2012-10-21 Warren Mosler about Bitcoin - page 2.

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: oseido on October 27, 2012, 10:33:22 AM

I believe that bitcoin is a revolutionary money system for citizens, but i dont believe that can to be used for legal tender

God save us from legal tender, state control, and taxes.
BTW: I would not call "modern" the theory that the state can print money. There are lots of historical examples. None of them ended well as far I know, even if in the short them someone made miracles printing state money. Hitler for example.

n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: lonelyminer (Peter Šurda) on October 27, 2012, 06:44:14 AM

Quote from: Rothbard

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

If Mosler said he does not know enough about Bitcoin to have a meaningful opinion, he would have made a much better impression on me. Rather, he made a bunch of implicit assumptions and thus appeared to affirm his ignorance.

A good test of whether someone is really exceptional or a faker, is whether they ever use two simple phrases: "I don't know" and "I screwed up".

Real geniuses (not just in academia but any field, sports, music, whatever) know they are geniuses and 3rd party approval is irrelevant to their intrinsic value, so they can admit fallibility and incompleteness without consequences.

Fakers know their entire existence and prestige is based on manufactured public opinion and grandiose titles. And so they are permanently afraid of admitting any personal flaws or lack of domain knowledge, lest it lead to deeper questioning of the mirage they have so carefully built.

Mr. Mosler is great example of the latter category. And so are most politicians.

oseido

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 0

Is very difficult for me try to explane my economic idea in english, but the only italian person that have try to understanding and explain the moder monetary fiat system is a journalist called "Paolo Barnard" that have write a paper in english called " The Gravest Crime"

http://democraziammt.info/docs/the-gravest-crime-paolo-barnard.pdf

In this paper hi explain how make a state whit full employment, full Welfare, full education, better infrastructure, growing productivity for its citizens.

Please take a lock.

I believe that bitcoin is a revolutionary money system for citizens, but i dont believe that can to be used for legal tender...but my opinion could be wrong

nobbynobbynoob

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Annuit cœptis humanae libertas

You cannot trust any of these neokeynesian clowns, as you rightly say. In fact, some of the goons in government aren't even Keynesian, they're worse than that: they just believe in tax, borrow, spend, full stop, regardless of the prevailing conditions.

As far as these types are concerned, it is clear that Gideon Gono is their hero, and here it is from the proverbial horse's mouth: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-16/head-zimbabwe-central-bank-explains-qe3

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

I expect that when the current debt-based fiat money system collapses (soon), MMTers and other neokeynesian lunatics will have their heyday and will go mainstream. I am sending them my best wishes until they do not try to touch BTC, gold and silver, and free mobility of capital.

quote of the day: "intelligent people fear inflation, especially the kind where people cannot afford to buy food, which is the big killer of economies and countries, and then there is usually a war with somebody, and the whole thing is a Big Freaking Bankrupted Mess (BFBM)."
The Mogambo Guru
http://mogamboguru.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-valuable-valuable-clue-as-to-what-to.html

lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)

donator

Activity: 544

Merit: 500

Quote from: oseido on October 26, 2012, 03:08:41 AM

So...if Mosler have not study bitcoin and hi's answer is no good, please , remember first that hi is and remain one great economist .

Mosler forgot that markets choose money based on transaction costs. Practically all economic schools agree on this, yet they don't recognise it when it hits them in face.

He also spoke about price collapsing as being relevant for demand for bitcoin, but ignored the evolution of liquidity (normally, liquidity influences transaction costs more than the price changes, in particular if the good is not used as a unit of account, Paul Krugman even wrote two papers about this). On the other hand, there is no readily available information on liquidity analysis of Bitcoin that I know of, other than the one I'm working on and that's going to be in my upcoming book, Economics of Bitcoin.

These are elementary mistakes. Now, let me quote Rothbard:

Quote from: Rothbard

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

If Mosler said he does not know enough about Bitcoin to have a meaningful opinion, he would have made a much better impression on me. Rather, he made a bunch of implicit assumptions and thus appeared to affirm his ignorance.

DublinBrian

full member

Activity: 197

Merit: 100

Quote from: oseido on October 27, 2012, 05:08:51 AM

A state without the possibility to create (not lend!) money for spend and taxes the people whit your fiat money, isn't a sovereign state. Italy is not more a sovereign state, since it entered in the European Money System.

When the state prints money, they spend it on state employees.

The private sector doesnt receive any of this new money. In fact, the private citizen gets poorer because the price of goods and services increases.

Your state money-printing is a sophisticated trick for state parasites to steal from the productive private sector.

nobbynobbynoob

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

Annuit cœptis humanae libertas

States can't be trusted to mint money either, unless it's gold or silver.

The American founding fathers knew their Stuff.

oseido

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 0

I think that there is a lot of confusion about the MMT economy theory.
“Modern Money Theory” or “The Kansas City Approach,” builds on the work of Abba P. Lerner, John Maynard Keynes, Hyman P. Minsky, Wynne Godley and other important figures of the past.
My opinion is that "Modern Money Theory" is the only way to retake the monetary sovereignty lost with the ECB system. ECB have imposed a not-sovereign currency (euro) to all state member of EU; and the possibility to strike coin to belong to only from the European Central Bank (arbitrarily) , and not when a state ask it. But the true problem is that European Central Bank arbitrally decide to who "lend" money. This is a nightmare for the european member state. A state without the possibility to createand (not lend!) money for spend and taxes the people whit your fiat money, isn't a sovereign state. Italy is not more a sovereign state, since it entered in the European Money System. I suggest to all people to read the official website of University of Missouri-Kansas City (UMKC) http://cas.umkc.edu/ and the blog where all most important mmt theorist whriting http://neweconomicperspectives.org/p/about.html

Sorry for my bad english.

Giancarlo Algieri

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: oseido on October 26, 2012, 03:08:41 AM

Hi bitcoin world community.

Mi name is Giancarlo Algieri, and i'm the man that in the video do the question about bitcoin. I'm an Italian mmt activist from the democraziaMMT italian movement. I think that Warren Mosler is a great man and a big mind. It have made the modern money theory and this economic school is the last way for my country to exit from the economic abyss rappresented from EuroZone. In italy the situation is very bad. No Monetary Sovereignty (rappresented from the euro currency) have made : no work, no right, no hope...and economy is close to collapsing. Argentina in the 2002 was desperated, and mmt have do a miracle. The umkc university have do a great work, and in italy, The Journalist "Paolo Barnard" have write a paper that explain modern money theory to my people, and have organize in italy 2 of the most big economic summit of the world in february and october 2012 (1200 people cad)

So...if Mosler have not study bitcoin and hi's answer is no good, please , remember first that hi is and remain one great economist .

Tnx

Giancarlo Algieri, MMT activist.
Economic Summit -"NON ERAVAMO I PIIGS, TORNEREMO ITALIA" - Rimini -ITALY - 20/21-10-2012

Thanks for asking Mosler that question, his shallow and dismissive answer was enlightening.

Have you considered the concept of free market money for saving Italy? Any small province in Italy could begin with trading with their own currencies for example., irrespective of what the ECB dictates.

The monopolistic nature of the modern money is what creates the massive market distortions, under/over supply, instability and etc.

http://monetaryfreedom.org/ (click on the "Resources" link to read more)

Good luck.

Dusty

hero member

Activity: 731

Merit: 503

Libertas a calumnia

Hello Giancarlo,
Mosler wants a kind of money to be printable as much as he wish, so he will always dismiss and despise Bitcoin as it's his worst nightmare.

Bitcoin is a technology born with the express intent to crush movements like MMT, which aims to bring the economy to Zimbabwe style :-)

(Mugabe is applying MMT theory... you judge his success)

oseido

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 0

Hi bitcoin world community.

Mi name is Giancarlo Algieri, and i'm the man that in the video do the question about bitcoin. I'm an Italian mmt activist from the democraziaMMT italian movement. I think that Warren Mosler is a great man and a big mind. It have made the modern money theory and this economic school is the last way for my country to exit from the economic abyss rappresented from EuroZone. In italy the situation is very bad. No Monetary Sovereignty (rappresented from the euro currency) have made : no work, no right, no hope...and economy is close to collapsing. Argentina in the 2002 was desperated, and mmt have do a miracle. The umkc university have do a great work, and in italy, The Journalist "Paolo Barnard" have write a paper that explain modern money theory to my people, and have organize in italy 2 of the most big economic summit of the world in february and october 2012 (1200 people cad)

So...if Mosler have not study bitcoin and hi's answer is no good, please , remember first that hi is and remain one great economist .

Tnx

Giancarlo Algieri, MMT activist.
Economic Summit -"NON ERAVAMO I PIIGS, TORNEREMO ITALIA" - Rimini -ITALY - 20/21-10-2012

AsymmetricInformation

member

Activity: 115

Merit: 10

Woah woah don't freak out everyone...jeeze anyone who raises concerns about our project is insta-shunned, its madness I say.

He is actually just restating the Mises Regression Theorem (we all love Mises, right?)....the 'seed value' Mosler is looking for (ie the "final demand" or "the thing that you can only buy with BTC and nothing else"), exists in several places, namely low-cost/instant international payments, unfreezable accounts, inflation-proof, etc.

So the final demand would be for like a hypothetical "Bitcoin Co. International Payment Service Coupon" or whatever that is (somewhat confusingly) supplied BY Bitcoin (the software) and can ONLY be paid for with Bitcoin (the currency). He was even humble enough to say "which I've been unable to identify"...ie he would change his mind if he DID identify it.

I happen to think Mosler and his MMT are completely ridiculous, but the ridiculousness isn't expressed in the excerpt given here.

imho

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

He's a theorist .... not a practitioner.

So far his theories don't look all that 'famous'. But if people feel like giving him their 'real' money to speak, let him have it.

hazek

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Explodicle on October 24, 2012, 02:59:31 PM

Quote from: Gabi on October 23, 2012, 04:12:44 PM

Oh that was in Italy. Didn't even know that. Meh, in Italy and guess what? Tons of idiocies.

Maybe when his economic predictions are wrong, they'll throw him in jail! Roll Eyes

His economic predictions weren't wrong, the politicians just didn't do enough of what he prescribed, that's all!

Explodicle

hero member

Activity: 950

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Gabi on October 23, 2012, 04:12:44 PM

Oh that was in Italy. Didn't even know that. Meh, in Italy and guess what? Tons of idiocies.

Maybe when his economic predictions are wrong, they'll throw him in jail! Roll Eyes

Gabi

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1008

If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

I'll buy it for 11.61$!

knight22

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

--------------->¿?

Quote from: FreeMoney on October 23, 2012, 03:03:04 PM

I'll do it, I'll volunteer to hold these 'worthless' credits on my computer. Eat that Mosler.

+1

Oh wait! I can't! Mine worth about 11.60$ each...

HorseRider

donator

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1001

This Warren seems stupid.

beckspace

hero member

Activity: 931

Merit: 500

Quote from: istar on October 23, 2012, 01:48:17 PM

Its amazing how someone so "famous" can be so utterly ignorant and downright stupid. Simply stunning.
I would not pay that guy the price of his pocket book to hear his advice.
In 10 years this will be gold Cheesy

Quote from: Dusty on October 23, 2012, 01:59:17 PM

The ignorance and stupidity of that guy is abysmal.
Or maybe he's just doing his job.

He's an expert in Charlatanism, I mean, Chartalism.

Topic: 2012-10-21 Warren Mosler about Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 5594 times)