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Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam? - page 54. (Read 123107 times)

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  


Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

  Except in our case, the burden of proof lies nither with the nay sayers or the optimists. It is of the creator to present, and thus far he has, atleast in pretty pixel form....
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  


Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  


Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....
hero member
Activity: 561
Merit: 500
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  


Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
Well and what about the lobby shots? What's the explanation for them?
staff
Activity: 4242
Merit: 8672
Except this time people have found the original version of the pictures...
I mean it could be real regardless, but what are the odds?

Huh? So they reused some case photographs. Thats hardly indicative of deception.  Is newegg a scammer because they use manufacturer provided shots of some products? Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  



Except this time people have found the original version of the pictures...

I mean it could be real regardless, but what are the odds?

No, actually they have not.  The fact that they use an available OEM case vs building their own actually makes it more believable to me. 

We have a photo of the board in the case.  Now if you can find the same exact photo with a different board in it, same background then you are on to something.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  



Except this time people have found the original version of the pictures...

I mean it could be real regardless, but what are the odds?
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  


staff
Activity: 4242
Merit: 8672
The lofts are locked and require an access card.  There is no intercom or anything, either.

No room/apt/suite number is listed on the website anyway, even if I could get in by tailgating or something.

I thought Luke had said they answer their phones. Call 'em up and ask when you can swing by.  I think it would be reasonable to say that if you confirm their legitimacy lots of people will order  (so be sure to ask for a good cut :-P ). 
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
The lofts are locked and require an access card.  There is no intercom or anything, either.

No room/apt/suite number is listed on the website anyway, even if I could get in by tailgating or something.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Oh, I was looking at the schematic on their website.  NM then!

So here's the deal - if they have this (obviously) physical prototype (at the least) or actual potential product... let me walk across the street and see it and/or take pictures of it first hand.

This would go a long way to quelling any fears people have about it being vaporware and would take about 5 minutes of time for everyone involved.  At least we'd know there is a physical product - whether or not it performs as described is another issue entirely.


You should seriously go and knock on their doors. Must be done randomly and dont post on here when you're coming by.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 564
An FPGA or structured ASIC would already have an etched heatspreader.
Well, yes, quite. There's definitely something very fishy about the lack of labelling.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Oh, I was looking at the schematic on their website.  NM then!

So here's the deal - if they have this (obviously) physical prototype (at the least) or actual potential product... let me walk across the street and see it and/or take pictures of it first hand.

This would go a long way to quelling any fears people have about it being vaporware and would take about 5 minutes of time for everyone involved.  At least we'd know there is a physical product - whether or not it performs as described is another issue entirely.

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Looks great except the chips. Something. strange.  Possibly blurred to mask their idents or custom built and requested to be blanks?
I've personally taken pictures of the internals of a good many embedded boards. I don't notice anything abnormal about this one.

So are you saying you actually took this picture yourself?

Also, not necessarily definitive, but that board in the picture does not match the PCB schematic at all.

  Umm, it matchs this exactly;  Edit; or nearly exactly, since it is possible some minor changes could have been made.

  
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
Looks great except the chips. Something. strange.  Possibly blurred to mask their idents or custom built and requested to be blanks?
I've personally taken pictures of the internals of a good many embedded boards. I don't notice anything abnormal about this one.

So are you saying you actually took this picture yourself?
No. Just other devices (EFIKA MX, many various cable modems, ...)
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Looks great except the chips. Something. strange.  Possibly blurred to mask their idents or custom built and requested to be blanks?
I've personally taken pictures of the internals of a good many embedded boards. I don't notice anything abnormal about this one.

So are you saying you actually took this picture yourself?

Also, not necessarily definitive, but that board in the picture does not match the PCB schematic at all.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
You guys are hillarious.

An FPGA or structured ASIC would already have an etched heatspreader.

A fully custom ASIC would be in the range of millions of dollars.  So a couple guys living above a restaurant working for a corporation which isn't registered in the state got a million dollar run of a custom ASIC just for bitcoin mining and they just hapen to kill their yields by not marking any of the chips.  

Every chip would be etched even prototypes.  Period.  It helps in yield optimization.  Every square mm on a wafer is valuable.  A company may find their overall yield is 92% but in the upper right corner of the wafers on line #7 the yield is 28%.  Finding and fixing the cause could add millions to the bottom line. No way you are going to discover that without accurately tracking each chip from masking all they way through final production and analyzing all your failures.

So I say again "You guys are hillarious".  A company which can afford a custom ASIC run decided to save a quarter penny by not laser etching them (which would be part of any contracted run to begin with).  Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 561
Merit: 500
They are heatspreaders. It kinda make sense not to pay for lasering text on them if you are ordering a test batch.

  Yea, cost would be a very good reason. thanks. Wish they'd get to showing some live tests of hashing........

Live testing? How is a nonexistent company going to produce a real product?
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