20 BTC bounty for first AT *atomic cross-chain transfer* with Script clone - page 3.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: dexX7 on November 14, 2014, 04:28:46 PM

To clarify: you are not talking about Bitcoin anymore, but Bitcoin + op_checkstate, correct?

Correct - it is only possible for AT to work with the new op code (but at least only the one is required).

AT can indeed "spend" its inputs as because they are OP_CHECKSTATE scripts such as this:

Code:

INPUT:
 hash160(1xxATxxYptzC5a7p9obc2SLMPS148G2Qxg) OP_CHECKSTATE (original 100)

Thus there is no signature required to be verified with OP_CHECKSTATE only the actual "state" of the AT VM needs to match each peers own calculated state (and outputs that are created by the AT are verified to match the same set of outputs that each peer determined).

dexX7

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I started to run the samples and this is very interesting.

I can imagine to run the scripts and use the block chain as data source, and I can also imagine how "passive" data could be integrated, say for example it is observed that "A sends x BTC to B", thus function xyz is triggered (...), but I'm not really sure how AT would be able to do something else than "watch and observe"? A scheme that involves script and the revealing of secrets, as described by TierNolan, might somehow be combined with this, but let me rephrase:

The cross-chain document explicitly mentions "refunding the AT's balance", so I'm wondering: is it intended to trade "virtual" balances which represent Bitcoin within the scripting environment or real Bitcoin (or some-else-coin)? If it's the later, I'd be very curious and would be happy to hear more about it.

Quote

For the Bitcoin "script" side of things I have come up with this ...

To clarify: you are not talking about Bitcoin anymore, but Bitcoin + op_checkstate, correct?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Actually - it is about as simple as that - but it must be a mainnet that isn't so weak it just gets destroyed due to an ASIC attack or the like overnight (just because that would simply not look good and I do reserve the right to decide who gets the bounty).

Understand that the "atomic cross-chain transfer" needs to be done *using AT* (so you can't use any other method to do it) and also that the AT and AT-API source code created to accomplish this must be made open source (the rest of the coin's source code isn't really of any concern to me).

The point of the bounty is basically to get open source code that can be "easily dropped into any existing Bitcoin clone" for using AT (thus providing an easy to implement alternative to Ethereum or Codius).

If you want to do it with a complete crap coin then perhaps discuss it with me via PM (as maybe I can link things up with a better coin and the reward could be shared as I have been approached by some clones that have a decent rep but their devs are not likely to work on this until next year).

dansmith

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I'm somewhat confused about this thread's title. The title makes it seem like all one has to do is to fork bitcoin/litecoin and start a new blockchain with AT bolted on on top of it. But reading the comments made me doubt that.
Is it correct that in order to claim the bounty, one not only has to come up with the code for atomic cross-chain transfer but also convince the existing coin's miners/nodes to adopt the changes?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: rlh on November 06, 2014, 08:08:16 AM

Hey CIYAM, I would be very interested in attempting this bounty but I need a bit more info. Specifically, do you have a simple (as can be) document that outlines how to get AT connected to BTC?

Okay - so the main document to help with the AT machine itself is http://ciyam.org/at/at.html and the C++ prototype is here: http://ciyam.org/at/_at.cpp.html.

For the Bitcoin "script" side of things I have come up with this: http://ciyam.org/at/at_script.html.

The other key document is the AT API which is here: http://ciyam.org/at/at_api.html.

Again I am happy to help explain things to interested parties and yourself or others are welcome to send me a PM to get my Skype id if you'd like to be able to chat with me directly.

Understand that the bounty is not there so that "I do all the work" so you are only going to get answers to relevant questions (rather than *code*). If I had the spare time I'd code this myself but I am working 14 hours per day currently on the CIYAM project (and not being so young I do need to get at least 8 hours of sleep and some exercise every day).

rlh

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Hey CIYAM, I would be very interested in attempting this bounty but I need a bit more info. Specifically, do you have a simple (as can be) document that outlines how to get AT connected to BTC?

I understand what you are doing, but I haven't dug deep enough into the connecting end portion of BTC to know how to use this.

Bottom line, is there a barebones document that goes from setup to "Hello World" within AT and BTC? I think something along those lines could help expedite the creation of services.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Bounty has been upped to 20 BTC now.

Saffron has announced their interest to implement AT but not until next year so there is still a great opportunity for a talented dev to pick up this bounty before the end of this year!

wizzardTim

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Reality is stranger than fiction

Quote from: CIYAM on October 29, 2014, 10:01:18 AM

Quote from: wizzardTim on October 29, 2014, 09:51:43 AM

I am keen on programming (Software Engineer) but I'm afraid I do not have the needed time available.. Sad

Perhaps have a quick look at this: http://ciyam.org/at/at_script.html to gauge how difficult the task would be.

Ok thanks

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: wizzardTim on October 29, 2014, 09:51:43 AM

I am keen on programming (Software Engineer) but I'm afraid I do not have the needed time available.. Sad

Perhaps have a quick look at this: http://ciyam.org/at/at_script.html to gauge how difficult the task would be.

wizzardTim

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Reality is stranger than fiction

Quote from: CIYAM on October 29, 2014, 09:44:40 AM

Quote from: wizzardTim on October 29, 2014, 09:42:58 AM

Did anyone express interest yet? e.g. an altcoin dev?

Yes - I have been contacted privately by a couple but no-one seems to have committed themselves to this yet - so you are welcome to join in if you are keen.

I am keen on programming (Software Engineer) but I'm afraid I do not have the needed time available.. Sad

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: wizzardTim on October 29, 2014, 09:42:58 AM

Did anyone express interest yet? e.g. an altcoin dev?

Yes - I have been contacted privately by a couple but no-one seems to have committed themselves to this yet - so you are welcome to join in if you are keen.

wizzardTim

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Reality is stranger than fiction

Did anyone express interest yet? e.g. an altcoin dev?

Come-from-Beyond

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Newbie

Quote from: ?? on ??

Are you planning to look into whether AT works or not (as proposed) or is the debatable use of a single word your only concern? Undecided

Debatable use of a single word is my only concern because it (un)intentionally confuses people who know what "atomic" means. I'm not going to read AT paper because of a much weaker definition of "atomic". Codius already implemented such the scheme and AT doesn't offer anything above that.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: CIYAM on October 28, 2014, 09:30:59 AM

Just to make things clear "atomic" does not imply ACID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACID) as that *word* it is only *one part of the normal idea for RDMBS txs" (there are *four* words in the acronym for a reason).

The AT "atomic" transfer does satisfy the "atomic" requirement that a transfer should be *all or nothing* but of course this is a blockchain environment not a single server so some "edge cases" (clearly described in http://ciyam.org/at/at_atomic.html) do exist.

Well, this makes my previous post irrelevant (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9354368).

On "atomicity" - a successful eclipse attack would lead to the money belonging to one of the parties only (it will get double amount while the counterparty will get none). This shows that the proposed scheme is not atomic.

vbcs

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AT - Automated Transactions - CIYAM Developer

There is also a working testnet nxt version using the old API. You can see some info here http://5.196.1.215:5876/ATs.html (it is just for testing purposes atm) and the testnet needs to be updated to comply with the new API

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: dzimbeck on October 28, 2014, 10:51:42 AM

And this is being implemented in Quora?

The Qora implementation will be happening very soon.

We might first prove the atomic use case just using some testnets though.

dzimbeck

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Ahh sorry I should have noticed some of the earlier comments. This is fantastic work. Congratulations. The only way I thought this was possible before was applying a malleability patch/some sort of fork or using refunds.

And this is being implemented in Quora?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: dzimbeck on October 28, 2014, 10:39:33 AM

I thought AT you were abbreviating Atomic transactions. Can you please send me a link?

You can see the entire docco from here: http://ciyam.org/at

and for the "atomic" use case in particular here: http://ciyam.org/at/at_atomic.html

dzimbeck

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I thought AT you were abbreviating Atomic transactions. Can you please send me a link?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: dzimbeck on October 28, 2014, 10:28:51 AM

malleability applies to any transaction, not just multisig. Because the miners can just slightly alter the tx without invalidating the script.

You don't understand AT at all - it is not a Bitcoin script.

Please re-read TierNolan's post and review the AT use case and then *think again*.

All you can do with *malleability* is *change the sig* and that doesn't affect AT (as the atomic use case does not depend upon that at all).

For that to be an issue you'd need AT to *care about the sig* and *it simply doesn't* (the refund address is hard-coded and is not dependent upon the tx sig at all).

Fundamentally TierNolan's approach requires B to sign A's *refund* (and vice-versa) but AT's approach *does not* (so although the atomic AT was *based* upon TierNolan's idea it is not the same as it).

Topic: 20 BTC bounty for first AT *atomic cross-chain transfer* with Script clone - page 3. (Read 20174 times)

Topic: 20 BTC bounty for first AT atomic cross-chain transfer with Script clone - page 3. (Read 20174 times)