[2016-02-10] ToI: Card frauds used bitcoins to trade money

deadley

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Quote from: dashingriddler on March 02, 2016, 04:11:19 PM

The other side is that if everyone was using Bitcoin, this kind of fraud cannot happen.

It can happen with only plastic money too. when there is no cash transaction.

With bitcoin there is way to hack system and steal all bitcoin. Nothing is 100% safe.

dashingriddler

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The other side is that if everyone was using Bitcoin, this kind of fraud cannot happen.

stingers

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Quote from: polynesia on February 28, 2016, 08:22:08 PM

Quote from: simple_love on February 28, 2016, 03:23:45 PM

the only way bitcoin really helped int his case, was because it can used to make international transfers. one could as well used cash if it were inside India.

i think it is reasonable for the govt. to know who is using bitcoins after all. just because they know who is using it, doesn't mean everyone has done something wrong. i really don't see what is wrong in using bitcoins if not used for illegal purposes. of course, paying taxes is something everyone should take care of.

The problem was not with bitcoins. The problem was with the source of cash used to buy bitcoins - they were obtained illegally. The question is whether Pankaj knew that the cash was obtained through illegal means. The police believe he knew.

I.e problem was with credit cards. Bitcoin ain't the culprit here. CCs are.

polynesia

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Quote from: simple_love on February 28, 2016, 03:23:45 PM

the only way bitcoin really helped int his case, was because it can used to make international transfers. one could as well used cash if it were inside India.

i think it is reasonable for the govt. to know who is using bitcoins after all. just because they know who is using it, doesn't mean everyone has done something wrong. i really don't see what is wrong in using bitcoins if not used for illegal purposes. of course, paying taxes is something everyone should take care of.

The problem was not with bitcoins. The problem was with the source of cash used to buy bitcoins - they were obtained illegally. The question is whether Pankaj knew that the cash was obtained through illegal means. The police believe he knew.

simple_love

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the only way bitcoin really helped int his case, was because it can used to make international transfers. one could as well used cash if it were inside India.

i think it is reasonable for the govt. to know who is using bitcoins after all. just because they know who is using it, doesn't mean everyone has done something wrong. i really don't see what is wrong in using bitcoins if not used for illegal purposes. of course, paying taxes is something everyone should take care of.

micky123

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Quote from: polynesia on February 17, 2016, 08:47:03 PM

Quote from: micky123 on February 17, 2016, 08:33:22 AM

Do i have to pay taxes only when i convert the BTC to INR, or do i have to pay taxes even for holding BTC, if yes, at what rate (since it fluctuates so much)?

My understanding is that you have to pay tax when you get BTC in exchange for goods/services (not buy BTC) or when you sell BTC for a profit. You do not have to pay taxes for holding BTC.

So how do i classify my income from BTC for say a signature campaign. Once i convert to INR, do i club with additional income and be taxed according to my current tax bracket? Also, if i "gift" btc to my spouse or family members who are not earning, will that save me from tax liability? If yes, how does one go about "gifting" something virtual and what kind of proof could i provide? If i am trading btc, then it would be capital gains tax? I assume i will need to provide purchase proof though, but this purchase was done off bitcoin sites way before Indian exchanges came about, what could i do in this case, most of these websites preached anonymity so there is no actual record of the transaction on their website and p2p transaction purchases. I don't think providing a txid to the tax authorities would help! Cheesy

polynesia

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Quote from: micky123 on February 17, 2016, 08:33:22 AM

Do i have to pay taxes only when i convert the BTC to INR, or do i have to pay taxes even for holding BTC, if yes, at what rate (since it fluctuates so much)?

My understanding is that you have to pay tax when you get BTC in exchange for goods/services (not buy BTC) or when you sell BTC for a profit. You do not have to pay taxes for holding BTC.

micky123

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This was very depressing to read about. I had done some trades with him in the past and he seemed to be a great guy, how did he get mixed up in all of this! Sad

Warning, OT: Anyhow, i was looking for info on the taxation piece and did not get anywhere on the taxation thread, since there seem to be so many traders on this thread, i would like to ask for your understanding and how you declare earnings from Bitcoin in ITR. My tax consultant had no clue and he just wanted me to club it and show it as additional income. My understanding is that it is not a currency, so how can i show it as additional income. Another thing i do not get is this: Do i have to pay taxes only when i convert the BTC to INR, or do i have to pay taxes even for holding BTC, if yes, at what rate (since it fluctuates so much)?

stingers

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Quote from: soyab0007 on February 16, 2016, 02:33:08 AM

Guys, do purchasing stuffs from newegg and amazon.com through bitcoins will be illegal or legal?

I guess Delhi Poilice wont catch you for these transactions till you are involved in some kind of fraud or something. I will still continue to use bitcoin as a mode of payment regardless of whatever is happening.

soyab0007

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Guys, do purchasing stuffs from newegg and amazon.com through bitcoins will be illegal or legal?

stingers

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Quote from: polynesia on February 14, 2016, 08:52:18 PM

Quote from: stingers on February 14, 2016, 01:34:44 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: subvolatil on May 24, 2013, 02:21:02 PM

But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.

Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax.

Can this get Pankaj into further troubles?

Also, I don't know why mods deleted the above post of escrow.ms from the "Pay your tax" thread. Any answer for this Benson?

Well, if it was deleted after you quoted it, it must have been done by a global mod. Escrow.ms hasn't been online since 7-Feb-16.
His current problems relate more to money laundering than to tax evasion.

I almost forgot that the user himself could have deleted that post.
And no, the post was deleted before I had quoted it.

polynesia

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Quote from: stingers on February 14, 2016, 01:34:44 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: subvolatil on May 24, 2013, 02:21:02 PM

But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.

Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax.

Can this get Pankaj into further troubles?

Also, I don't know why mods deleted the above post of escrow.ms from the "Pay your tax" thread. Any answer for this Benson?

Well, if it was deleted after you quoted it, it must have been done by a global mod. Escrow.ms hasn't been online since 7-Feb-16.
His current problems relate more to money laundering than to tax evasion.

Benson Samuel

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Landscaping Bitcoin for India!

Quote from: stingers on February 14, 2016, 01:34:44 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: subvolatil on May 24, 2013, 02:21:02 PM

But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.

Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax.

Can this get Pankaj into further troubles?

Also, I don't know why Benson deleted the above post of escrow.ms from the "Pay your tax" thread. Any answer for this Benson?

Not deleted by Benson. Maybe removed by OP or reported to a global mod and removed.

stingers

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: subvolatil on May 24, 2013, 02:21:02 PM

But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.

Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax.

Can this get Pankaj into further troubles?

Also, I don't know why mods deleted the above post of escrow.ms from the "Pay your tax" thread. Any answer for this Benson?

polynesia

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Quote from: dashingriddler on February 12, 2016, 12:47:48 PM

Quote from: polynesia on February 11, 2016, 08:11:58 PM

Quote from: Rotten Egg on February 11, 2016, 06:19:08 PM

So, there is nothing to panic. Just stay away from cash trades.

I don't think there is anything wrong in cash trades per se. For small transactions (<1 BTC), cash would be the most convenient form of transfer.
Is anybody aware of a threshold amount above which cash trades are illegal?

20k or 50k and it depends on type of transaction and invoice being raised etc I guess. But I don't think you can call the trade to be illegal if it is of more amount though..

According to this article, measures are being contemplated to make PAN card disclosure required for cash transactions beyond a particular level.

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-pan-card-may-become-mandatory-for-cash-transactions-beyond-certain-limit-fm-arun-jaitley-2131680

dashingriddler

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Quote from: polynesia on February 11, 2016, 08:11:58 PM

Quote from: Rotten Egg on February 11, 2016, 06:19:08 PM

So, there is nothing to panic. Just stay away from cash trades.

I don't think there is anything wrong in cash trades per se. For small transactions (<1 BTC), cash would be the most convenient form of transfer.
Is anybody aware of a threshold amount above which cash trades are illegal?

20k or 50k and it depends on type of transaction and invoice being raised etc I guess. But I don't think you can call the trade to be illegal if it is of more amount though..

chronicsky

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Just looking for peace

That's Bad news as it will surely affect Indian Market and people already have Bad reviews for Bitcoin since Silkroad and now this. Sad

Though , am glad i didn't dealt with him much. :/
Good luck to him... or not (depending on how true the news is)

polynesia

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Quote from: dashingriddler on February 10, 2016, 11:08:51 AM

Been reading articles on other publications on this issue. It is so crazy that they are coloring bitcoin and trying to show it in wrong light. Just the hot news hungry media !

Yes, this news has been extensively covered.

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/card-cloning-racket-using-bitcoins-busted-1-held-116020901233_1.html
http://zeenews.india.com/news/delhi/international-debit-card-cloning-gang-member-held-in-delhi_1854003.html
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/528046/card-cloning-gang-sends-bitcoins.html
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/1-held-for-card-cloning/article8216320.ece

polynesia

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Quote from: Rotten Egg on February 11, 2016, 06:19:08 PM

So, there is nothing to panic. Just stay away from cash trades.

I don't think there is anything wrong in cash trades per se. For small transactions (<1 BTC), cash would be the most convenient form of transfer.
Is anybody aware of a threshold amount above which cash trades are illegal?

Rotten Egg

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Quote from: chronicsky on February 11, 2016, 09:42:09 AM

What will happen to Bitcoin users in India after this Incident Huh

Those who dealt with him or personnel of the company he was associated with might be called upon for investigation. But, it wont have any effect on bitcoin users of India in general. Just consider the following facts...

1. Unocoin founders were called upon by police for investigation of a gambling money trail. But, they dint shut down Unocoin.

2. Zebpay presented their product in Ahmadabad in front of RBI officials. This disproves the claim of the police officer in media that RBI declared bitcoin illegal. If that was true, then Zebpay were shut down by now.

So, there is nothing to panic. Just stay away from cash trades.

Topic: [2016-02-10] ToI: Card frauds used bitcoins to trade money (Read 2958 times)