Pages:
Author

Topic: 20 articles on 'Bitcoin is broken', researchers warn' doesn;t move price? why? (Read 3114 times)

hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
Their theories don't stand up to scrutiny.
If you mine a block but then delay the news so you can secretly work on another one, you risk getting orphaned as someone else sneaks in ahead of you. Working on unconfirmed blocks is pure gambling that kills your hash-power.

If you secretly buy out all the miners, being a benevolent controller who never reveals himself is likely to be more financially rewarding than attempting some destructive publicity stunt like a double-spend attack. In an unusual move, there seems to be a tendency towards less corruption as political power grows. Huh

Even if someone with non-financial motives wanted to destroy Bitcoin, they could probably do it, but the cat's so far outside of the bag that it's on the other side of the river.

..But who cares. As they say: buy the rumour, sell the news.
legendary
Activity: 888
Merit: 1000
Monero - secure, private and untraceable currency.
Listen to what Vitalik the wise man says:

"No honest (or semi-honest) miner would want to join a selfish pool," he suggested. "Even if they do have a small incentive to [join], they have an even greater incentive to not break the Bitcoin network to preserve the value of their own Bitcoins and mining hardware."

And this smells the most like a paid jewish FUD.
legendary
Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
Yes, if you are at all familiar with market psychology, you would know that very often supposed bad news causes the market to react in exactly the opposite of what you would expect.  You saw that most recently with the Silk Road bust and your seeing it now with the supposed "bitcoin is broken" theme.  In fact, many people in the stock markets of the world measure market sentiment and try to buy when people are most pessimistic and sell when optimism is high.  Buy when blood is flowing in the streets, in other words.

True market tends to react the opposite of what would be expected about news.. But for the SR bust, I think it was a good thing for Bitcoin, as media now cant associate Bitcoin to drug in direct relation.  This SR bust just prove Bitcoin are way cleaner than it was described by so many article.
legendary
Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
Media FUD.  
The point is this is known an not worth a worry for now..

Medias, having no more SR fud to spread about Bitcoin, they just jumped in on something else that can make a show, as they are all in the business for making money selling pub, so they try to spread spectacular news, to bring reader to their pub.. Most of them, most of the time have facts wrong, errors in numbers/quantities, and true journalistic news a quite rare today.. not so much research, verification.  

IMO, the price rise is just the begining of a long long run up, as more peoples understand how much Bitcoin is a revolution, comparable to many other technological revolution, and imo it's an understatement.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Dumb economists ignore human action and incentives. Just want to model everything. You have to look at social effects, too, because Bitcoin is a community. Even if the selfish miner attack did somehow work, people would just boycott it and/or move to a new fork. Social behavior isn't in this man-child's model.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005
Chances are that it was just a sterile academic trying to make a name for himself.

Well, if you can easily see that the contents of the media articles are at best shallow and at worst utter bullshit, you shouldn't be so quick to accept their characterizations of the researchers themselves at face value.  Even some people here are working on implementing and testing how such an attack would work and (presumably) how to respond to it if it did.

The reason this isn't a huge problem (and why it hasn't affected price) isn't that it doesn't exist, but that if anyone did try to do it they'd a) be caught pretty quickly and b) there would be a rapid response.  Part of why there'd be a rapid response is that people are poking at it looking for potential attacks and (one hopes) having countermeasures already in place if they're ever used.
hero member
Activity: 634
Merit: 500
The reason the price hasn't dropped is because after ~4.5 this scenario has not yet developed even though it would have been intensely profitable.

If it was going to happen, it should have already. Also, the price will react accordingly if/when this actually starts to occur.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
This time's rally is driven by Chinese, and whoever spread the FUD this time was a bit too western centric and it didn't manage to spread the FUD in China. FUD fail. FUDster can now watch the price keep going up and bite his cheeks for selling everything.

Hmm, so one theory could be this guy who published the article, was paid for by someone with deep pockets to buy in.


Chances are that it was just a sterile academic trying to make a name for himself.

If there's one thing I've learned - it's that paid shills do exist on the internet and in academic circles, and in significant number, as has been proven by multiple FOIA requests and leaked documents. But on the other hand, the supply of "useful idiots" is unimaginably greater! So the chances that these academics were actually paid to spread FUD is incredibly small. They were just like "Hey let's write about this attack on Bitcoin" without realizing that it has already been discussed and dismissed, 3 years ago, and even with its infeasibility, changes are continually being considered for future releases (and for miners themselves) that even further diminish its feasibility.

But really, it's amazing how many people read the article, believed it at face value without any further research, and are now quoting the article's introductory paragraph on ZH comments as if it is gospel and an eternal "debunk" of all things bitcoin. I would think these people should have learned their "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" lesson the first time they fell for an Onion article...
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
This time's rally is driven by Chinese, and whoever spread the FUD this time was a bit too western centric and it didn't manage to spread the FUD in China. FUD fail. FUDster can now watch the price keep going up and bite his cheeks for selling everything.

Hmm, so one theory could be this guy who published the article, was paid for by someone with deep pockets to buy in.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
This time's rally is driven by Chinese, and whoever spread the FUD this time was a bit too western centric and it didn't manage to spread the FUD in China. FUD fail. FUDster can now watch the price keep going up and bite his cheeks for selling everything.
Agreed.
If the news somehow hit CCTV, no one could imagine what would happen....
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
This time's rally is driven by Chinese, and whoever spread the FUD this time was a bit too western centric and it didn't manage to spread the FUD in China. FUD fail. FUDster can now watch the price keep going up and bite his cheeks for selling everything.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
The most important point I think is the sybil attack. The selfish miners create a shitload of dummy miners. If the selfish miners have found one block, and then someone else finds another block, the selfish use their enormous amounts of dummy miners to ensure that their chain propagates faster, and becomes the most popular, even though it is released (just slightly) after the other block. Without this attack that means they win even though they "should" lose the race, the attack doesn't work.
full member
Activity: 188
Merit: 102
Yes, if you are at all familiar with market psychology, you would know that very often supposed bad news causes the market to react in exactly the opposite of what you would expect.  You saw that most recently with the Silk Road bust and your seeing it now with the supposed "bitcoin is broken" theme.  In fact, many people in the stock markets of the world measure market sentiment and try to buy when people are most pessimistic and sell when optimism is high.  Buy when blood is flowing in the streets, in other words.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
I don't claim to know the technical details of why the article in the OP doesn't work, although I've seen lots of people talking about that in the past.

Can somebody shed some light? Why won't that "selfish miner" strategy work?

I haven't looked in detail, but the idea seems to just be a 51% attack that you do in secret -- not very likely. The very premise of "don't communicate your bitcoin find to other miners" makes no sense, as your bitcoins are only bitcoins (and are only redeemable) if they are in the public blockchain.

the point of the article is that they release their valid nonce with a delay, so they have a head start for the next block, so they have a larger chance of finding the next block and so one...

But indeed, it is almost impossible to keep it as a secret: all other pools will notice it!

I think it will work to the benefit of a small pool during a  very good streak of luck since they can put some extra effort immediately after the streak ends, by keeping the chain private for sometime.
Anyways selfish miners employ pool-hopping already Wink I read the paper cursorily and it looks like an academic exercise because it's difficult to model luck and variation.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
According to what I have collected, the article seems to be based on an assumption of Satoshi's assumption, while the assumed assumption is actually Satoshi's conclusion, that the network is safe as long as there are more honest miners than dishonest ones, yet this is not something assumed to be known to a miner in Satoshi's paper, which is the case in this article.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
It's actually not 20 articles...it's one article being stupidly repeated over and over in different ways.

No matter how hard they try to push this garbage down our throats it doesn't make this fantasy story any more plausible.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000
Want privacy? Use Monero!
I don't claim to know the technical details of why the article in the OP doesn't work, although I've seen lots of people talking about that in the past.

Can somebody shed some light? Why won't that "selfish miner" strategy work?

I haven't looked in detail, but the idea seems to just be a 51% attack that you do in secret -- not very likely. The very premise of "don't communicate your bitcoin find to other miners" makes no sense, as your bitcoins are only bitcoins (and are only redeemable) if they are in the public blockchain.

the point of the article is that they release their valid nonce with a delay, so they have a head start for the next block, so they have a larger chance of finding the next block and so one...

But indeed, it is almost impossible to keep it as a secret: all other pools will notice it!
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
RMBTB.com: The secure BTC:CNY exchange. 0% fee!
I don't claim to know the technical details of why the article in the OP doesn't work, although I've seen lots of people talking about that in the past.

Can somebody shed some light? Why won't that "selfish miner" strategy work?

I haven't looked in detail, but the idea seems to just be a 51% attack that you do in secret -- not very likely. The very premise of "don't communicate your bitcoin find to other miners" makes no sense, as your bitcoins are only bitcoins (and are only redeemable) if they are in the public blockchain.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000
Want privacy? Use Monero!
The reason there haven't been panic sells is because - and I can think of no other explanation - the majority of bitcoin investors and traders are intelligent enough that they don't automatically believe everything they read on the internet at face value.

I am truly surprised, and OP, you might have trouble believing this. But it is the only feasible explanation I can think of.

Another option would have been that "bitcoin really IS broken and people are just ignoring it and trying to make money b/c 'greed.' " But that is impossible since it is widely known that it is the research paper that is broken, not the bitcoin protocol.


If you're anything like me, you read the article, read core dev's response, read the coding community's response, read the non-coding community's response to the coding community's response, looked at the market's response, determined that the authors of the paper were pretty much full of shit, and went on about your merry business. Had there been any legitimate threat I may have reduced my bitcoin position, according to the severity of the threat, either into fiat or some altcoins which did not share that security issue. Or I would buy something nice for myself.



any links would help Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
If you're anything like me, you read the article, read core dev's response, read the coding community's response, read the non-coding community's response to the coding community's response, looked at the market's response, determined that the authors of the paper were pretty much full of shit, and went on about your merry business.

yup
Pages:
Jump to: