us off bitminter due to its toxic community. I will be splitting our hash between several major pools in an attempt to smooth out our variance."
Maybe that's why he left. Here's another possibility:
"Jun 20 3:29 AM I've made the decision to move us off bitminter so that I could scam them and say it was bad luck without them ever being able to prove it."
I suspect we'll never know which is the real reason for multipool's departure.
Personally I wish that he wasn't verbally attacked by members of this forum, but I also wish that his pool pulled its weight while a part of Bitminter. Both are out of my control, so I'm not getting worked up about either.
June 20, 2014, 01:29:59 PM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
From what he posted, I didn't expect diversify to mean Bitminer = 0%. That's like infinite diversity
I don't see multipool anywhere on the top 50 of Bitminter.
Based on a post he put on his web site I would say we will not see him back on BitMinter any time soon.
"Jun 20 3:29 AM I've made the decision to move us off bitminter due to its toxic community. I will be splitting our hash between several major pools in an attempt to smooth out our variance."
June 20, 2014, 12:37:04 PM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
From what he posted, I didn't expect diversify to mean Bitminer = 0%. That's like infinite diversity
I don't see multipool anywhere on the top 50 of Bitminter.
renamed and shrunk to 20 workers of 10 to 30 th. across 3 pools say btcguild, bitminter and eligus.
which is why I did not want him to leave as I wanted to know if his software has issues. now we don't ever get to know.
which is what I said would or could happen if we all kept complaining about the issue.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7284301
this was my first thread post talking about multipool.
BTW I wanted a solo server and mentioned it well before this post lets see .
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7197340
June 8th was my first question about getting a solo option put in.
Frankly I got pissed off when everyone started talking about multipool and their fears about them.
Until it dawned on me that was the best reason yet to have a solo mining option available on major pools.
Well for now I have split my hash across a few pools since that is all I can do by myself.
June 20, 2014, 12:24:08 PM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
From what he posted, I didn't expect diversify to mean Bitminer = 0%. That's like infinite diversity
I don't see multipool anywhere on the top 50 of Bitminter.
June 20, 2014, 12:12:37 PM
Multipool hit one BTC block while mining on bitminter and several NMC blocks.
June 20, 2014, 11:23:00 AM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
Too bad he left . I really would have preferred the Doctor to setup a solo pool option. Then have multipool run in it for 10 days.
The solo option is the acid test for anyone with so called 'Bad Luck' gear and we will never know if multipool has it or not.
This brings me back to :
mulitpool A 11th
multipool B 12th
multipool C 15th
so on and so forth until they are back up to 250th and leaching off us or another pool.
To make myself clear I do not believe multipool possessed gear/software that does this.
But multipool refused to test his gear/software if the Doc offered the solo pool option.
Does anyone see why I want pools to offer us a simple easy solo pool option?
Or am I talking too incoherently for anyone to understand me.
And now if multipool has full knowledge of bad gear/ bad software in the case of his setup he can direct it at any pool in small groups hard to detect.
So since every major pool that I asked has so far refused to set up a solo mining section all a miner can do is mine on multiple pools to spread risk.
Which is what I do.
dude all that hash power are not his gear to test
And if he has bad software it will never show a btc block. I am convinced that the gear is such a wide choice of gear that some of it can really make blocks.
I am not certain that his software can correctly gather all the different miners pass the information to bitminter correctly and make a btc block. If there was a solo pool choice on bitminter he could run there and if it worked no one would question his 'bad luck'.
I am certain of 3 things so far :
1) no major pool wants to setup this solo mining option.
2)' bad luck gear software' has a very good chance of existing .
3) multipool left saying he will spilt his hash power (the hash power he collected and managed for other miners) and he does not have to prove his software works to us.
While he was here how much did he collect?
I am lazy ,but it was in the thousands of USD
How many BTC blocks did he hit? I believe none.
Now I respect and like the Doctor and his pool is not USA based.
I am not being an A-hole here I continue to mine with the Doc and I like him a lot.
I am pointing out something that can hurt all of us.
I am asking for some solutions other then my three which are :
1)every miner should mine in 3 or more pools at the same time.
2) every big established pool needs to offer an easy solo server section to any miner.
3) any major miner in any pool can be asked to use the solo server section of the pool for 1 week.
To define major miner if he should hit 1 block every 3 days if he solo mined he is a major miner.
These three ideas really should be industry standards for miners and pools.
I hope this is understandable to all that read it.
June 20, 2014, 10:57:39 AM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
Too bad he left . I really would have preferred the Doctor to setup a solo pool option. Then have multipool run in it for 10 days.
The solo option is the acid test for anyone with so called 'Bad Luck' gear and we will never know if multipool has it or not.
This brings me back to :
mulitpool A 11th
multipool B 12th
multipool C 15th
so on and so forth until they are back up to 250th and leaching off us or another pool.
To make myself clear I do not believe multipool possessed gear/software that does this.
But multipool refused to test his gear/software if the Doc offered the solo pool option.
Does anyone see why I want pools to offer us a simple easy solo pool option?
Or am I talking too incoherently for anyone to understand me.
And now if multipool has full knowledge of bad gear/ bad software in the case of his setup he can direct it at any pool in small groups hard to detect.
So since every major pool that I asked has so far refused to set up a solo mining section all a miner can do is mine on multiple pools to spread risk.
Which is what I do.
dude all that hash power are not his gear to test
June 20, 2014, 10:52:24 AM
Gee thanks to the morons for chasing off all that hashrate. Lets see if we can chase off all of our biggest hashers. That should work out great.
June 20, 2014, 09:40:02 AM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
Too bad he left . I really would have preferred the Doctor to setup a solo pool option. Then have multipool run in it for 10 days.
The solo option is the acid test for anyone with so called 'Bad Luck' gear and we will never know if multipool has it or not.
This brings me back to :
mulitpool A 11th
multipool B 12th
multipool C 15th
so on and so forth until they are back up to 250th and leaching off us or another pool.
To make myself clear I do not believe multipool possessed gear/software that does this.
But multipool refused to test his gear/software if the Doc offered the solo pool option.
Does anyone see why I want pools to offer us a simple easy solo pool option?
Or am I talking too incoherently for anyone to understand me.
And now if multipool has full knowledge of bad gear/ bad software in the case of his setup he can direct it at any pool in small groups hard to detect.
So since every major pool that I asked has so far refused to set up a solo mining section all a miner can do is mine on multiple pools to spread risk.
Which is what I do.
June 20, 2014, 08:48:29 AM
I like the idea of any new large addition to our pool coming on line in stages. Even if its not statistically improbable, bringing 1/7th of the entire pool online at the same time we experience a run of bad luck looks BAD. And I would think anyone would want to bring that much online in stages to see the results for themselves. (I know I didn't turn on all of my antminers at once. I brought one up, watched it for a few hours and then started another... Staggered as it were.)
June 20, 2014, 08:32:32 AM
No, not really:
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
June 20, 2014, 08:26:15 AM
It looks like multipool is gone.
I guess he didn't believe his luck would turn around after all. I'm pretty sure he didn't leave because of hurt feelings.
Given how loudly he claimed his faith in probability, his departure is strange. Shakespeare comes to mind, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
OOC, care to guesstimate his final luck? I think he ran for another 24 hours or so after your last analysis without finding a block. Of course, Doc could give exact stats if he chose to do so.
Hash on, pool buddies!
I guess he didn't believe his luck would turn around after all. I'm pretty sure he didn't leave because of hurt feelings.
Given how loudly he claimed his faith in probability, his departure is strange. Shakespeare comes to mind, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
OOC, care to guesstimate his final luck? I think he ran for another 24 hours or so after your last analysis without finding a block. Of course, Doc could give exact stats if he chose to do so.
Hash on, pool buddies!
June 20, 2014, 04:38:27 AM
Phillipma1975....
You really need to learn the definition of the following terms:
- merged mining
- solo mining
- mining pool
- multipool
It would really aid us all in trying to decipher your incoherent ramblings. I know that you think you're making sense. But you're not.
You really need to learn the definition of the following terms:
- merged mining
- solo mining
- mining pool
- multipool
It would really aid us all in trying to decipher your incoherent ramblings. I know that you think you're making sense. But you're not.
June 20, 2014, 03:26:18 AM
And expect to hear from me next time Koi hits a dry spell. Although I expect you'll both be conspicuously absent from the forum if that happens.
I can take it and I will still be here, but hopefully it does not happen until we are 2% of the pool. Let me know on those stats after you crunch the numbers. I will be interested to know (maybe you have some reason for me to "hear from you" now). As you have said, I am a moron that cannot do simple math so help me out here.
Hopefully, everyone will become the neighborhood watchers, so I would encourage you to call out anomalies and let OOC tell you that it is not likely (although his 8X is more than anyone can really stomach from someone over 10% of a pool). Hopefully, you do not go 15 more days to get to the point where OOC would agree "something is likely strange..."
I have absolute confidence that over the long run, KOI will solve the number of blocks consistent with our hash. Because we have tested the equipment we use and the software we use. Multipool? You cannot make that same assertion because you DO NOT KNOW.
I did not think you could do the stats you demanded to do on Koi. Or are you too lazy? Like I said, put up or STFU.
Why don't you give us the math on your claim that we all would make less if you left the pool? That should be interesting to learn for us all.
I do know - I know how stratum works, I know how share submission works. If our hashes are being accepted, things are working. If our largest miner had broken hardware, that would be less than 10% of our hashrate and would be enough to be detectable on other currencies.
Your hardware is tested, great. What happens if there's a brownout or surge at your data center and your chips are damaged? How would you know for sure they're still good? Do you really want to go down this road?
Hey, don't worry bro, because I've already made the decision to diversify our hashrate. You'll see it dropping soon. There's really no reason for me to bother trying to convince fucktards like you of anything.
June 20, 2014, 02:22:30 AM
And expect to hear from me next time Koi hits a dry spell. Although I expect you'll both be conspicuously absent from the forum if that happens.
I can take it and I will still be here, but hopefully it does not happen until we are 2% of the pool. Let me know on those stats after you crunch the numbers. I will be interested to know (maybe you have some reason for me to "hear from you" now). As you have said, I am a moron that cannot do simple math so help me out here.
Hopefully, everyone will become the neighborhood watchers, so I would encourage you to call out anomalies and let OOC tell you that it is not likely (although his 8X is more than anyone can really stomach from someone over 10% of a pool). Hopefully, you do not go 15 more days to get to the point where OOC would agree "something is likely strange..."
I have absolute confidence that over the long run, KOI will solve the number of blocks consistent with our hash. Because we have tested the equipment we use and the software we use. Multipool? You cannot make that same assertion because you DO NOT KNOW.
I did not think you could do the stats you demanded to do on Koi. Or are you too lazy? Like I said, put up or STFU.
Why don't you give us the math on your claim that we all would make less if you left the pool? That should be interesting to learn for us all.
June 19, 2014, 07:52:17 PM
Im not a native english speaker, may be I have to clarify.
What I mean is, that the best way to make our bitcoin investement a succsess is to attract people into it.
The discussion I saw recently here is doing the opposite.
Thats what I mean.
the technical question of how an attack on mining pools could occur and how to counter it should be done between pool operators and technicians/coders on a seperate issue and not done in a relatively open forum. It drives people away from bitcoin.
I believe that the bitcoin is a good investement because it will attract people with its unique features.
And as it is in the meantime a multi billion industry it is in the interest of all people involved to protect the system.
If someone work to destroy the confidence of the community in bitcoin and in that way destroying your investement, Goldman Sachs,Deutsche Bank, HSBC should be the suspects.
Joerg
What I mean is, that the best way to make our bitcoin investement a succsess is to attract people into it.
The discussion I saw recently here is doing the opposite.
Thats what I mean.
the technical question of how an attack on mining pools could occur and how to counter it should be done between pool operators and technicians/coders on a seperate issue and not done in a relatively open forum. It drives people away from bitcoin.
I believe that the bitcoin is a good investement because it will attract people with its unique features.
And as it is in the meantime a multi billion industry it is in the interest of all people involved to protect the system.
If someone work to destroy the confidence of the community in bitcoin and in that way destroying your investement, Goldman Sachs,Deutsche Bank, HSBC should be the suspects.
Joerg
You are correct since this thread and two other threads have pointed out a true danger to mining. So talking about this out in the open will make some people afraid of BTC and mining.
Unfortunately the problem is not if multipool is a villian or completely innocent.
The problem is an attack can be done and mining pools have not come up with a great solution to stop it.
I run gear on 3 BTC pools and on 2 LTC pools. I do it to spread the risk on an attack. Or a mistaken set of mining software.
This risk is why I ask still for the solo option on these bigger pools it will strengthen the BTC network.
Since a solo pool is 100 percent safe from this problem.
In a week the new s-3's come out 500gh units will be cheaper then ever with .8 watts a gh.
If I buy 5 I and run them in 5 pools. It will help me with the risk from this problem.
Or I can run on 4 pools and 1 as a solo miner.
Running the 5 units that way makes me safe from
a:big bad miner
b: big dumb miner
c: big unlucky miner
My biggest complaint is not that the attacks happen not the the attack is good bad or just unlucky.
It is that pool ops have multiple ways to deal with this and so far I can't convince a single operator to setup a solo setup.
If one did we could ask multipool (or any other suspected bad luck miner) run in it for a week.
To show us you really believe your gear works. Any of us can direct a small percentage of our hash at it. Since it can't be attacked with dud gear.
Now I want to explain solo mining in this way. if you have the gear in your hands paid for and it gets 2 watts or better per hash playing that gear in solo mining is like buying a 3 digit number and getting 1100-1400 to one odds.
We all know that buying a 3 digit number from a lottery pays 500 or 600 to one and the real odds are 1000 to one. it is how governments make money running it. we all know buying 1 ticket you almost never win.
But any one that has purchased a 3 digit number would prefer 1100 to 1400 to one odds rather then 500 to 600 to one.
Does anyone understand me when I say solo mining is like getting 1100 to 1400 to one on a 3 digit miner?
you should since it is the founding principle that allows merged pools to work.
or if I give you 1100 to 1 on a 3 digit number and let you have 1 number and go partners with 999 other guys each with a different number. you make a 100 dollar profit as a team. that is because you are a merged pool playing a game that is rigged for you to win.
It is why we want to run merged since most of us can not buy enough gear to solo and hit a block. even though the overall odds are in your favor.
It is really frustrating to get this across. a few solo pool options from good pools would help to spread the risk of
bad gear/bad miner/bad software. For now running solo would cost me a pc running 24/7/365 dedicated to be fast enough to stay with the solo gear. Plus running my mining gear. I do not want to do this as it kills my favorable solo mining odds since I run the server and the mining gear. thus my watts per hash is over 3 watts a hash.
June 19, 2014, 06:07:27 PM
Hello everybody
Im surprised that the recent discussion about multipool and the possibility of a share witholding attack
is fought like a battle without real clue.
I start mining with a block erupter in November 2013 and increased hash power with 4 more block erupters, a 8 GH Jalapeno and recently with a KNC Jupiter. All this equipment I bought used.
Since November I didnt solve a block with my small hash power, but earned about 1.2 BTC on Bitminter.
I have not the knowledge and technical abilities to check my miners if they are doing things like that or not.
But I think that this witholding shares attacks are performed fully unintentional because they are creating a loose lossse situation for the miner, the pool operator and the attacker.
So lets go back to the pollite and helpfull features of this forum and dont blame people for completely unproven and unlikely things.
lets hope for another good run of easy find blocks and if you really seeing in every co miner a competitor instead of a colleague you are ready for a solo mining career.
Keep the forum clean of this unproven conspiracy theories or found your own bitcoin sect.
I like bitminter and its pool operator particular for its helpfull attitude towards even the strangest questions. As long as it is newbie friendly it will attract new people. Keep it like this.
Calm Down
Joerg
Im surprised that the recent discussion about multipool and the possibility of a share witholding attack
is fought like a battle without real clue.
I start mining with a block erupter in November 2013 and increased hash power with 4 more block erupters, a 8 GH Jalapeno and recently with a KNC Jupiter. All this equipment I bought used.
Since November I didnt solve a block with my small hash power, but earned about 1.2 BTC on Bitminter.
I have not the knowledge and technical abilities to check my miners if they are doing things like that or not.
But I think that this witholding shares attacks are performed fully unintentional because they are creating a loose lossse situation for the miner, the pool operator and the attacker.
So lets go back to the pollite and helpfull features of this forum and dont blame people for completely unproven and unlikely things.
lets hope for another good run of easy find blocks and if you really seeing in every co miner a competitor instead of a colleague you are ready for a solo mining career.
Keep the forum clean of this unproven conspiracy theories or found your own bitcoin sect.
I like bitminter and its pool operator particular for its helpfull attitude towards even the strangest questions. As long as it is newbie friendly it will attract new people. Keep it like this.
Calm Down
Joerg
Finally, a post with some common sense.
June 19, 2014, 05:57:16 PM
And expect to hear from me next time Koi hits a dry spell. Although I expect you'll both be conspicuously absent from the forum if that happens.
I can take it and I will still be here, but hopefully it does not happen until we are 2% of the pool. Let me know on those stats after you crunch the numbers. I will be interested to know (maybe you have some reason for me to "hear from you" now). As you have said, I am a moron that cannot do simple math so help me out here.
Hopefully, everyone will become the neighborhood watchers, so I would encourage you to call out anomalies and let OOC tell you that it is not likely (although his 8X is more than anyone can really stomach from someone over 10% of a pool). Hopefully, you do not go 15 more days to get to the point where OOC would agree "something is likely strange..."
I don't have any problem with Koi's numbers. He appears to be doing rather well lately. That said, if he's so confident in his ability to find blocks at a rate above statistical average over long periods of time, one might wonder why he doesn't just skip pooled mining altogether and solo mine.
Jump to: