Topic: [2014-06-16] GHASH.IO statement about the 51 % problem (Read 3517 times)

maybe a solution:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2014-06-20-proof-of-activity-extending-bitcoins-proof-of-work-via-pos-659275

Yep exactly the fear sellers , if they were in power they would do it , why because they think they can get away with it,
like ghash.io "can" is they think
this is  symptoms of paranoid schizofrenia not evrything what you CAN do is done , because it has consequences for your self and your
environment.
If you can't see that you will likely do it your self if you had the change.
 

And yet if you look at the stats, they are at 34%.

Its about a few cents and they are detected , with the banks we know ,but we cant do anything but with ghash.io people can its to small , its like you shout to some one in trafic thts bad but not so bad you get in jail , so please shutup , its about a few cents.
 

This is demonstrably false, because they have already misbehaved and yet now they are the largest mining pool.
Most people simply don't care, they just want to maximise their own profits in the short term.

You are just another shill saying "I swear Ghash.IO isn't being infiltrated by banks or credit agencies." We have heard your bullshit argument that conveniently always leaves out this scenario and also leaves 51% of the net hash open for the picking. Go home. Your tactics no longer work here.

all FEAR is INSIDE YOU HEAD.... we dont give a F*CK , if ghash.io misbehaves it will lose its good name . and will be replaced by someone else we are noet DEPENEDENT obn ghash.io nor do they own all mining hardware its custumers  use
so do executing your fear , is suicide for ghash.io , they can do it but wont get them very far!

so my questing is why dont you go to a shopping mall and kill some people?
you CAN do it nobody will stop you from doing it if you want to do it.
so why don't you?
Exectly You will likely sucseed but the what happens after you did it what are the  consequences?
and that's why sane people don't kill.
Ghash.io can not get away with it consequences  it  lose its business to other miner gulde's!
We are not dependent on them.
That's why most people don't care , they know this unless you suffer from  paranoid schizophrenia bacause then your brain can now longer make this differentiation anymore!

It is amazing how you Ghash.IO "supporters" keep mentioning how it is in their best interest to not tamper with the blockchain. YOU ARE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FACT THAT THE MOST POWERFUL GROUPS IN THE WORLD WOULD LOVE TO INFILTRATE GHASH.IO AND TO SEE BITCOIN DEAD!

Why can't at least one of you shillbots own up to the fact that absolutely no trust at all should ever be put into any exchange, pool, or entity of any kind? THEY CAN ALL BE INFILTRATED EASILY!

All of you are making Ghash.io look like shit right now. Thanks!

Does not mean the can do it all the tme , yes we need to watch big pools , but no we dont need to get parabnoia about it other pools can refuse blocks of ghash.io because they make to many blocks.
So for ghash.io it is NOT in its intrest to build a big pool , because you waste mining capasaty becasue other miners will not accept the blocks.
and remenber there is a mutch BIGGER problem , with our economy , its called the imposible hamster ,
Resources VS endless growing bitcoin by it nature can solve this puzzle , so can save hamanity!
so don't underastimate the incentive to make this work!

This times a million is the one and only core value that is driving bitcoin and the only real thing of value that bitcoin has to offer. Realistically, I could wire somebody in Antarctica money in a few minutes using the bank. I can buy anything anywhere with banks cards, and most people don't even think about the fees they might save doing otherwise. Many of the everyday uses for bitcoin seem pointless right now. But it isn't really about that.

What makes bitcoin worth fighting for so much is the technology behind it that removes the centralization of power in the economic system and creates a worldwide network where all users have the same rights and privileges. It is about removing all possible corruption from banking, wall street, government, credit agencies, and the individual citizen as well. It is about being able to buy penny stocks of a farm in Africa when you live in Argentina. It is about traveling the entire world and never having to submit to the local currency restrictions. It is about not having the money in your pocket stolen from you by an invisible hand.

Bitcoin is about fairness. The more fair we can be, the better we can work towards the future. Without cryptocurrency, the world is doomed. I wish I could be joking right now.

Yes, they were successful, they confirmed the second transaction, thus cancelling the first. That is what a double-spend is.
This meant that they kept their winning bet transactions and revoked their losing bet transactions.

Nope, that's not it either. It means that if you want to replace the block chain you either can't use too much time, or you have to set the time stamp into the future to give yourself some extra time. "Fortunately" for ghash.io they control a lot of the miners in their pool, which gives them a better probability.

What's that old saying?

Oh yeah:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."  -Lord Acton

So what GHASH.is is saying is that they enjoy havin 51 % and that they don't give a fuck about centralisation ? Thats a very nice statement wraped up, you could use different words but then it would be much more obvious that you don't even care about it.

FUD: Surely nobody in a large bank or credit agency would ever try to infiltrate the Bitcoin Foundation or GHash.IO and arrange a meeting to make plans for the new Central Banker-Miners to take over and rule the world for their bosses. Yep, you are right. We should just leave 50% of the hashing power in one pool so somebody can come in and use it to permanently damage the trust in bitcoin enough to possibly damn it forever. Sounds legit.

FACT: An alarming amount of CEOs and other top executives have been infiltrating many bitcoin businesses and organizations. The ease with which you suggest that they would never have the power to take down the network this way is also alarming. Leaving all that hashpower in one location is a 100% sure sign that somebody will attempt to abuse it in order to kill bitcoin for real.

Decentralization in every possible way! This is very simple stuff to figure out, and no amount of hand-waving and fancy whitepaper posts will ever change anything about that.

If it is detected as a double spend in blackchain.info it was not sucsessfull , I explained how hard it is to realy do it , when sticking to 6 confirmations , Further more if ghash.io was realy bad people would have droped it by know or at leased miners would have stoped accepting mined blocks from them
So this is why i dont worry , if one miner act bad other can stop acccepting blocks from that miner , so acting bad is in nobody's intrest.
also the median time rule makes it almost imposible to act bad because you need to know the time when feature transaction will come . mutiple times in a row.
I incurage evrybody to try to hack and play with the bitcoin protocol! . and emulate all senarios

Was the double spend sucsessfull? if detected as double spend it was clearly not
attemting one is wrong but it failed because of the way bitcoin is setup.

I can answer that for you. Yes, anything that goes against the principles of a trust-less system makes GHash.IO dishonest, including their double spend attack.

Everybody, let's just think this one over for a second. In a system that is supposed to require absolutely no trust between any parties, why is GHash.IO saying we should trust them? This goes against everything that defines the very idea behind bitcoin, and they will pay for it.

Bitcoin does not have to destroy banks, it does not need to be completely free of fees and taxes, but bitcoin must, absolutely must rip the financial control from the wealthy elites cold dead hands so that we never have to "trust" any authority figure when it comes to monetary policy or cryptocurrency. If it can't do that, then we should just give up right now because everything else is pointless.

youre right ip does not matter , was also wondering why it exepted 8 blocks bit the check is median time.

rule 13 is about Median time.... thats a hard concept.

block  #299457 2014-05-06 23:25:38
----
block  #299456 2014-05-06 23:02:13
block  #299455 2014-05-06 22:54:57
block  #299454 2014-05-06 22:51:31
block  #299453 2014-05-06 22:50:08
---
block  #299252 2014-05-06 22:37:53
---
block  #299251 2014-05-06 22:27:03
block  #299250 2014-05-06 22:21:21
block  #299249 2014-05-06 22:17:07

This means that you can NOT create more then 6 blocks in a row less then 10 minutes apart ,

Rule  13. Reject [a block] if timestamp is the median time of the last 11 blocks or before

This can be interpreted in a following way: If the attacker will try to mine his own private blockchain fork, other nodes will almost certainly reject it, if his length is more than 6 blocks, since the timestamp of the first such mined block will be almost certainly older than the median time of the last 11 mined blocks. Replacing 6 or less blocks is possible, but when attacker tries to replace 7 or more blocks, the first one will be too old to be accepted.

TL;DR: Six bitcoin confirmations is not an arbitrary number. If payee accepts a transaction with less than six confirmations, it is possible that the attacker, even without a majority of the hashpower, can launch a brute force attack by mining his private blockchain fork and reverse the transaction. With six or more confirmations, such an attack will be rejected by the Protocol rule 13 described above.

Note for programmers: The check is implemented in the method GetMedianTimePast() and called in method AcceptBlock(), file main.cpp:

bool CBlock::AcceptBlock(CValidationState &state, CDiskBlockPos *dbp)
{
...
        // Check timestamp against prev
        if (GetBlockTime() <= pindexPrev->GetMedianTimePast())
            return state.Invalid(error("AcceptBlock() : block's timestamp is too early"));
 
 
If ghash.io does make a separate chain form the original chain , it needs to devote all its hashing power to the fake chain . and CAN NOT know when the next transaction will come.
so making a plasible fake chain at the same time is very hard if not imposible.
becaue you have to know when transactions are comming at forehand.

What are you talking about? That rule has nothing to do with IPs, in fact there is nothing in the block itself about IPs. The IP listed by blockchain (if there is one) has nothing to do with the node that actually mined the block, it's just the IP of the node that first relayed the block to blockchain.info.