15btc transaction fee, big mistake - page 8.

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Quote from: Jhanzo on March 04, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

Quote from: ShrykeZ on March 04, 2016, 04:09:05 PM

Money laundering with fees? Doesn't really make much sense, the person cannot be sure what pool would mine the block and get the fees.

Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 04, 2016, 08:12:26 AM

Bob just includes the transaction in every block Bob attempts to mine and Alice doesn't send the TX to the network until Bob has found a block.

There's a small risk another miner will find a block at the same time, but really all bob needs is a way to communicate with Alice that Bob solved the block to trigger Alice to send the TX out to the network at the same time Bob releases his block to the network.

read the rest of the post and you'll probably understand.
this means that alice and bob is the only people who knows about the transaction until it confirms because alice won't relay it to the rest of the network. of course in this case it would mean that Bob have ties with F2Pool. but like I said, maybe. Wink

Interesting idea Grin

. Much easier ways to launder bitcoin of course. They'd have to do it multiple times to make it worth while, and that would look suspicious.

Jhanzo

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Quote from: ShrykeZ on March 04, 2016, 04:09:05 PM

Money laundering with fees? Doesn't really make much sense, the person cannot be sure what pool would mine the block and get the fees.

Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 04, 2016, 08:12:26 AM

Bob just includes the transaction in every block Bob attempts to mine and Alice doesn't send the TX to the network until Bob has found a block.

There's a small risk another miner will find a block at the same time, but really all bob needs is a way to communicate with Alice that Bob solved the block to trigger Alice to send the TX out to the network at the same time Bob releases his block to the network.

read the rest of the post and you'll probably understand.
this means that alice and bob is the only people who knows about the transaction until it confirms because alice won't relay it to the rest of the network. of course in this case it would mean that Bob have ties with F2Pool. but like I said, maybe. Wink

ShrykeZ

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Quote from: Jhanzo on March 04, 2016, 03:59:45 PM

Quote from: ShrykeZ on March 04, 2016, 03:50:02 PM

Ouch that is horrible, hope F2Pool return it and be good Samaritans. But that's unlikely to happen I guess. :\

maybe. what's odd is that so far nobody have come forward and ask F2Pool to kindly return the 15 btc or even a portion of it. we know that this have happened in the past and on half of it the miners were reasonable enough to return the fee.
maybe what AliceWonderMiscreations said is true and this is a money laundering. maybe.

Money laundering with fees? Doesn't really make much sense, the person cannot be sure what pool would mine the block and get the fees.

Jhanzo

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Quote from: ShrykeZ on March 04, 2016, 03:50:02 PM

Ouch that is horrible, hope F2Pool return it and be good Samaritans. But that's unlikely to happen I guess. :\

maybe. what's odd is that so far nobody have come forward and ask F2Pool to kindly return the 15 btc or even a portion of it. we know that this have happened in the past and on half of it the miners were reasonable enough to return the fee.
maybe what AliceWonderMiscreations said is true and this is a money laundering. maybe.

ShrykeZ

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Ouch that is horrible, hope F2Pool return it and be good Samaritans. But that's unlikely to happen I guess. :\

CasioK

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Quote from: SirLancelot on March 04, 2016, 03:40:42 PM

I suspect Satoshi's hand on this transaction.
Does he start Airdrop bitcoins to the pillars (miners) of bitcoin ecosystem? Anyway, what a day for a lucky miner....

I liked your imagination.
This type of accidental fees happened many times. When I was in dogecoin mining, a large fee (some 200k doges) included transaction block was mined by coinotron, then shared by contributed miners.
Like you said, that also was a airdrop, now I realize.

SirLancelot

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I suspect Satoshi's hand on this transaction.
Does he start Airdrop bitcoins to the pillars (miners) of bitcoin ecosystem? Anyway, what a day for a lucky miner....

7a7a

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Quote from: lixer on March 04, 2016, 03:32:43 PM

Bitcoiners should just avoid making this kind of silly (but costly) mistakes as then they need to pray to God (the only available option) to get it back their bitcoins.

yeah it should be like notification appears before the transaction atleast because i have seen many tx fees mistakes that make you feel for the other person feeling when he does have such a mistake

lixer

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Bitcoiners should just avoid making this kind of silly (but costly) mistakes as then they need to pray to God (the only available option) to get it back their bitcoins.

ebliever

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 04, 2016, 09:17:12 AM

Quote from: ebliever on March 04, 2016, 08:58:15 AM

For mainstream adoption this sort of thing needs to be effectively impossible.

People lose bitcoins in a lot of ways, see this topic: How many Bitcoins are lost forever?, this fee-mistake is just a fraction of what's lost in total.
So why would this be a problem for mainstream adoption? People have been losing cash money for centuries, and cash is still around.

Surely you can see how this is a problem for bitcoin adoption. The fact that people lose money in many ways doesn't make it any less painful. And this is a preventable cause, so let's prevent it.

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Well they can always call customer support and get the charges reversed... oh wait Sad

davinchi

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 04, 2016, 04:12:03 AM

Quote from: pedrog on March 03, 2016, 10:50:22 AM

Quote from: romero121 on March 03, 2016, 10:19:15 AM

This could never happen. Is there any possible way to get back those bitcoins which were considered as the transaction charge. Is anyone heard of such incident other than this?

It happened at least one time before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lb5my/asicminer_refunds_the_accidental_200_btc/

Wow! Great story! Some person attached 25,000$ worth of bitcoin as a fee to his transaction and then he gets a refund.

Like one of the comments says: "Friedcat (apparently the guy who did the refund) might qualify for early sainthood."

Friedcat was honest enough to refund the fee and it shows he is trustworthy. I know that nobody would have refunded 200 BTC but if it's a mistake, a person has to be kind enough to do it and in this case as well, I hope the miner of the
block refunds 15 BTC as it was clearly a mistake.

AliceWonderMiscreations

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 04, 2016, 09:17:12 AM

Quote from: ebliever on March 04, 2016, 08:58:15 AM

For mainstream adoption this sort of thing needs to be effectively impossible.

People lose bitcoins in a lot of ways, see this topic: How many Bitcoins are lost forever?, this fee-mistake is just a fraction of what's lost in total.
So why would this be a problem for mainstream adoption? People have been losing cash money for centuries, and cash is still around.

The standard bitcoin-core client prevents this kind of mistake. Other clients may not be as wisely coded though, and I agree it should be in the consensus protocol.

EdenHazard

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Quote from: franky1 on March 02, 2016, 06:36:45 PM

https://blockchain.info/tx/6fe69404e6c12b25b60fcd56cc6dc9fb169b24608943def6dbe1eb0a9388ed08

someone know who have that transaction? 178.62.211.162 that ip address from netherland,i wonder how about this transaction,is that amount transacted arrive to wallet fully,or lost because that fee,i never see any fees as big like that. someone can explain me how can that transaction have so big fee?

ronaldinho_07

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Well when i read and say the link ,i thinked no way this has been spent for free ,makes no sense?Is that a kind of test from the developers not announced ?Why would someone throw bitcoin away as its worth 400 and may achive and will go ahead it,sure a mistake and a refund may happen ,but the refund thing were something i believe were impossible at bitcoin,but in this case they refunded the fee and not the transaction soo sounds fair.

lite

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15 bitcoin fees that hurts, that's the reason i don't customize my fees lol i pay the default fees set by the electrum wallet.

cefen6777

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thats crazy, i have never seen something like that, i guess the sender was kinda sad after he sent it

LoyceV

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Quote from: ebliever on March 04, 2016, 08:58:15 AM

For mainstream adoption this sort of thing needs to be effectively impossible.

People lose bitcoins in a lot of ways, see this topic: How many Bitcoins are lost forever?, this fee-mistake is just a fraction of what's lost in total.
So why would this be a problem for mainstream adoption? People have been losing cash money for centuries, and cash is still around.

ebliever

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1036

Assuming this was a mistake, I'll echo what others have said here: For mainstream adoption this sort of thing needs to be effectively impossible. Regular folks need clients that simply won't allow this kind of mistake, at least without a series of "Are you sure? Really sure? Really really sure?" questions and/or "Go to Tools/Options/Fees, uncheck boxes for this and that..." type activity.

There is no 800 number you can call to save you with bitcoin. We can hope some miner somewhere does the right thing and returns funds in an apparent case like this, but can't count on it.

AliceWonderMiscreations

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Quote from: Pursuer on March 04, 2016, 03:04:44 AM

Quote from: AliceWonderMiscreations on March 03, 2016, 08:01:10 PM

I'm wondering if this is money laundering.

Alice has dirty bitcoins that can link him to illegal activity.

Bob is a miner.

Bob keeps adding the TX to the blocks he is trying to solve. As soon as he solves the block, he notifies Alice so the TX goes to the network and Bob releases the block.

It looks like Bob got the TX from the network. But the dirty coins are destroyed.

Bob then sends Alice the equivalent value (less a fee) using existing coins or using the coins from the block reward to several addresses controlled by Alice.

Now both Alice and Bob are cleared of any scrutiny and the laundering is complete.

this case was most probably a mistake in the code they were using which sent big fees.
but your theory is interesting but it doesn't sound right. because if you want to launder money you will try to cover your tracks
in this case when Alice sends her dirty bitcoins to Bob and includes a big fee, it is so obvious what they are doing besides doing it a couple of times to a miner called Bob will put Bob in law enforcement watchlist and following the coins going into his blocks and out of his known addresses will lead them to Alice too.

Alice doesn't have to send them to bob.

Alice can create a transaction send a small amount to a random address neither care about and just include a large TX fee.

Bob just includes the transaction in every block Bob attempts to mine and Alice doesn't send the TX to the network until Bob has found a block.

There's a small risk another miner will find a block at the same time, but really all bob needs is a way to communicate with Alice that Bob solved the block to trigger Alice to send the TX out to the network at the same time Bob releases his block to the network.

Then it looks like Bob got the TX from the network if forensics is done because Alice has sent the TX out to the network.

There's no way to prove any collusion between Alice and Bob through the blockchain and the dirty coins are replaced with fresh coins.

Topic: 15btc transaction fee, big mistake - page 8. (Read 12683 times)