Topic: $13,000 bitcoins by the end of 2016? $120,000 by 2018? (golden ratio fractals) - page 7. (Read 13828 times)

 
 
Fucking fractals, man.  If (always an if) our large flat region does end up corresponding to that flat region in the comparative section, don't underestimate the titanic moves ahead of us - we may even see the fruition of sgbett's insane PID controller moves (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/prediction-next-spike-560000-14-oops-months-from-now-2017-update-800330) where the future of bitcoin price isn't a slow and steady exponential rise up... but an exponential rise until we hit a certain tipping point and then the entire world pours into bitcoin (and hopefully Monero by extension) in a techno-mania that makes the tulip bubble look like a bump on the road. 
 
It seems silly now, but when you start hearing about everyone around you getting rich, buying new houses, buying new cars... all because they bought this little thing called 'bitcoins' then don't underestimate the fiat exit rush that may happen.  The scary part is that bitcoin isn't anywhere *near* ready for that kind of volume or interest.

Sounds good to me. BTW I noticed that when you click play on that Fontas trading view link - we are totally following the predicted ghost lines.

 
  
Agreed, just like infinity.  Infinity can exist by the rules of logic, but I propose not by the rules of physics.  
  
This is why I don't believe in the "emptiness of space".  It also is another possible explanation for the 'missing' matter in the universe.  That empty space isn't so empty; it's just filled to the brim with something so much smaller than we can comprehend at the moment... perhaps this is even the answer to the Fermi Paradox itself: http://www.accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html  
  
In any case, we are getting slightly off topic.  Let's slowly try to return to dreams mocking the Boggleheads from our 37-story yachts.

I think that nothing (the null set) has to exist. Obviously discussing something as abstract as nothing is difficult without implying that nothing is something. Max Tegmark speculates that anything can exist mathematically exists physically. There are proofs that show how you can bootstrap all of mathematics from the null set. It makes sense in a weird way to me. If nothing exists then it exists outside the rules of physics (but not of logic) thus anything that can happen, does happen, and can be birthed by this nothing, so long as it's self consistent.

I like the cut of your jib, OP.

 
For now the statement is true.  Humans can only discover the rules of their universe and use them to transfer energy into different forms.  
  
In time, the strange principles of quantum mechanics and other yet-undiscovered sub-atomic level phenomena may see that statement invalidated.  
  
Personally, I predict that we will eventually realize that the idea of nothing is just as absurd as infinity.  It can't exist in any sensical system.  I wildly speculate that perhaps there is no such thing as 'nothing' in our universe, only smaller and stranger quantities of energy. (yes, I know what the planck length is - please don't lecture me; many learned men also knew of the universal aether at one point too).  

 
 
Yes, yes, you guys.  These technologies were slow evolutions of mathematics over the 20th and 21st century (the result of many astounding minds working on the problems) which culminated in these achievements.  However, sometimes for the sake of a statement's simplicity and elegance we have to leave out some details. 

The CryptoNote wikipedia page has an accurate[1] summarized timeline of these technologies:


[1] although Cryptonote may have been cooking since 2012 or before, there is no proof the first public CN coin (Bytecoin) was launched prior to Q4/2013.

I don't know about ring signatures and Monero but to be correct all of the technology that went into creating Bitcoin was available way before 2008. The genius of Satoshi was to put them all together!

 
  
One of the greatest flaws in the human brain is the inability to estimate the effects of the exponential function.  It is especially damning when that human finds himself inside of an exponential movement and needs to take action based on their estimation of some future value.  
  
It doesn't seem that the "wheat on the squares of a chessboard" would grow so fast either, but it does.  (I am of course referring to taking one grain of wheat and doubling it for every square on a chessboard.)
  
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256.  
  
"My God!" screams one researcher.  "It's value is going to be titanic soon!  It'll soon eclipse 100k and keep going to absurd values!"    
  
"What are you going on about?" another asks.  "That's mighty impressive it increased so fast from 1 to 512 but look - we're nine steps in and only at 512.  Perhaps we'll hit 10k and 100k eventually but don't be daft - it will take a while."  
  
Meanwhile, the values continue to rise at an exponential pace.  
  
1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384  
  
"Oh wow," the first remarks.  "Maybe you're right.  In just five steps it's gone up past ten thousand."  
  
And the exponential function continues.  
  
32768, 65536, 131072.  
  
It took nine whole steps to get to 512 in the first place, but only eight more after that to surpass 100,000.  This is the power of exponential functions - they move much much faster than you think.  After this the numbers move even faster - all the way up until there physically isn't any space left for them to grow.  After we broach 100,000 we find that millions and billions aren't far behind.  
 

What makes you think that we'll be able to reach $100K+ after 2020?? That's only possible if there are billions of dollars being pumped into Bitcoin by institutional investors. If you said $10K within 10 years, that might be somewhat realistic. $100K simply isn't.

In 5 years yes, that can be reached seeing that investors and banks alike are eyeing bitcoin and pouring some nice amount of money in bitcoin. Take also in account that people who are interested in bitcoin would likely buy some, helping the slow surge forward.

What do governments wanna do about it? Prohibit it? This never worked out in the past.If the masses should be of the opnion that actual financial system is screwed up they will find ways to put money in Bitcoin if they believe that this is the best alternative or choice.

I'm definitely agreeing with the possibility of 10k$+ price, it's definitely a realistic target. 100k$+... Maybe after 2020. But it would need a lot of money flawing in to reach that price obviously and I don't know if governments will let it happen.

What is your definition of worthless? 50 USD is still worth something and I don't ever see it go back there.. So 50% to become worthless is quite the statement..

Also, I don't see it as an all or nothing type of price change that is going to happen. We will probably see spikes, but the trend line will be going up slowly imo.

Great post

As I just posted on Facebook,

The best way to understand Bitcoin and Monero, and understand why they're important, is to try and reinvent them yourself. 

It's easy, right?  For bitcoin, just create digital money that no one person can control or counterfeit (decentralized), and that can be sent instantly across the world. 

Monero's just a little tougher.  Do all of the above, but ensure no one can track any of the transactions and no one can tell how much money anyone else has.   
 
These problems might sound simple on the surface, but the mathematics and computer science to do them weren't invented until 2008 (for bitcoin) and 2014 (for monero).  They are so much better than what we are using now, that it's not a question of 'if'  we'll move to these technologies as new world standards for money - it's a question of 'when'.

If you're curious about the "solutions" to these problems, I've included links to the white papers which describe the solutions.  Don't feel bad if they're a little over your head.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf     
 
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Bitcoin is not gold or housing or whatever other stable type of investment.  Its all or nothing you will see $10k by 2020 or it will be worhtless, its probably 50/50.  Those of us who see the promise are in those who dont are the many and are out.

yeah, there is Silbert's video interview out there where he posits that bitcoin price will go up 100 fold if just 5% of current gold value (7tril) transfers to bitcoin, nothing else required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOtgNhmNRm4

Yes, exactly my thought! What I have invested and what I have in my cold storage will stay there, either until we don't die or until we don't make it big like OP has suggested in his opening post. No other option remains for me. Simple as that!