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Topic: [2019-08-27] Craig Wright loses Kleiman case—billions in Bitcoin awarded to Klei - page 2. (Read 691 times)

BitHodler

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 28, 2019, 08:02:59 PM

My points are the following:

1. Wright tried to fool people by claiming that he is Satoshi
2. He made profits from BSV scam by triggering a pump-and-dump cycle
3. He harassed those who questioned his claim to be Satoshi, by filing lawsuits against them
4. In general, he tried to ruin the reputation of Bitcoin
5. He tried to steal someone else's invention, by filing a patent suite

I am saying that he needs to be punished for the above points. However, there are legal loopholes out there which protect Wright against these charges.

I tend to agree, but the focus should also extend to Calvin Ayre, a billionaire with the funds to initiate these massive pumps and dumps and at the same time attack other networks.

A lot of the financial backing comes from Calvin, which people tend to ignore because they think Craig himself is a billionaire, which he clearly isn't. Craig is Calvin's muppet and he knows exactly how to make him say and do things.

And then we can also look at the rest of the nChain squad that are providing him the necessary means to scam people. Roger Ver for a while provided support to Craig as well. Scammers paradise.

Stedsm

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Quote from: dunfida on August 29, 2019, 01:17:14 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on August 29, 2019, 09:52:38 AM

The most surprising thing about the news is that the BSV prices have remained stable. I would have expected them to crash by at least 50%, after the judgement was pronounced. The last time I checked, the exchange rates showed hardly any change against BTC. That could mean that the market is not taking this news seriously. Either the traders are not aware of it, or they don't think that this order can be implemented.

Not all news related to its owner or founder would give out significant effect into its own shitcoins price and this is an example of it.

CW loses the case but how he would pay up those billions in bitcoin if he doesnt even have the access on it? Paying up by his own wallet?
What a wrecking situation for him.Does he learn something on not to mess up on proclaiming an entity? Cheesy

I reckon he'd just try to get the case reopened through some other sources and claim that his old claims were not truth and he's a Faketoshi and not the real Satoshi. Else, he's got the only option to save himself from this unnecessary dilemma, just go ask Kleimann if he lets him $u*k his [)!
I'm extremely happy for whatever this guy is facing, you deserve an extremely hard fuck in your nose, shithead CG.

dunfida

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on August 29, 2019, 09:52:38 AM

THX 1138

full member

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Relaying as an impartial messenger:

Quote from: jseverson on August 27, 2019, 09:19:27 PM

Quote from: 1Referee on August 27, 2019, 06:00:19 PM

The funniest part of this case is that crypto youtubers have started talking about a looming $2 billion Bitcoin dump. What a bunch of attention seekers.

CSW started this himself. In an interview, he says that KIeiman's estate will have to pay a 40% estate tax for the inheritance, meaning they're going to have to dump around 200k BTC. This is wrong though, because as the article notes in a correction, Florida has already eliminated estate taxes.

You’re probably correct that Craig surreptitiously initiated the court case. I have explained why at my following linked post. Read my following linked post and you will understand everything about who I posit created Bitcoin, why they are going to temporarily destroy Bitcoin Core, and how I posit the legacy, immutable Bitcoin protocol will come back later after some years as the global reserve currency backing their planned 666 Facebook Libra global medium-of-exchange:

Long term advance notice!

P.S. Note you seem to not be aware that there is a federal estate tax in the U.S.A..

Vishnu.Reang

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cryptokwuk

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 28, 2019, 09:30:40 PM

Quote from: TheIrishman on August 28, 2019, 05:20:41 PM

Australian who says he invented bitcoin ordered to hand over up to $5bn

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/28/australian-who-says-he-invented-bitcoin-ordered-to-hand-over-up-to-5bn

<< US court orders Craig Wright to share cryptocurrency haul with the estate of American programmer David Kleiman. >>

This article sounds like exactly something that Wright would want to be published - the main takeaway an average non-bitcoiner joe (and even some bitcoiners) is that Wright has 10 billions because he and Kleiman invented Bitcoin. Words like "allegedly" and "supposedly" will be ignored, because that's what people always do when they read news. I don't understand the US justice system, why no one bothered to first establish whether those coins exist or not, how many coins there are, where is the trust they are supposedly held by and so on. Everything is so fishy about this case.

I've repeatedly mentioned this, you can be pretty sure that they verified the existence and ownership of the funds before proceeding to court, there wouldn't even be a case otherwise. As much as the justice system is in error, we easily glance over the fact that 99.9% of all cases just gets handled properly, there are many checks and safeguards in place and many people involved that check and double check everything.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: TheIrishman on August 28, 2019, 05:20:41 PM

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 28, 2019, 09:33:27 AM

{snip}

what has that got to do with you wanting Wright to be punished for anything, whether it's just or not, and whether or not people he deceived are compensated for their loss? It's "nothing", isn't it?

All I am saying is that Wright needs to be punished. I don't care on which charges he is being punished. I agree with you, when you say that those who lost their money in the BSV scam many not receive any compensation from this judgement. And even worse, the amount is likely to go to the family of another scammer, Dave Kleiman.

My points are the following:

1. Wright tried to fool people by claiming that he is Satoshi
2. He made profits from BSV scam by triggering a pump-and-dump cycle
3. He harassed those who questioned his claim to be Satoshi, by filing lawsuits against them
4. In general, he tried to ruin the reputation of Bitcoin
5. He tried to steal someone else's invention, by filing a patent suite

I am saying that he needs to be punished for the above points. However, there are legal loopholes out there which protect Wright against these charges.

TheIrishman

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Carlton Banks

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 28, 2019, 08:56:14 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 28, 2019, 03:20:42 AM

Scammers and getting scammed is an unfortunate part of capitalism. If all investments were enforced as 100% safe, there would be none on offer. It's always a risk, and judging the risk vs the potential reward is your responsibility and yours alone. I didn't buy any scammy ICO's, because I invested in the knowledge that led me to deduce that they are mostly scams.

You can't call those users who sold BSV at that time period as scammers.

i didn't

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 27, 2019, 08:48:26 PM

A few months back, he pulled off a major scam with his shitcoin BSV and was able to accumulate hundreds of millions of USD in funds.

i was referring to you saying this about Wright

what has that got to do with you wanting Wright to be punished for anything, whether it's just or not, and whether or not people he deceived are compensated for their loss? It's "nothing", isn't it?

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 28, 2019, 03:20:42 AM

{snip}

Scammers and getting scammed is an unfortunate part of capitalism. If all investments were enforced as 100% safe, there would be none on offer. It's always a risk, and judging the risk vs the potential reward is your responsibility and yours alone. I didn't buy any scammy ICO's, because I invested in the knowledge that led me to deduce that they are mostly scams.

You can't call those users who sold BSV at that time period as scammers. After the hard-fork happened, everyone who had previously owned Bitcoin received an equivalent amount of BSV in their wallets. In my case also, I received the coins in my Blockchain.com wallet. I wasn't sure about what to do with those coins. But when Blockchain.com announced that they are ending support for BSV, I had no choice other than selling those coins at whatever prices I could manage.

BitHodler

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This is the first time this year news coverage of CSW is actually worth reading through. We have been bombarded with so many crap articles that only helped him gain even more sympathy from his delusional supporters.

Nothing will ever be enough for CSW's supporters to distance themselves from him. All this bad publicity is helping him to play the victim card which then yields even more loyal supporters.

This case while CSW technically lost it, hasn't yielded the other parties anything since there isn't anything of significance to pay out. CSW got his much needed dose of publicity, the rest got nothing but hot air. Nice.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 27, 2019, 08:48:26 PM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 27, 2019, 04:07:31 PM

I still disagree with the treatment of Craig Wright, despite him bringing the case (the idea that such a prosecution is even considered by the so-called justice system is the root of the problem, he just tried to take advantage of it)

if the world knows he's a dangerously bizarre scam artist, isn't that punishment enough? I would suggest that here in the information age, it would have been

I don't agree with you. A few months back,

[snip]

Now he is going to lose all that money that he got by cheating the users earlier. Karma is a bitch, now deal with it.

so, 2 wrongs make 1 right? I disagree with that

what about all the people who never did anything wrong, who have libel cases brought against them, which they lose, either unjustly or corruptly?

meanwhile the people that Wright hoodwinked with BSV (and I'm not even convinced there were that many) will get none of this settlement, while the Kleiman family will get the promise of something (and in the end nothing, as Wright doesn't own significant assets of any kind), and what for? Kleiman sounds like he was lying too, so what sort of justice is that, taking money from a fraudster, and giving it to the family of a deceased fraudster? That makes zero sense, sorry

you're justifying this excessively litigious culture that brought about Wright's come-uppence, yet simultaneously excoriating free trade and capitalism.

Scammers and getting scammed is an unfortunate part of capitalism. If all investments were enforced as 100% safe, there would be none on offer. It's always a risk, and judging the risk vs the potential reward is your responsibility and yours alone. I didn't buy any scammy ICO's, because I invested in the knowledge that led me to deduce that they are mostly scams.

Kakmakr

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Interesting turn of events. Grin

I expect that Craig Wright would now turn around and say that he lost access to those private keys, because he obviously do not have that kind of money to pay to Kleiman. Grin

Let's say he has access to that kind of money, then I would spend most of that to appeal the verdict and pay for the best representation to reverse this decision on appeal hearings. Roll Eyes

This is only the start of a long process and Kleiman will most probably not see a fraction of that money in the end. Craig Wright said he would crash the Bitcoin price, well I guess it is a good time to cash out his millions now, because he is going to need that to pay for all those lawyer fees. Grin

jseverson

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 27, 2019, 06:00:19 PM

The funniest part of this case is that crypto youtubers have started talking about a looming $2 billion Bitcoin dump. What a bunch of attention seekers.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 27, 2019, 04:07:31 PM

I don't agree with you. A few months back, he pulled off a major scam with his shitcoin BSV and was able to accumulate hundreds of millions of USD in funds. First, he filed a few lawsuits against individuals who rejected his claim as the original "Satoshi Nakamoto". This crashed the BSV prices, and many of the exchanges decided to delist the coin from their platforms (the action by exchanges also look questionable now). As per reliable sources, Wright amassed a huge volume of BSV at dirt cheap rates.

Then he stepped in with his second part of the plan. He filed a patent application for BTC and Blockchain, which resulted in BSV prices shooting up by 250%. He sold most of the coins that he accumulated previously at a profit, and in the end became richer by a few hundred million USD. What he did was not exactly illegal as per the regulations. So he can't be jailed although crypto users lost huge amounts of money. But as we say, what goes around comes around. Now he is going to lose all that money that he got by cheating the users earlier. Karma is a bitch, now deal with it.

hatshepsut93

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I think there's a good chance this lawsuit was organized by Wright himself - he just paid some money to Kleimans so they sue him so that he later can tell everyone how the court has proven that he is Satoshi. This whole case should have started with determining whether the coins exist or not, but no one did that. Just watch how in near future CWS won't go to jail, won't have to pay any fines or give any money to Kleimans.

1Referee

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Quote from: cryptokwuk on August 27, 2019, 04:38:04 PM

Y'all forgetting that he had to prove access to the funds earlier in the trial before they proceeded.

He never proved having access to the funds. All he did was provide a list of addresses containing x amount of coins in total, which any noob can do.

Craig is the type of scammer to set up a watch only account in his client and pretend that these coins are his. If people are ignorant enough, they might fall for it, but I doubt that this simple cheat is something the judge has overlooked. If the judge did anyway, then that would prove how incompetent the whole system is.

The funniest part of this case is that crypto youtubers have started talking about a looming $2 billion Bitcoin dump. What a bunch of attention seekers.

cryptokwuk

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Y'all forgetting that he had to prove access to the funds earlier in the trial before they proceeded.

NewStakes

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on August 26, 2019, 08:04:20 PM

Craig Wright loses Kleiman case—billions in Bitcoin awarded to Kleiman estate

Craig Wright lost the Kleiman case. The judge ordered Wright to part with half of his pre-2014 Bitcoin—worth over $5 billion—to the Kleiman estate, alongside considerable intellectual property

https://cryptoslate.com/craig-wright-loses-kleiman-case-billions-bitcoin-awarded/

Does this mean the court also "ruled" that Craig is Satoshi?

Edit:
"That said, the judge did not determine whether Wright was Bitcoin’s creator, Satoshi Nakamoto. Though his behavior in court certainly calls into question his claims to the title."