Topic: [2019-06-07] India Proposes 10-Yr Jail For Crypto Use, May Introduce own crypto (Read 8068 times)

For Venezuela, apart from the target of getting additional funds, one of the intended purposes was to circumvent the sanctions and embargoes. And as far as I know, it worked to a certain extent. Russian shell companies located in Cryprus were able to transfer significant amounts of funds using the Venezuelan government crypto (Petro). I am not sure about the volumes, but the fact that Maduro has managed to cling on means that he has received significant funds from Russia.

The plan to go after decentralized cryptos and make their own, reminds me of Venezuela. Their plan did not work out, and people did not end up using their digital currency. The economic situation in both countries is very different tough.

I cant  understand why this drastic proposal is needed. It seems that is completely irrational and maybe even fueled by fear. I dont know much about India ( I have been there once for few weeks) but it seemed that almost all transactions are done via cash. So I dont understand how cryptos could give such big negative impact to their economy to justify this abnormal law.

This can create some headache for both the Bitcoin users and the authorities.

Let's say I am holding BTC20. Since India has banned Bitcoins, I just send them to my friend, who issues me a bank cheque of a certain amount in return. My friend creates an exchange account in his name in Japan, and sell the coins for fiat currency. He deposits the fiat cash to his bank account. After a few days, I encash the bank cheque and withdraws the fiat to my bank account. How can the government prosecute me?

In my tax return, I will show the fiat amount as gift from my friend.

that's not what I meant though



that ^^^ is what I meant.


Don't give them money. They give it to their friends to conduct public projects, then both put some or most of the money in their pockets. They're corrupt.


Be sure to give your money to people who do spend your money on good things that benefit others, and there's no real way of pointing a finger at you saying you're the problem.

This is a gross oversimplification. That is not what happens when money changes hands due to "corrupt administration". It is not a case of "An individual" being forced/ pressurized. All such major scams are generally a mutual exchange between partners in cahoots.

The money that gets diverted is "Public Money". What suffers is Public Infrastructure, healthcare, education etc.

I doubt whether they are going to introduce their own crypto. At the most, they will introduce a digital version of the national currency (Indian Rupee, INR) and name it something like the crypto Rupee or the digital Rupee. Since it is inferior to most of the decentralized cryptocurrencies which are currently circulating, they first need to take them out and make some space.

The answer why they want to do this is in your own thread title. May introduce own crypto hehehe.

I reckon the odds are high that they can create the law and pass it. However, the odds are low that they can enforce it.

The draft of new bill doesn't have punitive law for all type of holdings. It specifically mentioned punitive charges if cryptocurrencies are hold for any purpose mentioned under Section 8 of the new bill. So even though new bill comes to existence and trading of cryptocurrencies gets banned in India, Indians still have the options to hold crypto in their personal wallet and sell them via mediums like 'Currency Exchange' section on forum and receive money via PayPal. I don't think that would be considered as offence.

But I do not see how it resolves the problem, your coins are still your coins, regardless of whether they are stored on your computer or they are located in another country. If you government know that you have BTC for example in Japan, will this prevent them from punishing you for possession of cryptocurrency?

Also this would be a great security risk for each user, "no private keys, no full control over your coins". So something like this would work only if you have  a very confidential person in other country, who can hold coins for you and sell / buy coins for you. That "gift" part is also not 100% clear, fiat is something that can be very successfully tracked, and if government find source of money it can block your bank account and send you to cold storage for 10 years.

A lot of debate going on here in India about the options we have, in case the Indian government bans the possession of crypto-currency. One of the proposed solution is to have some individual or some organization based outside India to hold the coins for the users. In case the user want to convert the coins to fiat, he can ask that individual to do that and send the money to India as "gift".

sure, if any group is pooling money to subsidize something of which they have joint ownership, they would be wise to keep track of the transactions that take place in the pool



people in power can't misspend your money if you don't give it to them. so Bitcoin does solve that problem.

if you think that you will give your BTC to corrupt people if (when) they pressurize you, I reiterate: please sell to someone who won't give away their democratic rights to corrupt bullies

Yeah yeah. I should have known where this will go.. Not arguing with that.


Hmm. Everyone using BTC would mean putting public expenditure on a public blockchain. This would automatically result in accountability.

Yet, those with power will always find a way to get paid and they are inherently shielded by the nature of cryptocurrency.  So while bitcoin can solve the problem of Govt and Central Bank monopoly on the value of money, i think it creates additional problems when it comes to corruption. This is why it is easier to target it in a developing country like India.
But yes, targeting BTC for that is a typical diversionary tactic. Its not the tool but the intent of its use which is the problem here.


Mannnn! First, I don't really own that much. Second, I am not selling, no matter what you say..The discussion evolved and well, I concede this debate in your favor Banks.  Would you please get off that horse now??

yes it was, it was designed to engender outright financial independence. that includes people using Bitcoin to do immoral things, as well as the moral



no it's not, if everyone has a "swiss bank account" then no-one need pay money to corrupt officials to begin with

---

it's very simple.

Bitcoin is code. The code does exactly what it does, nothing else. It enables complete financial independence. If you don't want that, you bought the wrong thing: do everyone a favour, sell

I take it that you say so coming from the anti-taxation, anti-establishment school of thought. I don't have a problem with that as its debatable whether its a good thing or a bad thing. I think you have taken my "declare and track" statement to heart. I am obviously wrong to see that as an alternative. That was not my point though and i am quite sure that Bitcoin wasn't "designed" to support bribes and corruption.

If don't think this is the ONLY "State of Affairs" bitcoin is supposed to propagate. You should probably expand your horizons a bit. India has been a developing, over-populated country for several decades since its independence. The tendency to hoard ill-gotten cash has been the bane of development out here. From that viewpoint, the regulators/ Govt project cryptocurrency as simply another way of safely storing "Bribe money". The Govt. officials in India who amassed disproportionate assets had this "Swiss Bank" thing going on for the longest time.

Its a difficult problem to solve and a difficult propaganda to counter. Obviously not as simple as giving unsolicited advice about selling BTC. If you want to continue this discussion by doling out sermons from your high chair of libertarianism then you are welcome not to reply. If you can point out a way to better counter these obvious "perception issues" or know of an example where this was done then you are welcome Mr Banks.

Indian lawmakers are a bunch of jokers and they have proved it many times in the past as well. The problem is that these buffoons don't understand the basics of cryptocurrency. They still think that it is possible to link a cryptocurrency wallet with an individual. They are overly dependent on their advisers, and the latter makes use of the former's ignorance to push forward their agenda.

Bitcoin was designed to support exactly this type of behaviour. You should sell your BTC if you don't like this state of affairs, you clearly didn't even understand what it was before you bought.

Your mindset is incompatible with the tool you are using. You can't buy an airplane, then go on to complain that you can't drive it on the highway or park it in your garage.

To be fair, the argument for banning cryptocurrency use in India is too strong.

This has a lot to do with the history of Money Laundering and Tax evasion in India. Over the past decades tax evasion has been a huge issue in India. People simply do not declare real income. To do this, cash as a means of transaction used to be encouraged in India by small traders, real estate dealers etc in order to obfuscate the trail of money.

A lot of money pumped into Central Govt schemes used to find its way to middlemen through bribes. To rein this, a system of Direct Benefit Transfers was widely promoted by this Govt. This lead to reduction in the funds being funneled by middlemen. This is where the funds used in corrupt practices come into picture.
The demonetization that most people are crying about was in fact the time when cryptocurrency gained wide usage in India. It was sold by the early adopters as an easy option to convert undeclared cash into safe, untraceable value. Govt committees understand that cryptocurrency is an untraceable form of value. The immediate use case in India would be for corrupt practices like bribes and undisclosed income. They don't want to get into the nuances of having it declared and then tracking them. Banning seems to be the simplest way to go about it.

This will be really bad for enthusiasts like me.

If India wishes to introduce its own cryptos they are better doing this the right way, perhaps regulation is what they need to be talking about and not jail time for using a competitors product.

The punishments they are proposing is laughable and hope this is a late April Fools joke. Honestly in this time and era trying to win customers with unfair competition or should I say blackmail is unacceptable !

so there banning something that's already banned. Double banned! It's like something out of a tv commercial

now imagine if you pay for porn with bitcoin in India -its instant decapitation on the spot 
well I have already posted this youtube link :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-drIodJEQ
in this video a man is trying to explain that the paragraph in question doesn't explicitly ban bitcoin , but only describes penalties for certain cases of its use ( or misuse)
it can be money laundering or scamming , it is described in the subsections we do not see , so it is impossible to say anything before the whole bill is published