Topic: 2013-12-12 Wired - U.S. Government Nastygram Shuts Down One-Man Bitcoin Mint - page 3. (Read 6183 times)

I am wondering if that is legal or not.

Some months ago the bitcoin foundation received a letter saying that they were money transmitters and had to get the licenses or cease 'money transmitting'. Of course that was epic bullshit.
What if this case is the same? Just a bullshit letter without any sense? What is the 'bitcoin foundation' opinion about that? Are they doing something about that?

That's so bad to hear.  I've been championing Mike's stuff whenever I hear people ask about "how you get a physical coin" or something equivalent to that.  I don't happen to be an owner of any but it's been so incredibly tempting.  To hear of this is heartbreaking and I hope either he can find a way to continue or at least pass the hurdles before him. 

Good point, what's stopping him just selling unloaded coins?

well, this is unexpected after the Senate hearing, I thought US was going to facilitate bitcoin related businesses up to a certain level.
casascius is well recognized from the community and I believe he is not part of any money laundering action.
he should move to another country and continue minting really, maybe canada is the best choice

If this is the 'light regulation" then USA is fucked as place to do bitcoin business ... watch what they do not what they say.

Edit: btw Mike you are great entrepreneur, I suggest a move to Switzerland might be a good option for you.

So now if I make a physical cookie dough coin I am a money transmitter?

If you start selling them , yes.
Also , another requirement is that you have to live in good old USA.

That's sad to hear. I saw some pictues of 1000BTC physical coin by Casascius that goat auctioned.

So, what is this supposed to do to the value of existing Casascius coins, will their value increase or decrease.

Setup a shop and sell it from Canada.

Good luck with that chain, it's not the one the rest of the world will be using. And the genuinely freedom oriented coins will trade at a higher premium too, you guys will be stuck with the inferior money.

A few people have forwarded this to me and asked for a comment, so here it is. (Sorry for being away from the forums lately, by the way)

FinCEN is a regulator, so they are going to try to regulate whatever they can.  They sent Mike a letter to say, "we think we'd like to regulate you."  He has the option to say, "No thanks" and let them pursue legal action against him.  In my opinion, Mike could probably win a court case defending his non-MSB status, but it would be a landmark ruling and a huge expense to undertake.  

For Titan Mint, We registered as an MSB because we want to accept dollars and make it convenient for everyday people to buy and get into bitcoin.  We planned to comply with FinCEN's AML/KYC policies from the beginning.  If bitcoin is a "currency", these types of situations are going to keep appearing as the legacy regulatory systems catch up to the constant influx of innovative business that build on the bitcoin protocol.  

Money laundering is real, and it's a real problem.  While this type of thing is a huge pain for the innovators in the bitcoin space, there is a kernel of "good" in FinCEN's mission statement.  It's definitely not for everyone, but some of us are willing to stick it out and work with the regulators in order to bring them up to speed on the future of money.  I completely respect the separatists in bitcoin who want to distance bitcoin from the existing systems.  There's a place for everyone in this community and we'll all add value in our own ways.  The work that is being done to make inroads with the existing financial establishment can serve to make bitcoin and its digital offspring much stronger.  If it doesn't though, we can always just move to a different blockchain.

It's a pity, the coins of Casascius are a true bitcoin icon  

I don't know american law but maybe the problem could be that he sell gold and silver coin too?

So now if i make a physical wow gold coin i am a money transmitter?

This is disgusting.

Get out of the USA as fast as you can Mike.

They do not deserve you.

Criminalising the business of a person who's played a historic role, that will be cited in articles and exhibitions for perhaps many years to come? I guess that is what this amounts to, yeah. A Casascius coin is already featured in a display at the British Museum. This is pretty poor behaviour from FinCEN.

This is why we need bitcoin.

Mike did a fantastic job of getting Bitcoin into the mainstream. The photos of his physical coins are everywhere and much more advanced-looking than any ordinary coin.

Eventually, I expect the Smithsonian will be wanting one to put on display.

The physical thing always seems get cracked down on.     It might be fun to have a 3D printer implementation of Mike's coins.   I bet he would not mind giving out some designs.   This way anyone can print them at a whim .

If they can construe Mike Caldwell's business as unlicensed money transmitting, then all bitcoin miners and users can by an extension of the same logic be considered to be the more guilty parties (and possibly businesses that post any precious metals in coin form). Users and miners are doing the deed directly, without any regulation or license :O Casascius is very much the lesser infringer, as they use the postal service to send people wallet access that is protected by a hologram housed in a coin.

So FinCEN have basically gone after an easy target because of the unique nature of his business, and what's more is that it's a business whose activity least resembles the transgression that they have charged Casascius with. Sending someone cash or a cheque in the post should also be considered money transmitting in this case. Hell, why not just simply giving people bank notes? Money is transmitted, no?

Sorry for Mike .   That said, he did not seem overly upset when last he spoke about this.