Concurred. On the off chance that you're utilizing a concentrated trade and make gains, at that point unquestionably try to pay due expenses since it's not justified, despite any potential benefits to later have the IRS point you at it (and when they point you at it they don't do it in a cordial way).
I have a theoretical heap of ~10% and a hodl pile of ~90%. My hodl stack hasn't contacted a trade in years and won't do as such in the impending years. I'm not going to pay one single penny in assessment over my hodl stack. My theoretical stack is the place where I do pay charge over the additions and so forth. It sucks, however there isn't anything that should be possible against it as long as you continue guessing on unified trades.
Topic: [2019-06-15] IRS turning its attention to recreational bitcoin investors (Read 9637 times)
December 09, 2020, 10:44:41 AM
December 26, 2019, 10:32:01 PM
@figmentofmyass. It is not a hard fork. It is a new blockchain where you need to make a one time swap migration from ETH1 to ETH2.
Is the swap as taxable event?
Is the swap as taxable event?
ah, i wasn't aware of this. i thought it was just a straightforward fork of the blockchain.
from what i'm reading here, it doesn't seem like a taxable event. there will essentially be two interoperable blockchains with a 1:1 peg, sort of like a sidechain. there is no "airdrop" occurring. with a one-way bridge, you need to effectively burn your 1.0 coins to receive 2.0 coins. and with a two-way bridge, it's just like locking coins up in LN or sidechains.
December 26, 2019, 09:00:07 PM
@figmentofmyass. It is not a hard fork. It is a new blockchain where you need to make a one time swap migration from ETH1 to ETH2.
Is the swap as taxable event?
Is the swap as taxable event?
December 26, 2019, 06:30:36 AM
I remembered this discussion when I was reading about Ethereum 2.0 and their plan on swapping ETH1 for their new ETH2 tokens. Does the taxable event also apply on Ethereum's swap?
isn't it just a hard fork like ethereum's past ones? the recent IRS guidance (confusing as it was) tried to speak to that scenario:
Quote
A hard fork occurs when a cryptocurrency undergoes a protocol change resulting in a permanent diversion from the legacy distributed ledger. This may result in the creation of a new cryptocurrency on a new distributed ledger in addition to the legacy cryptocurrency on the legacy distributed ledger. If your cryptocurrency went through a hard fork, but you did not receive any new cryptocurrency, whether through an airdrop (a distribution of cryptocurrency to multiple taxpayers’ distributed ledger addresses) or some other kind of transfer, you don’t have taxable income.
If a hard fork is followed by an airdrop and you receive new cryptocurrency, you will have taxable income in the taxable year you receive that cryptocurrency.
If a hard fork is followed by an airdrop and you receive new cryptocurrency, you will have taxable income in the taxable year you receive that cryptocurrency.
my reading of that is that if the old network is abandoned, there is no taxable income. an example of this would be ethereum's first hard fork from "frontier" to "homestead". if multiple viable networks emerge (as happened with ETC or BCH) then there may be taxable income incurred on receipt, depending when/where you received the tokens.
December 26, 2019, 05:29:35 AM
What gains? There are no gains until you sell any cryptocoin for fiat later. Does the American government tax people for paper gains from holding stocks.
The IRS says that trading a cryptocurrency for another cryptocurrency is a taxable event, even if the trade never touched fiat in any way. If you are using BTC to day trade an altcoin, or using a stable coin like USDT to day trade BTC, every single buy/sell/trade needs to be declared and have tax paid on it based on the market value in USD at the time of the trade.If overall you lost money in a financial year from trading crypto, you can file those losses to offset taxes you will pay on other income.
I remembered this discussion when I was reading about Ethereum 2.0 and their plan on swapping ETH1 for their new ETH2 tokens. Does the taxable event also apply on Ethereum's swap?
Almost definitely yes given that both chains will continue and you can swap one for the other - assuming nothing has changed since I last read about it. As stated above, even bartering is a taxable event.
The authoritarians (socialist, fascist, communist, any collectivists, etc) want the money and power and will do anything they can to realize it including making enough things illegal that everyone is guilty of something. Then they can use selectively enforcement to get compliance from difficult people. The US Constitution was written as a document of limited, enumerated powers. Since the late 1800s, the left's goal has been to turn it into a document of enumerated liberties in order to gain power and they have succeeded.
And as far as it being the IRS to blame as above, it isn't the IRS, it is the authoritarian collectivists who make the laws and then hire bureaucrats to enforce them. Blaming the IRS is misplaced, but useful to the authoritarians to have people blame them instead of the actual people who wrote and passed the laws-it allows them to keep getting elected in order to "fix" the problem with more laws and regulations.
December 25, 2019, 09:59:46 PM
What gains? There are no gains until you sell any cryptocoin for fiat later. Does the American government tax people for paper gains from holding stocks.
The IRS says that trading a cryptocurrency for another cryptocurrency is a taxable event, even if the trade never touched fiat in any way. If you are using BTC to day trade an altcoin, or using a stable coin like USDT to day trade BTC, every single buy/sell/trade needs to be declared and have tax paid on it based on the market value in USD at the time of the trade.If overall you lost money in a financial year from trading crypto, you can file those losses to offset taxes you will pay on other income.
I remembered this discussion when I was reading about Ethereum 2.0 and their plan on swapping ETH1 for their new ETH2 tokens. Does the taxable event also apply on Ethereum's swap?
June 27, 2019, 10:15:43 PM
@Carlton Banks. Also, everyone should deactivate their Facebook accounts, not only because of the up and coming Libra scam. It is worse than television. It is brainwashing us in ways much easier and deeper than before and turns us into sheep.
Facebook is having billions or users and they won't care if a few thousand accounts get deactivated. I would like to get some free Libra coins as promotional offer and I would later convert them to BTC or ETH. Let's treat Libra the same way as we treated Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV. Just collect the freebies and exchange them for something more valuable. I don't have any BSV in my wallet right now. I have converted all of them to BTC long back. Would do the same to Libra as well.
Why are you caring about Facebook? Care about yourself and your own freedom. Also, you can take it furthest by supporting and using good anonymous coins. Let us make it harder for the IRS to make a criminal out of innocent people like us hehehe.
June 27, 2019, 05:24:44 AM
I would like to get some free Libra coins as promotional offer and I would later convert them to BTC or ETH.
If that's even possible. Since Facebook will have complete control over Libra, I suspect you will only be able to sell them back to Facebook for fiat, and probably not for other crypto. And even if you could, you would have to give Facebook a bitcoin address which you own, which they will 100% use to track you as much as possible unless you really mix those coins.I also dumped my BCH immediately for a nice BTC boost, but I'm not going anywhere near Libra (or Facebook for that matter).
June 26, 2019, 10:35:44 PM
@Carlton Banks. Also, everyone should deactivate their Facebook accounts, not only because of the up and coming Libra scam. It is worse than television. It is brainwashing us in ways much easier and deeper than before and turns us into sheep.
Facebook is having billions or users and they won't care if a few thousand accounts get deactivated. I would like to get some free Libra coins as promotional offer and I would later convert them to BTC or ETH. Let's treat Libra the same way as we treated Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV. Just collect the freebies and exchange them for something more valuable. I don't have any BSV in my wallet right now. I have converted all of them to BTC long back. Would do the same to Libra as well.
June 26, 2019, 09:01:25 PM
@Carlton Banks. Also, everyone should deactivate their Facebook accounts, not only because of the up and coming Libra scam. It is worse than television. It is brainwashing us in ways much easier and deeper than before and turns us into sheep.
June 26, 2019, 02:14:44 AM
How do some banks help corporations evade taxes?
This is not fud. They not only help corporations or fellow bankers, some of them help drug cartels and other criminal organizations launder their money. You accuse me of fud? You open your eyes to the world you live in.
This is (another) part of the frustration I'm feeling on this issue
I cannot fathom why people would even consider continuing to feed the following wretched cycle:
- government tells lies to start resource wars
- government uses tax revenues to fund war
- regular people pay the taxes
- corporations and their most significant employees pay little to zero tax
- latest war ends, corporations "win" the contract to mine the minerals or reconstruct the chaos left behind
they're basically fucking everyone, exceptionally hard, and the age-old response was "well, there's nothing I can do about it"
Satoshi finally gave you the power to do something. Use it. How do you want to be remembered?
This isn't once in a blue moon. Or once in a lifetime. Nor once in a generation. Not even once in an era.
This is an opportunity for all time, never before has it been possible to change the balance of power on this planet so much. We shoulder a great deal of responsibility as to how events will proceed and whether things change for the better or the worse.
June 25, 2019, 11:15:53 PM
Instead of this, wouldn't a better use of their resources and time better directed to investigating certain multibillion and transnational companies for their tax evasion behavior? But of course, they'd like to target everyday Joes instead, with extremely tough tax codes that are hard to understand for specific circumstances.
Those corporations aren't tax evading. They're tax avoiding. They have enough lawyers to know that whatever they pull stands up to scrutiny even if it's offensive. That's perfectly legal and the conditions to foster it are created by legislators in the first place. If it's unintentional then that reflects poorly on their thoroughness.
Agreed. Those big corporations also often have the political connections to make some tax avoidance intentional hehehe.
Also, some banks help them evade taxes.
Dude, stop with the FUD. All tax avoidance is intentional, that is the definition of tax avoidance and there is nothing illegal about it. It is simply using the tax rules to your advantage, anyone can do it.
How do some banks help corporations evade taxes? Your just spreading nonsense.
This is not fud. They not only help corporations or fellow bankers, some of them help drug cartels and other criminal organizations launder their money. You accuse me of fud? You open your eyes to the world you live in. The banks are not your friends.
Do you want proof? Stop using Facebook and begin using the web properly. All the information you need is available.
June 25, 2019, 07:00:48 AM
how about SELL YOUR FREEDOM MONEY AND BE DONE WITH IT
all of you on this page are a bunch of selfish assholes
satoshi made this so we could use it as a tool against the corruption in this so-called democratic system, and the only thing you can think about is saving your tiny little asses.
pussies, each and every single one of you. You don't deserve the rights Bitcoin give you, please sell it to someone who values those rights
because if the big-bad government told you to give up 100% of your Bitcoin in taxes, you'd all do it anyway. It threatens their corporate monopoly you idiots, you don't even understand what's going on here
You said it Carlton. The idea of what Bitcoin is all about has been lost on most people now, they've become brainwashed by all the Wall St talk of whales, bears, bulls, taxes, laws & all the other corporate BS that spews out on various threads on BCT, especially the press section. People have become so blinded by profit & greed that they've completely forgotten how & why Bitcoin came about in the first place & what it's purpose actually is. They've been offered freedom on a plate but have become too scared to eat it in case they might break some law somewhere, now or in the future.
It's pathetic & sad TBH.
June 25, 2019, 04:14:11 AM
America are ready to go to war again and wars are expensive, so the IRS must find new ways to fund the war. < We already saw 1000s of soldiers being deployed to the Middle East again > 
Right, armies all over the world are using (well, borrowing against future) taxes to murder milllons of innocent people over resources
The IRS are helping to fund these wars and the people who thought that they can escape death & taxes, will soon face that reality. I pay my taxes, because I know tax evasion is a criminal offense in my country and I am too busy making money to have to waste my time in jail. 
Pay the damn taxes and be done with it.
Pay the damn taxes and be done with it.
how about SELL YOUR FREEDOM MONEY AND BE DONE WITH IT
all of you on this page are a bunch of selfish assholes
satoshi made this so we could use it as a tool against the corruption in this so-called democratic system, and the only thing you can think about is saving your tiny little asses.
pussies, each and every single one of you. You don't deserve the rights Bitcoin gives you, please sell it to someone who values those rights
because if the big-bad government told you to give up 100% of your Bitcoin in taxes, you'd all do it anyway. It threatens their corporate monopoly you idiots, you don't even understand what's going on here
June 25, 2019, 03:29:23 AM
All tax avoidance is intentional, that is the definition of tax avoidance and there is nothing illegal about it.
I think his point is that many of these multi-national multi-billion dollar companies spend a not insignificant amount of money lobbying, buying/paying politicians, making "gifts", etc., with the proviso that these politicians will then pass legislation to help them reduce or avoid their taxes. It's not illegal, sure, but it isn't exactly ethical.How do some banks help corporations evade taxes? Your just spreading nonsense.
Did you hear of the Panama Papers? Over 500 banks registered over 15,000 shell companies with the one off shore service provider that those documents leaked from. Deutsche Bank has had employees convicted for facilitating almost a billion dollars of tax evasion, with investigations ongoing. UBS was fined over 4 billion dollars for helping clients evade taxes. Santander is under investigation for over 11 billion dollars of suspected tax evasion. The list goes on. The biggest banks in the world frequently help clients to evade taxes. June 24, 2019, 09:26:53 PM
Instead of this, wouldn't a better use of their resources and time better directed to investigating certain multibillion and transnational companies for their tax evasion behavior? But of course, they'd like to target everyday Joes instead, with extremely tough tax codes that are hard to understand for specific circumstances.
Those corporations aren't tax evading. They're tax avoiding. They have enough lawyers to know that whatever they pull stands up to scrutiny even if it's offensive. That's perfectly legal and the conditions to foster it are created by legislators in the first place. If it's unintentional then that reflects poorly on their thoroughness.
Agreed. Those big corporations also often have the political connections to make some tax avoidance intentional hehehe.
Also, some banks help them evade taxes.
Dude, stop with the FUD. All tax avoidance is intentional, that is the definition of tax avoidance and there is nothing illegal about it. It is simply using the tax rules to your advantage, anyone can do it.
How do some banks help corporations evade taxes? Your just spreading nonsense.
June 24, 2019, 09:09:20 PM
Instead of this, wouldn't a better use of their resources and time better directed to investigating certain multibillion and transnational companies for their tax evasion behavior? But of course, they'd like to target everyday Joes instead, with extremely tough tax codes that are hard to understand for specific circumstances.
Those corporations aren't tax evading. They're tax avoiding. They have enough lawyers to know that whatever they pull stands up to scrutiny even if it's offensive. That's perfectly legal and the conditions to foster it are created by legislators in the first place. If it's unintentional then that reflects poorly on their thoroughness.
Agreed. Those big corporations also often have the political connections to make some tax avoidance intentional hehehe.
Also, some banks help them evade taxes.
June 21, 2019, 02:38:19 PM
Those corporations aren't tax evading. They're tax avoiding. They have enough lawyers to know that whatever they pull stands up to scrutiny even if it's offensive. That's perfectly legal and the conditions to foster it are created by legislators in the first place. If it's unintentional then that reflects poorly on their thoroughness.
As simple as the bold, they have enough lawyers...it's just a PITA to deal with large corporations because even if they are wrong they can make it a long drawn out process where in the end it took more time/effort/money to go after them than the government receives for doing it...IRS: We are auditing you
Them: Here are a few hundred thousand transactions have fun dealing with them
Lawyers: Here's more BS for you to look through
I'm guessing you've never been on the wrong side of government agencies before. You have it backwards. The IRS is happy to have a long drawn out process -- they will add financial penalties all along the way and even threaten you with criminal proceedings and prison time. You can't just drop endless undecipherable papers on the IRS. If you don't provide exactly what they want in the format they require, they will ignore you, say your company is noncompliant, and move forward with enforcement actions against you.
June 20, 2019, 07:42:25 PM
Instead of this, wouldn't a better use of their resources and time better directed to investigating certain multibillion and transnational companies for their tax evasion behavior? But of course, they'd like to target everyday Joes instead, with extremely tough tax codes that are hard to understand for specific circumstances.
Those corporations aren't tax evading. They're tax avoiding. They have enough lawyers to know that whatever they pull stands up to scrutiny even if it's offensive. That's perfectly legal and the conditions to foster it are created by legislators in the first place. If it's unintentional then that reflects poorly on their thoroughness.
IRS: We are auditing you
Them: Here are a few hundred thousand transactions have fun dealing with them
Lawyers: Here's more BS for you to look through
That's not entirely true. As someone who has handled audits for multi billion dollar companies there are instances where massive excel files are handed over, but that is only when requested as backup. None of these companies are avoiding taxes by making it too hard to audit them. When an audit happens, the IRS sends IDR's of exactly what they want and if you dont provide it in a format they find acceptable, they have no issues requesting more or for you to do the work to summarize it and will access tax based on what they can find if you dont comply.
June 20, 2019, 10:49:43 AM
Instead of this, wouldn't a better use of their resources and time better directed to investigating certain multibillion and transnational companies for their tax evasion behavior? But of course, they'd like to target everyday Joes instead, with extremely tough tax codes that are hard to understand for specific circumstances.
Those corporations aren't tax evading. They're tax avoiding. They have enough lawyers to know that whatever they pull stands up to scrutiny even if it's offensive. That's perfectly legal and the conditions to foster it are created by legislators in the first place. If it's unintentional then that reflects poorly on their thoroughness.
IRS: We are auditing you
Them: Here are a few hundred thousand transactions have fun dealing with them
Lawyers: Here's more BS for you to look through
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