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Topic: 2012-07-25 various - (regulator hits 'brazillian bitcoin investment group') - page 2. (Read 8155 times)

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
So a government does the only sensible thing and treats Bitcoin as money or dare I say "virtual currency" and this is an attack on Bitcoin by a "parasitic" government. I do not think so. For many of us that is good news.

They've forbidden a group of people from making money together. No fraud or crime had happened. Leandro was not hiding his identity.
In what universe can such prohibition be good news??

If they decide to apply all their stupid and corrupt laws to bitcoin as they apply to "their money", they'll just make the bitcoin ecosystem almost as awful as the traditional financial system.

Maybe you should read this: http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/11/air-guitars-and-bitcoin-regulation.html

I think the key to this whole event it this
Quote
Leandro was not hiding his identity.
, this is where he went wrong, or at least he didn't think it would matter. Had his identity been kept a secret then they could have done nothing, not knowing who he was they would have been unable to prosecute, or even send him a letter with angry words.

I think we know the direction that needs to be taken regarding the identity of people doing things in bitcoin land.

Really I think this is a case of the right people not being bribed.

Doesn't that concern you in regards to GLBSE? You're also not anonymous. Far from it.

This is something I've also thought about and I don't think I'm in the same boat as this gentleman for a number of reasons.

Firstly I'm based in the UK (right now in China but that is temporary), which suffers a lot less from corrupt officials than the likes of Brazil (and especially China). Either what I'm doing is legal or illegal, running a stock exchange for a virtual curreny, good luck proving thats illegal.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
So a government does the only sensible thing and treats Bitcoin as money or dare I say "virtual currency" and this is an attack on Bitcoin by a "parasitic" government. I do not think so. For many of us that is good news.

They've forbidden a group of people from making money together. No fraud or crime had happened. Leandro was not hiding his identity.
In what universe can such prohibition be good news??

If they decide to apply all their stupid and corrupt laws to bitcoin as they apply to "their money", they'll just make the bitcoin ecosystem almost as awful as the traditional financial system.

Maybe you should read this: http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/11/air-guitars-and-bitcoin-regulation.html

I think the key to this whole event it this
Quote
Leandro was not hiding his identity.
, this is where he went wrong, or at least he didn't think it would matter. Had his identity been kept a secret then they could have done nothing, not knowing who he was they would have been unable to prosecute, or even send him a letter with angry words.

I think we know the direction that needs to be taken regarding the identity of people doing things in bitcoin land.

Really I think this is a case of the right people not being bribed.

Doesn't that concern you in regards to GLBSE? You're also not anonymous. Far from it.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
So a government does the only sensible thing and treats Bitcoin as money or dare I say "virtual currency" and this is an attack on Bitcoin by a "parasitic" government. I do not think so. For many of us that is good news.

They've forbidden a group of people from making money together. No fraud or crime had happened. Leandro was not hiding his identity.
In what universe can such prohibition be good news??

If they decide to apply all their stupid and corrupt laws to bitcoin as they apply to "their money", they'll just make the bitcoin ecosystem almost as awful as the traditional financial system.

Maybe you should read this: http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/11/air-guitars-and-bitcoin-regulation.html

I think the key to this whole event it this
Quote
Leandro was not hiding his identity.
, this is where he went wrong, or at least he didn't think it would matter. Had his identity been kept a secret then they could have done nothing, not knowing who he was they would have been unable to prosecute, or even send him a letter with angry words.

I think we know the direction that needs to be taken regarding the identity of people doing things in bitcoin land.

Really I think this is a case of the right people not being bribed.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
this is an attack on Bitcoin by a "parasitic" government

That someone is telling others adults to stop their voluntary exchanges is just a classic move of the parasites that (try to) rule us, and in any way should be considered "normal" (although nowadays most people find it normal that someone can tell other adults to stop doing business with one another, what a sad world we live in...).
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
How did they suspend your investment?  Huh


Quote from: Brazilian CVM
Stop that! Or we'll say stop again!!

It's more like:

Quote from: Brazilian CVM
Stop that! Or we'll force you to pay R$5.000,00 (~250BTC) per day of disobedience!
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Lol, a government attacking our funny little game? Nonsense, we made (ok i know i did nothing) our game, we play it and they now tell us to stop?

Why are you laughing? They already made them stop. Leandro had to close his funds if he doesn't want to be forced to pay thousands in fines and eventually even be kidnapped.

Next thing will be what, Brazil attacking EVE Online? World of Warcraft? They too have VIRTUAL MONEY
Hell, in EVE they too invest and get paid a % interest! Go Brazil, suspend EVE now!!!!!! Omg a friend of mine invested some eve money in a corporation building spaceships, is that illegal?  Cheesy

Don't give them too much ideas!
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
So a government does the only sensible thing and treats Bitcoin as money or dare I say "virtual currency" and this is an attack on Bitcoin by a "parasitic" government. I do not think so. For many of us that is good news.

They've forbidden a group of people from making money together. No fraud or crime had happened. Leandro was not hiding his identity.
In what universe can such prohibition be good news??

If they decide to apply all their stupid and corrupt laws to bitcoin as they apply to "their money", they'll just make the bitcoin ecosystem almost as awful as the traditional financial system.

Maybe you should read this: http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/11/air-guitars-and-bitcoin-regulation.html
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
CVM isn't quite government. It's an autarchy.

Rule yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism

Yes, it isn't the government itself but, it is directly linked to it... "Works for it"...

Sorry... My mistake...
hero member
Activity: 931
Merit: 500
CVM isn't quite government. It's an autarchy.

Rule yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
This is just showing that Brazil is not going to be the place to do bitcoin related business, I don't believe that other first world countries will be following suit. This seems like a lazy decision by some official "what? bitcoin, Reals whatever, you need a 'licence' to continue".

Quite the opposite!!

Now, every single company in Brazil will want Bitcoins!! Because, now, Bitcoin is a Security for the Brazilian Government.

I just LOL a lot!!
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
Not as a currency, but CVM just classified Bitcoin as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_(finance)
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
This is what Leandro tells me via email:

Quote
Hello Leandro,
Very unfortunate with what I just heard! Will the recent incident with CVM affect the bitcoins I have with you?

Best,
Anthony

Quote
No effects!

More a few days, the site will be launched!!

Any questions, I am here!

Hugs.

L.

Quote
So what exactly did CVM charge you with? Did someone report your fund?

Anthony

Quote
No!

They did find on bitcointalk fórum!!!! Sad

There is a gov big brother here in Brazil!

Friend, be the first to know!!!

http://bitcoinrain.com/

Did you see?

L.

Quote
Bitcoin Rain looks nice, curious to what it will look like Smiley Did they mandate that you cannot say that you operate out of brazil?

Quote
I cant say that this group exists. I cant announce this site on Brazil.

Sucks!

L.

Quote
your biggest market was brazil! what will happen to your investors from brazil?

Quote
They can make investments on new site.

Only me cant make announce on Brazil! Smiley

L.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
So a government does the only sensible thing and treats Bitcoin as money or dare I say "virtual currency" and this is an attack on Bitcoin by a "parasitic" government. I do not think so. For many of us that is good news.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
Never underestimate the craziness of governments and their presumption to have to regulate everything and forbid what they don't like.

legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
Lol, a government attacking our funny little game? Nonsense, we made (ok i know i did nothing) our game, we play it and they now tell us to stop? Next thing will be what, Brazil attacking EVE Online? World of Warcraft? They too have VIRTUAL MONEY
Hell, in EVE they too invest and get paid a % interest! Go Brazil, suspend EVE now!!!!!! Omg a friend of mine invested some eve money in a corporation building spaceships, is that illegal?  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
This is an investment fund only if bitcoin is recognized as money by the parasites that be.

True this is a very interesting case Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1004
@ Leandro:

What was the official reason given for closing your operation down?

He had no authorization to operate investment funds, basically. At least that's what I've seen.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
@ Leandro:

What was the official reason given for closing your operation down?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Someone noted in a article, that CVM (the regulator) now has two choices:

Admit that bitcoin is currency (the first country in the world doing that!)

or say that bitcoin is NOT currency (and thus they cannot punish Leonardo)

Third choice: threat Leandro. Him not being insane, closes his fund. CVM doesn't bother to say anything more.

Plus, them officially recognizing bitcoin as a form of money would not be good at all, IMHO.
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