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Topic: [2014-06-16] GHASH.IO statement about the 51 % problem - page 2. (Read 3517 times)

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Do you think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?

Iits dumb of betcoin to accept transactions of les then 6 confirmation
, honisty does not exsits in the financhial world that's why we have a system as bitcoin
to rule out human temptation by code ruling.
Wolfs of wallstreet anyone? Smiley

You really can't answer the question, can you?
No point continuing the discussion then.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
legendary
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You are going a long way round in circles to avoid answering this question:

Quote
And you don't think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?


its very simple a ,miner can NEVER do 7 blocks in a row.
see rule 13 http://btc-base.blogspot.sk/2014/01/bitcoin-transactions-why-it-is.html
7 blocks is the inital transactions + 6 confirmations
at best ghash.io can do the double spend + 5 confirmations  ... the 6thx (block 7) has to be done by somone else.
if thats not done the transaction will fial back to zero!
so its that simple , one miner can max do 6 blocks in a row , thats 5 confirmations , and thats why you need at least 6 confirmations (7 blocks) to be save because the 7th block can never be done by the same miner. , its so very simple Smiley
so you can never double spend , bacause you can never make more then 6 blocks in a row , so you NEVER get a double spend with 6 confirmations.
its even stupid to hash the 7th block , because it will not be accepted by the chain , this wasting mining power.
so its even stuped to join a to big pool Smiley


Do you think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?


Iits dumb of betcoin to accept transactions of les then 6 confirmation
, honisty does not exsits in the financhial world that's why we have a system as bitcoin
to rule out human temptation by code ruling.
Wolfs of wallstreet anyone? Smiley

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
You are going a long way round in circles to avoid answering this question:

Quote
And you don't think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?

its very simple a ,miner can NEVER do 7 blocks in a row.
see rule 13 http://btc-base.blogspot.sk/2014/01/bitcoin-transactions-why-it-is.html
7 blocks is the inital transactions + 6 confirmations
at best ghash.io can do the double spend + 5 confirmations... the 6thx (block 7) has to be done by somone else.
if thats not done the transaction will fial back to zero!
so its that simple , one miner can max do 6 blocks in a row , thats 5 confirmations , and thats why you need at least 6 confirmations (7 blocks) to be save because the 7th block can never be done by the same miner. , its so very simple Smiley

Do you think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
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FACT is that if ghash.io did not confirm the transaction oher miner would had done!
so it does not make any sense to do this as ghash.io .

They did it.

Quote
if they block a transaction some other miner will handle it and will be the fastest.

If they solve a block including the second transaction, the first transaction will never be confirmed by anyone, because the shared inputs will have already been spent.
And the more %age of hashing power they control, the more chance they have of doing this.
well yes bit this is why you need 6 confirmations!!!!!!!!!

You are going a long way round in circles to avoid answering this question:

Quote
And you don't think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?

its very simple a ,miner can NEVER do 7 blocks in a row.
see rule 13 http://btc-base.blogspot.sk/2014/01/bitcoin-transactions-why-it-is.html
7 blocks is the inital transactions + 6 confirmations
at best ghash.io can do the double spend + 5 confirmations  ... the 6thx (block 7) has to be done by somone else.
if thats not done the transaction will fial back to zero!
so its that simple , one miner can max do 6 blocks in a row , thats 5 confirmations , and thats why you need at least 6 confirmations (7 blocks) to be save because the 7th block can never be done by the same miner. , its so very simple Smiley
so you can never double spend , bacause you can never make more then 6 blocks in a row , so you NEVER get a double s[end with 6 confirmations.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
FACT is that if ghash.io did not confirm the transaction oher miner would had done!
so it does not make any sense to do this as ghash.io .

They did it.

Quote
if they block a transaction some other miner will handle it and will be the fastest.

If they solve a block including the second transaction, the first transaction will never be confirmed by anyone, because the shared inputs will have already been spent.
And the more %age of hashing power they control, the more chance they have of doing this.
well yes bit this is why you need 6 confirmations!!!!!!!!!

You are going a long way round in circles to avoid answering this question:

Quote
And you don't think that [double-spend attack against BetCoin] makes GHash dishonest?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
FACT is that if ghash.io did not confirm the transaction oher miner would had done!
so it does not make any sense to do this as ghash.io .

They did it.

Quote
if they block a transaction some other miner will handle it and will be the fastest.

If they solve a block including the second transaction, the first transaction will never be confirmed by anyone, because the shared inputs will have already been spent.
And the more %age of hashing power they control, the more chance they have of doing this.
well yes bit this is why you need 6 confirmations!!!!!!!!!
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
FACT is that if ghash.io did not confirm the transaction oher miner would had done!
so it does not make any sense to do this as ghash.io .

They did it.

Quote
if they block a transaction some other miner will handle it and will be the fastest.

If they solve a block including the second transaction, the first transaction will never be confirmed by anyone, because the shared inputs will have already been spent.
And the more %age of hashing power they control, the more chance they have of doing this.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
Quote

I'm curious how you think the majority of miners will notice that they are mining on a GHash.io fork instead of the main chain? Even just looking at today's stats there are periods where GHash has mined 6 blocks in a half hour, and some where they have found no blocks for an hour and a half. Even apart from the fact a large portion of GHash is their private mining pool, you're giving way too much credit to the responsiveness of most miners. While it could take a decent bit of time to reorg a 6 deep chain if they got unlucky, it would still likely happen way before enough people moved off the pool to make a difference.

the number of found blocks from ghash.io will be 0 for a very long time , because it is using its power to mine a private fork
but even then every block > 6 in a row will be ignored by the prtocol!

the code can be found here

 Note for programmers: The check is implemented in the method GetMedianTimePast() and called in method AcceptBlock(), file main.cpp:

bool CBlock::AcceptBlock(CValidationState &state, CDiskBlockPos *dbp)
{
...
        // Check timestamp against prev
        if (GetBlockTime() <= pindexPrev->GetMedianTimePast())
            return state.Invalid(error("AcceptBlock() : block's timestamp is too early"));

...
}

http://btc-base.blogspot.sk/2014/01/bitcoin-transactions-why-it-is.html

so you have to mine more then 6 blocks in a row , this is blocked by bitcoin source code thats why its NEVER more then 6.
and then notting for a while! , its just as the code says , http://btc-base.blogspot.sk/2014/01/bitcoin-transactions-why-it-is.html
so to make this possible it has to gues blocks of other miners too , and be more then 11 blocks faster!

 13. Reject [a block] if timestamp is the median time of the last 11 blocks or before

This can be interpreted in a following way: If the attacker will try to mine his own private blockchain fork, other nodes will almost certainly reject it, if his length is more than 6 blocks, since the timestamp of the first such mined block will be almost certainly older than the median time of the last 11 mined blocks. Replacing 6 or less blocks is possible, but when attacker tries to replace 7 or more blocks, the first one will be too old to be accepted.

TL;DR: Six bitcoin confirmations is not an arbitrary number. If payee accepts a transaction with less than six confirmations, it is possible that the attacker, even without a majority of the hashpower, can launch a brute force attack by mining his private blockchain fork and reverse the transaction. With six or more confirmations, such an attack will be rejected by the Protocol rule 13 described above.

exlpains this...
so no ghash.io cant do this even if they want it.




legendary
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legendary
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IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

As I asked above: But it is ok because they only attacked stupid people?
Seems like the answer is yes.

Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.
I dont need to be ghash.io to do dubble spend a 0 confirmation anybody can do this.
the netwrk wil simply confirm the fastest transaction , so yes only stupid users will do this.
when a transaction is confirmed 6 it is save. as I explained mutiple time's.

And you don't think that makes GHash dishonest?

the question is was it ghash.io it self or a  individual miner mining at that pool , you dont need a lot of hasing power to respend a unconfirmed transaction.

It was (the previous owners of) GHash itself.
It is the pool which decides which transactions to include in a block, not the individual miners at the pool.
Before lecturing people on fact vs fud, shouldn't you find out what the facts are?

FACT is that if ghash.io did not confirm the transaction oher miner would had done!
so it does not make any sense to do this as ghash.io .
if they block a transaction some other miner will handle it and will be the fastest.
they dont own the capasity so it will be noticed in the number of winning blocks......,,
so again whats the problem'? , waiting 6 confirmations is the solution , only if you are dumb you accept 0 confiramtions.
and as I told you you cant have more then 6 blocks in one row from one miner , so it wil take a bit longer to confirm this transaction but it WILL in the end be confirmed.

sr. member
Activity: 417
Merit: 250
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

As I asked above: But it is ok because they only attacked stupid people?
Seems like the answer is yes.

Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.
I dont need to be ghash.io to do dubble spend a 0 confirmation anybody can do this.
the netwrk wil simply confirm the fastest transaction , so yes only stupid users will do this.
when a transaction is confirmed 6 it is save. as I explained mutiple time's.

And you don't think that makes GHash dishonest?

the question is was it ghash.io it self or a  individual miner mining at that pool , you dont need a lot of hasing power to respend a unconfirmed transaction.

It was (the previous owners of) GHash itself.
It is the pool which decides which transactions to include in a block, not the individual miners at the pool.
Before lecturing people on fact vs fud, shouldn't you find out what the facts are?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

As I asked above: But it is ok because they only attacked stupid people?
Seems like the answer is yes.

Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.
I dont need to be ghash.io to do dubble spend a 0 confirmation anybody can do this.
the netwrk wil simply confirm the fastest transaction , so yes only stupid users will do this.
when a transaction is confirmed 6 it is save. as I explained mutiple time's.

And you don't think that makes GHash dishonest?

the question is was it ghash.io it self or a  individual miner mining at that pool , you dont need a lot of hasing power to respend a unconfirmed transaction.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.

OK. I magine that you are the owner of a coffee shop, which has recently decided to accept Bitcoin payments. And constomer comes to you and pays with Bitcoins. Would you tell him: "Buddy, wait for 3 hours. I need to get 6 confirmations to make sure that you don't double spend your coins" ?

A coffeeshop calculates the risk , a crediccard can also be cashed back , and money can be counterfitted.
a failed $1 transaction do to dubble spend when accepting 0 confirmations is accepible.
a $25000 transcation can wait for 6 confirmations easaly.
its a matterv risk calculation.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

As I asked above: But it is ok because they only attacked stupid people?
Seems like the answer is yes.

Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.
I dont need to be ghash.io to do dubble spend a 0 confirmation anybody can do this.
the netwrk wil simply confirm the fastest transaction , so yes only stupid users will do this.
when a transaction is confirmed 6 it is save. as I explained mutiple time's.

And you don't think that makes GHash dishonest?
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1219
Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.

OK. I magine that you are the owner of a coffee shop, which has recently decided to accept Bitcoin payments. And constomer comes to you and pays with Bitcoins. Would you tell him: "Buddy, wait for 3 hours. I need to get 6 confirmations to make sure that you don't double spend your coins" ?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

As I asked above: But it is ok because they only attacked stupid people?
Seems like the answer is yes.

Yes if you take unconfirmed transactions as transactios , you ask for it.
I dont need to be ghash.io to do dubble spend a 0 confirmation anybody can do this.
the netwrk wil simply confirm the fastest transaction , so yes only stupid users will do this.
when a transaction is confirmed 6 it is save. as I explained mutiple time's.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

As I asked above: But it is ok because they only attacked stupid people?
Seems like the answer is yes.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
this is why there must be 6 CONFIRMATIONS to have a transaction!

Rubbish.

Quote
A pool that is doing evil will in time lose hashing capacity as those mining there discover that the pool is harming Bitcoin and take their hashing capacity elsewhere.

It is known that GHash has previously done evil.
They are currently the biggest pool.
Most people don't seem to give a crap, and will mine wherever pays them the most.

IF YOU ARE AS STUPID TO ACCEPT UNCONFIRIMED TRANSACTIONS EVRYBODY CAN DO EVIL IF THEY WANT.

Not quite.a transaction WHITOUT confirmation is NO TRANSACTION
 UNCONFIRMID TRANSACTIONS WERE NEVER MENT TO BE SAVE AT AL!!!!
accepting 0 confirmations is accepting no safety and is not  honoring the BTC protocol.  
accepting 0 confirmations as save is plain stupid.
this is why there must be 6 CONFIRMATIONS to have a transaction!


This is how bitcoin works stick to it or get burned , its your own risk  , give real arguments of f***k off Smiley



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