Anyone try using CloudFlare to protect their p2pools? Would it work? Any measurable performance issues?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
I'm interested in that too.
Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 410. (Read 2591964 times)
March 24, 2014, 08:10:47 PM
I'm interested in that too.
March 24, 2014, 08:10:08 PM
Sorry, i did not try to sell you anything. 
My reference miner mined ca 3% more in p2pool (not even in my own node). to give here proofs is to much extra work for me. i had in every pool 2 BFL 60 GH Singles mining and payouts were following between 15.january and 15 march:
Ghash.io - 1.012 BTC
Eligius - 0.997 BTC
P2pool - 1.027 BTC
btcguild - 0.962 BTC
of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).
My reference miner mined ca 3% more in p2pool (not even in my own node). to give here proofs is to much extra work for me. i had in every pool 2 BFL 60 GH Singles mining and payouts were following between 15.january and 15 march:
Ghash.io - 1.012 BTC
Eligius - 0.997 BTC
P2pool - 1.027 BTC
btcguild - 0.962 BTC
of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).
Those are good numbers. But it doesn't prove much because luck in one month can vary quite a bit, and you didn't include NMC which is available from eligius (and btcguild).
I've said this before... but I'm trying it again.
I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.
Difficulty just changed.
Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.
I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.
Difficulty just changed.
Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.
thats good idea to do it, even if 2 weeks timeframe is too short for real comparison. you need in p2pool 3 days until your miner reach full payout height, in eligius it goes much faster.
and please just change the miners in one week (elegies to p2pool and other way) to get real numbers. hash rate of miners can seem to be same, but every miner is different, so changing them guarantees that both pools have equal chances.
Good idea. Let's see if I remember to do that.
I was hoping to go a whole month, or 2 difficulty cycles.. which is less than a month I guess, or longer.
M
March 24, 2014, 08:07:55 PM
it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
numbers? I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
M
Sorry, i did not try to sell you anything.
My reference miner mined ca 3% more in p2pool (not even in my own node). to give here proofs is to much extra work for me. i had in every pool 2 BFL 60 GH Singles mining and payouts were following between 15.january and 15 march:
Ghash.io - 1.012 BTC
Eligius - 0.997 BTC
P2pool - 1.027 BTC
btcguild - 0.962 BTC
of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).
I've said this before... but I'm trying it again.
I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.
Difficulty just changed.
Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.
M
I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.
Difficulty just changed.
Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.
M
thats good idea to do it, even if 2 weeks timeframe is too short for real comparison. you need in p2pool 3 days until your miner reach full payout height, in eligius it goes much faster.
and please just change the miners in one week (elegies to p2pool and other way) to get real numbers. hash rate of miners can seem to be same, but every miner is different, so changing them guarantees that both pools have equal chances.
March 24, 2014, 07:50:39 PM
I used to mine here at p2pool about six to nine months ago. I'm considering coming back and I have a couple of questions. I am using Ubuntu 12.04.
4: My latency is about .3s, that seems high should I be concerned about that and start tuning a little or is that acceptable?[/b]
Thanks,
GrapeApe
BTW: The conversation going on beneath my post is the same one that was going on six months ago just different people.....BORING
4: My latency is about .3s, that seems high should I be concerned about that and start tuning a little or is that acceptable?[/b]
Thanks,
GrapeApe
BTW: The conversation going on beneath my post is the same one that was going on six months ago just different people.....BORING
+1!! You said it dude - the same old argument, on & on, never stops. This is not a p2pool support thread anymore(?) - there is no support - just bickering about the same shit. It should be renamed the "I'm right - your wrong argument thread" instead.......
PS: 0.3 is OK dude
March 24, 2014, 06:57:18 PM
I've said this before... but I'm trying it again.
I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.
Difficulty just changed.
Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.
M
I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.
Difficulty just changed.
Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.
M
March 24, 2014, 06:45:47 PM
Anyone try using CloudFlare to protect their p2pools? Would it work? Any measurable performance issues?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
March 24, 2014, 06:08:14 PM
it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
numbers? I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
I don't know his numbers but I do know eligius hasn't had great luck lately either, so that may be part of it. Last year I was consistently at around 99% of max payout on eligius but over the past couple of months it is more like 97%. I'm probably below par on p2pool as well though, but I don't have an exact number. Somebody is getting all the luck in this network, but its not me. i plan to shift a small fraction of my hashrate to ghash as well, hopefully that will help smooth things out more.
if p2pool.info is accurate, p2pool is at 87% for 30 days and 89% for 90 days
according to my math, eligius is at 97% for 30 days and also 97% for 90 days
throw in pool wide NMC merged mining at eligius, as opposed to essentially solo mining it on p2pool, I'm not getting how p2pool could come out ahead.
M
March 24, 2014, 05:58:54 PM
it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
numbers? I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
I don't know his numbers but I do know eligius hasn't had great luck lately either, so that may be part of it. Last year I was consistently at around 99% of max payout on eligius but over the past couple of months it is more like 97%. I'm probably below par on p2pool as well though, but I don't have an exact number. Somebody is getting all the luck in this network, but its not me. i plan to shift a small fraction of my hashrate to ghash as well, hopefully that will help smooth things out more.
March 24, 2014, 04:51:23 PM
it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
numbers? I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
M
March 24, 2014, 04:37:20 PM
I used to mine here at p2pool about six to nine months ago. I'm considering coming back and I have a couple of questions. I am using Ubuntu 12.04.
1: Do I need to use a dummy wallet now that we have the disable wallet feature on bitcoin-qt or do I even need a wallet.dat file at all with the disable wallet command?
Edit: Well I answered my first question on my own I am using QT with no wallet.dat file so no dummy or any other needed.
2: I set a user/password in my bitcoin.conf file but when I try to use it with p2pool.py for example python run_p2pool.py -a 1blahblahblah --give-author 0.5 -u user -p password
I have it running with no user/pass set and I used bogus user/pass on my miner to connect to my node. Is this a security issue, have I configured something wrong?
3:I'm at about 280GH/s and cgminer keeps changing my difficulty (often) should I set a minimum diff setting and where do I do that? I know there was a way in the past I just can't remember.
Edit: I answered my 3rd question you just append +xxx to your user name for the miner pool credentials and it adjust the difficulty accordingly...
4: My latency is about .3s, that seems high should I be concerned about that and start tuning a little or is that acceptable?
Thanks,
GrapeApe
BTW: The conversation going on beneath my post is the same one that was going on six months ago just different people.....BORING
Edit: Well I answered my first question on my own I am using QT with no wallet.dat file so no dummy or any other needed.
2: I set a user/password in my bitcoin.conf file but when I try to use it with p2pool.py for example python run_p2pool.py -a 1blahblahblah --give-author 0.5 -u user -p password
I have it running with no user/pass set and I used bogus user/pass on my miner to connect to my node. Is this a security issue, have I configured something wrong?
Edit: I answered my 3rd question you just append +xxx to your user name for the miner pool credentials and it adjust the difficulty accordingly...
4: My latency is about .3s, that seems high should I be concerned about that and start tuning a little or is that acceptable?
Thanks,
GrapeApe
BTW: The conversation going on beneath my post is the same one that was going on six months ago just different people.....BORING
March 24, 2014, 03:59:06 PM
Hello all. Is there a list, somewhere, of the p2p servers set up, for Bitcoin and alt coins?
P2Pool Finder
March 24, 2014, 10:19:24 AM
payout stability of ghash.io, btcguild, eligius etc. is a myth.
The greater the proportion of the network hashrate a pool commands, the lower its variance will be.
That isn't a myth.
sure you get paid out with higher frequency, it does not mean that there is no variance.
Larger pools do have greater payout stability, due to lower variance.
March 24, 2014, 09:57:24 AM
payout stability of ghash.io, btcguild, eligius etc. is a myth.
The greater the proportion of the network hashrate a pool commands, the lower its variance will be.
That isn't a myth.
sure you get paid out with higher frequency, it does not mean that there is no variance.
sometimes p2pool does not make block several days and then makes 2 or 3 in wiry short time. daily payouts in other pools are day to day different too.
variance is a so to say "relative function" and depending what kind of timeframe you take as mirror.
it is not important how many payouts you have per day, week or month but its important how much BTC you get paid out in this timeframe. if you chose short timeframe you can speak about big variance. every longer timeframe that smaller variance. i don´t care (and for sure most of miners don´t) how often i get payouts, more important is how much i get paid out in the end.
of course if you have to sell your BTC daily, then it is easier to mine in some huge pool and enjoy this BTC or USD daily.
my variance i count per month and so p2pool did not disappoint me yet. monthly (income)variance speaks clear for p2pool.
of course it can be that small(er) miners have different experiences.
March 24, 2014, 09:24:51 AM
payout stability of ghash.io, btcguild, eligius etc. is a myth.
The greater the proportion of the network hashrate a pool commands, the lower its variance will be.
That isn't a myth.
March 24, 2014, 09:09:50 AM
I have read that P2P profits long term are greater, does this still hold true?
Nobody can answer that, since it depends so much on luck and other factors. With the luck taking a very long time to average out, so the other factors a are really hard to measure. Over the past few months p2pool has had fairly bad luck. Very recently luck has been a little better. The future, nobody knows.
However, I will say that the expected value of the p2pool payout method (if set to zero fees) is higher than the expected value of the eligius payout method for finite time. Maybe that is important to you.
I'm not sure that last statement about being higher payout than Eligius is accurate. You can put 0% donation into both, both pay transaction fees, and Eligius pays merged mining on NMC. Yes you can merge mine in p2pool, but you are solo merged mining, which is almost the same as solo mining BTC.
And when you throw in increasing variance with p2pool, I definitely think Eligius comes out ahead (which is why I'm there, not on p2pool).
M
it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
it looks like p2pool has a big variance, but in reality every pool has some variances. p2pool maybe does not find a block some days long and we speak already about "big loss and variance", but nobody recognizes when other pools with huge hash rate has daily payout drop of 30-40% and that sometimes several days.
payout stability of ghash.io, btcguild, eligius etc. is a myth. everyone has low payout phases and mostly this "lows" make payout in in the end (long terms) worse than it is in p2pool.
Those are my real experiences and not just what i am thinking.
March 24, 2014, 08:39:27 AM
Hmmmm....having all sorts of latency issues since upgrading to Bitcoin v9 & getting regular cpu spikes up to 60% - anyone else having problems? Done the right thing, uninstalled old, installed new from ppa, etc.........tried reinstalling........strange
Rinse, repeat:
Running Xubuntu 13.10 64bit - anyone else have latency issues with Bitcoind v9?
Anyone??
March 24, 2014, 07:22:09 AM
I'm not sure that last statement about being higher payout than Eligius is accurate. You can put 0% donation into both, both pay transaction fees, and Eligius pays merged mining on NMC. Yes you can merge mine in p2pool, but you are solo merged mining, which is almost the same as solo mining BTC.
I did not claim it has a higher payout. I claimed it has a higher expected value (a mathematical term similar to average) over a finite period of time (more precisely a finite number of shares). In fact they have the same expected value over an infinite time horizon, as far as I can tell.
Quote
And when you throw in increasing variance with p2pool, I definitely think Eligius comes out ahead (which is why I'm there, not on p2pool).
I agree eligius most certainly has lower variance and may be preferable for that reason. This is a different question than expected value in finite time.
There are other pools that also have higher expected value than eligius in finite time but also have lower variance (certainly much lower than p2pool and possibly lower than eligius though this is certainly not clear). It isn't my intent here to promote any particular pool so I won't name names. I'm just pointing out some differences in payout methods that may or may not matter to a particular miner.
BTW, solo mining has the exact same expected value as mining on a zero fee hop-proof pool. But obviously very different variance.
March 24, 2014, 07:14:46 AM
Let's posit that both pools have the same expected value for a share given infinite time.
Let's further posit that shares are proportional to time. This is not exactly true, but it is close. If you do not like this equivalence, then you may modify my original statement to be that the payout for p2pool is greater over a finite number of shares.
The payout for a share is made over at most N shares for p2pool. Once N is reached your expected payout is equal to the expected value of the share. The payout for that same share on Eligius is made over a potentially infinite number of shares (blocks). Thus for any future share > N, e(p2pool) has an expected payout value of 0 and Eligius has some expected payout value > 0. Sp when we reach N (and for any finite number of shares >=N), the expected value paid out by p2pool is greater than the expected value paid out by Eligius, because Eligius still has some remaining expected payments > 0 while p2pool does not.
For shares < N it isn't as clear. I'm ignoring that case. If your window is less than N your expected payout for Eligius may in fact be higher, I'm not sure.
I'm really not sure if this is not clear to you or if you would just like to see it stated more formally.
Let's further posit that shares are proportional to time. This is not exactly true, but it is close. If you do not like this equivalence, then you may modify my original statement to be that the payout for p2pool is greater over a finite number of shares.
The payout for a share is made over at most N shares for p2pool. Once N is reached your expected payout is equal to the expected value of the share. The payout for that same share on Eligius is made over a potentially infinite number of shares (blocks). Thus for any future share > N, e(p2pool) has an expected payout value of 0 and Eligius has some expected payout value > 0. Sp when we reach N (and for any finite number of shares >=N), the expected value paid out by p2pool is greater than the expected value paid out by Eligius, because Eligius still has some remaining expected payments > 0 while p2pool does not.
For shares < N it isn't as clear. I'm ignoring that case. If your window is less than N your expected payout for Eligius may in fact be higher, I'm not sure.
I'm really not sure if this is not clear to you or if you would just like to see it stated more formally.
March 24, 2014, 05:15:27 AM
However, I will say that the expected value of the p2pool payout method (if set to zero fees) is higher than the expected value of the eligius payout method for finite time.
Can you derive this for me? I've just spent a bit of the afternoon on it and I can't see it.First, let's ignore orphans, they affect both more or less equally, though how exactly they affect eligius is complex. It doesn't help refute the argument though.
The expected value of every share on p2pool (PPLNS) is exactly B/D (for some suitable scaling of B and D). This can be derived, and is likely is derived in one of Meni's posts.
The expected value of a share on eligius is (the product of an equivalent B/D and) the sum of an infinite series adding the probabilities that it is paid on this round plus the probability that it is paid on each future round. This series never goes to zero, so the terms beyond any finite time horizon always have a positive sum.
Not formal, but good enough?
I'm not sure about the way you're thinking about expected value of a share on Eligius.
You need to show that for any t < Infty E(p2pool share) > E(eligius share) and I don't think that's the case (or at least I couldn't see a way to derive it).
March 24, 2014, 05:01:25 AM
I have read that P2P profits long term are greater, does this still hold true?
Nobody can answer that, since it depends so much on luck and other factors. With the luck taking a very long time to average out, so the other factors a are really hard to measure. Over the past few months p2pool has had fairly bad luck. Very recently luck has been a little better. The future, nobody knows.
However, I will say that the expected value of the p2pool payout method (if set to zero fees) is higher than the expected value of the eligius payout method for finite time. Maybe that is important to you.
I'm not sure that last statement about being higher payout than Eligius is accurate. You can put 0% donation into both, both pay transaction fees, and Eligius pays merged mining on NMC. Yes you can merge mine in p2pool, but you are solo merged mining, which is almost the same as solo mining BTC.
And when you throw in increasing variance with p2pool, I definitely think Eligius comes out ahead (which is why I'm there, not on p2pool).
M
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