http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eocuqE3Y4Tg&feature=player_detailpage#t=104s
Bitcoin mentioned in this context here as well.....
Topic: 2012-07-25 various - (regulator hits 'brazillian bitcoin investment group') (Read 8154 times)
July 30, 2012, 05:31:55 AM
July 30, 2012, 03:09:46 AM
This is just showing that Brazil is not going to be the place to do bitcoin related business, I don't believe that other first world countries will be following suit. This seems like a lazy decision by some official "what? bitcoin, Reals whatever, you need a 'licence' to continue".
This example illustrates why Brazil is rank 126 (out of 183) on the World Bank's Ease of Doing Business Index.
Red tape and regulatory overzealousness in Brazil is horrible. Doing any kind business there is more difficult than in English speaking countries.
On the other hand, the market is less saturated, and there are more gaps and inefficiencies that present great opportunities for making money. And Brazilians have a real skill for dodging the overbearing regulators.
That's why am I am certain bitcoin related business won't disappear from Brazil.
July 29, 2012, 01:06:02 PM
This is a common stategy of overbearing governments (China being a prime example) where nearly everything is illegal (officially, meaning there is a law against that action which could be applied), the only way to get anything done is to bribe or pull strings. Often there are laws there which are almost never applied, except in the situation where the state wants to take someone down. For example, did you know that it is illegal to have pre-marital sex in mainland China? It's never applied (as you can imagine there are plenty of people sleeping around here), but it's there, ready to be used when it needs to be.
This is crypto-totalitarianism. It's mostly everywhere, unfortunately.
July 29, 2012, 04:32:30 AM
Another post on the subject:
- http://silvervigilante.com/bitcoin-attacked-by-brazils-securities-commission-under-the-control-of-international-finance/
- http://silvervigilante.com/bitcoin-attacked-by-brazils-securities-commission-under-the-control-of-international-finance/
July 28, 2012, 12:02:17 PM
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich Nietzsche
“Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen” - Friedrich Nietzsche
“Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
“In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
July 28, 2012, 11:54:03 AM
I really can't compare, just didn't want our persecution overlooked :-)
So, Cesar, the original project is done or no? And there is a new project with no details released yet?
So, Cesar, the original project is done or no? And there is a new project with no details released yet?
July 28, 2012, 05:53:00 AM
Firstly I'm based in the UK (right now in China but that is temporary), which suffers a lot less from corrupt officials than the likes of Brazil
Oh but there was no corruption in this. At least if you define corruption as "not respecting the law", this was not corrupt at all. The law was strictly and actually efficiently applied. And that's the whole problem.
Contrary to popular belief, the main problem with countries like Brazil are not the corrupt officials. These actually give people some air to breath. They allow you, through some bribe, to avoid the worst. It's precisely those who efficiently apply the laws, like this Otávio Yazbek, that fuck us all. (Of course, officials who ignore all crappy laws and let people live their lives in peace without requiring any bribe are preferable to the corrupt ones, but these are unfortunately quite rare...)
Either what I'm doing is legal or illegal, running a stock exchange for a virtual curreny, good luck proving thats illegal.
Not wanting to be negative, as I sincerely appreciate what you've done (GLBSE), but I'm pretty sure they can find tons of laws you're breaking.
I think you're putting yourself in danger by operating GLBSE without hiding your identity. I'd like to be wrong on this one though.
This is a common stategy of overbearing governments (China being a prime example) where nearly everything is illegal (officially, meaning there is a law against that action which could be applied), the only way to get anything done is to bribe or pull strings. Often there are laws there which are almost never applied, except in the situation where the state wants to take someone down. For example, did you know that it is illegal to have pre-marital sex in mainland China? It's never applied (as you can imagine there are plenty of people sleeping around here), but it's there, ready to be used when it needs to be.
However I believe that the concerns about me running GLBSE are well placed, I still don't think that it's large enough to warrant official attention in the UK at least just yet. I believe my next step will be to separate the deveopment of GLBSE and it's running. With the development being tied to my public identity.
Did you mean to say America?
Probably America too, but it's much more obvious in places like China, take for example the definition of a state secret in China, anything that is said in public that is not approved by the government. Only applied when someone has pissed off the wrong person in the communist party.
July 28, 2012, 03:17:29 AM
Firstly I'm based in the UK (right now in China but that is temporary), which suffers a lot less from corrupt officials than the likes of Brazil
Oh but there was no corruption in this. At least if you define corruption as "not respecting the law", this was not corrupt at all. The law was strictly and actually efficiently applied. And that's the whole problem.
Contrary to popular belief, the main problem with countries like Brazil are not the corrupt officials. These actually give people some air to breath. They allow you, through some bribe, to avoid the worst. It's precisely those who efficiently apply the laws, like this Otávio Yazbek, that fuck us all. (Of course, officials who ignore all crappy laws and let people live their lives in peace without requiring any bribe are preferable to the corrupt ones, but these are unfortunately quite rare...)
Either what I'm doing is legal or illegal, running a stock exchange for a virtual curreny, good luck proving thats illegal.
Not wanting to be negative, as I sincerely appreciate what you've done (GLBSE), but I'm pretty sure they can find tons of laws you're breaking.
I think you're putting yourself in danger by operating GLBSE without hiding your identity. I'd like to be wrong on this one though.
This is a common stategy of overbearing governments (China being a prime example) where nearly everything is illegal (officially, meaning there is a law against that action which could be applied), the only way to get anything done is to bribe or pull strings. Often there are laws there which are almost never applied, except in the situation where the state wants to take someone down. For example, did you know that it is illegal to have pre-marital sex in mainland China? It's never applied (as you can imagine there are plenty of people sleeping around here), but it's there, ready to be used when it needs to be.
However I believe that the concerns about me running GLBSE are well placed, I still don't think that it's large enough to warrant official attention in the UK at least just yet. I believe my next step will be to separate the deveopment of GLBSE and it's running. With the development being tied to my public identity.
Did you mean to say America?
July 27, 2012, 11:39:50 PM
Firstly I'm based in the UK (right now in China but that is temporary), which suffers a lot less from corrupt officials than the likes of Brazil
Oh but there was no corruption in this. At least if you define corruption as "not respecting the law", this was not corrupt at all. The law was strictly and actually efficiently applied. And that's the whole problem.
Contrary to popular belief, the main problem with countries like Brazil are not the corrupt officials. These actually give people some air to breath. They allow you, through some bribe, to avoid the worst. It's precisely those who efficiently apply the laws, like this Otávio Yazbek, that fuck us all. (Of course, officials who ignore all crappy laws and let people live their lives in peace without requiring any bribe are preferable to the corrupt ones, but these are unfortunately quite rare...)
Either what I'm doing is legal or illegal, running a stock exchange for a virtual curreny, good luck proving thats illegal.
Not wanting to be negative, as I sincerely appreciate what you've done (GLBSE), but I'm pretty sure they can find tons of laws you're breaking.
I think you're putting yourself in danger by operating GLBSE without hiding your identity. I'd like to be wrong on this one though.
This is a common stategy of overbearing governments (China being a prime example) where nearly everything is illegal (officially, meaning there is a law against that action which could be applied), the only way to get anything done is to bribe or pull strings. Often there are laws there which are almost never applied, except in the situation where the state wants to take someone down. For example, did you know that it is illegal to have pre-marital sex in mainland China? It's never applied (as you can imagine there are plenty of people sleeping around here), but it's there, ready to be used when it needs to be.
However I believe that the concerns about me running GLBSE are well placed, I still don't think that it's large enough to warrant official attention in the UK at least just yet. I believe my next step will be to separate the deveopment of GLBSE and it's running. With the development being tied to my public identity.
July 27, 2012, 07:06:39 PM
July 27, 2012, 06:12:54 PM
But that imply real money. We just are playing a game where i send you a message in bitcoin and you send me back it, with our funny software, no one can arrest us for that. Or they will arrest me if i shoot someone in a fps?
July 27, 2012, 04:20:54 PM
Well, either we are not getting all the details or the regulators have a shitstorm ahead of them.
What shitstorm?
They've sent a sort of "cease and desist" letter to Leandro, who, not wanting to get screwed, complied.
He told us he did not complied. Do you have a source where he says otherwise?
He removed the thread from the forum. He started another one asking for loans, because asking for loans and paying interest isn't illegal
July 27, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
Well, either we are not getting all the details or the regulators have a shitstorm ahead of them.
What shitstorm?
They've sent a sort of "cease and desist" letter to Leandro, who, not wanting to get screwed, complied.
He told us he did not complied. Do you have a source where he says otherwise?
July 27, 2012, 02:52:41 PM
Well, either we are not getting all the details or the regulators have a shitstorm ahead of them.
What shitstorm?
They've sent a sort of "cease and desist" letter to Leandro, who, not wanting to get screwed, complied. The fund is over, and that's it. There's nothing "ahead of them".
My point is if Leandro hasn't broken any Brazilian laws then he shouldn't back down, even with a "cease and desist" letter.
If he was in the USA then definitely drop the word "Investment" from the name, in my opinion, or change it to something silly like cyberinvestments, vaporshares, whatever...
"The corrupt fear us. The honest support us. The heroic join us." - Bitcoin Magazine
July 27, 2012, 11:38:53 AM
Well, either we are not getting all the details or the regulators have a shitstorm ahead of them.
What shitstorm?
They've sent a sort of "cease and desist" letter to Leandro, who, not wanting to get screwed, complied. The fund is over, and that's it. There's nothing "ahead of them".
July 27, 2012, 11:13:25 AM
[WTS] Brazilian Warcraft CyberInvestment Group Shares
[WTS] Brazilian Warcraft CyberInvestment Group - Weapons Index ETF
[WTS] Brazilian Warcraft CyberInvestment Group - WoW Gold Trakkers
[WTS] Brazilian Starwars CyberInvestment Group - Lightsaber Futures
[WTS] Brazilian Diablo III CyberInvestment Group - Auction House Binaries
Coming soon, virtual funds for every MMO in existence and websites hosted from every sovereign nation just to keep you busy CMV!
Well, either we are not getting all the details or the regulators have a shitstorm ahead of them.
[WTS] Brazilian Warcraft CyberInvestment Group - Weapons Index ETF
[WTS] Brazilian Warcraft CyberInvestment Group - WoW Gold Trakkers
[WTS] Brazilian Starwars CyberInvestment Group - Lightsaber Futures
[WTS] Brazilian Diablo III CyberInvestment Group - Auction House Binaries
Coming soon, virtual funds for every MMO in existence and websites hosted from every sovereign nation just to keep you busy CMV!
Well, either we are not getting all the details or the regulators have a shitstorm ahead of them.
July 27, 2012, 10:51:52 AM
running a stock exchange for a virtual curreny, good luck proving thats illegal.
Way to go ! July 27, 2012, 10:45:23 AM
Not wanting to be negative, as I sincerely appreciate what you've done (GLBSE), but I'm pretty sure they can find tons of laws you're breaking.
I think you're putting yourself in danger by operating GLBSE without hiding your identity. I'd like to be wrong on this one though.
+1
Until we throw governments down we should be as anonymous as possible.
July 27, 2012, 10:28:15 AM
Firstly I'm based in the UK (right now in China but that is temporary), which suffers a lot less from corrupt officials than the likes of Brazil
Oh but there was no corruption in this. At least if you define corruption as "not respecting the law", this was not corrupt at all. The law was strictly and actually efficiently applied. And that's the whole problem.
Contrary to popular belief, the main problem with countries like Brazil are not the corrupt officials. These actually give people some air to breath. They allow you, through some bribe, to avoid the worst. It's precisely those who efficiently apply the laws, like this Otávio Yazbek, that fuck us all. (Of course, officials who ignore all crappy laws and let people live their lives in peace without requiring any bribe are preferable to the corrupt ones, but these are unfortunately quite rare...)
Either what I'm doing is legal or illegal, running a stock exchange for a virtual curreny, good luck proving thats illegal.
Not wanting to be negative, as I sincerely appreciate what you've done (GLBSE), but I'm pretty sure they can find tons of laws you're breaking.
I think you're putting yourself in danger by operating GLBSE without hiding your identity. I'd like to be wrong on this one though.
July 27, 2012, 10:17:16 AM
I think the key to this whole event it this
Quote
Leandro was not hiding his identity.
, this is where he went wrong, or at least he didn't think it would matter. Had his identity been kept a secret then they could have done nothing, not knowing who he was they would have been unable to prosecute, or even send him a letter with angry words.I agree. I prevented him of the danger, actually. Something tells me a part of him wanted this to happen, but this is just my speculation.
I think we know the direction that needs to be taken regarding the identity of people doing things in bitcoin land.
Yeah, but there's always the trust issue. If you go anonymous, people will not trust you, and they have a good reason to do so. If you expose your identity, the state boot crushes you. Complicated dilemma.
Really I think this is a case of the right people not being bribed.
The irony of the thing is, Leandro operation was so small, that any meaningful bribe would be orders of magnitude larger than the entire fund.
And I'm not even that sure a bribe would have worked (if this was a large enough fund). Everything was being done publicly. Unless you also manage to bribe most of the press not to publish anything, but how long can you hold? You'd need very deep pockets, what would make the fund not that worthy to investors due to its costs.
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