[2020-04-13] Coin Mixer’s Record Month Proves Bitcoin Users Want Anonymity - page 2.

hv_

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 19, 2020, 02:31:48 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 18, 2020, 11:04:46 PM

Why would regular people who use bitcoin as a speculative investment want to mix their coins?

Because privacy is a fundamental right. You don't have to be doing something illegal to want to keep your financial dealings private or to obfuscate how much bitcoin you are holding.

Why do regular people who own fiat not post their bank statements publicly?
Why do regular people who own gold not post their holdings publicly?
Why do regular people who own stocks and shares not post their holdings publicly?
Why should bitcoin users be any different?

Bitcoin is unique in that anyone in the world can see what you are holding if they know your address(es), and so bitcoin is unique in its need for mixing services.

Lol, you re just on the track to enable, scale up crime. Nothing else.

Average Joe doesn't care cause he doesn't do anything wrong and in case u need to proof where you ve you funds from, or u gonna lose it / getting confiscated cause u cannot proof they might be stolen/ tainted

Only criminal or dumb idiots try to hide, or help to

Btw, privacy never means anonymity

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: squatter on April 19, 2020, 03:13:14 AM

-snip-

This is part of the argument I make when talking to people about why they should care about their online privacy.

Many people say they aren't overly concerned about their online privacy because they either don't think they are doing anything illegal/immoral/wrong/embarrassing/etc. that they want to keep private, or because they don't fear their government using that information against them. That may be the case now, but what about for the next 50 years? Do you trust every future administration/government for the rest of your life? Because they will have access to your data too. Do you trust them not to pass any laws that might make things you are saying or doing now cause issues for you in the future. Do you trust them to use your data against you? What about all the administrations of all the other countries your government shares your data with, and there are many.

There could be any number of laws passed, new governments, global developments, etc., in the rest of your life that will make you wish you paid much closer attention to your online privacy, such as Executive Order 6102. Mixing or otherwise anonymizing your bitcoin is good practice for everyone, regardless of what you are using bitcoin for.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 19, 2020, 02:31:48 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 18, 2020, 11:04:46 PM

Why would regular people who use bitcoin as a speculative investment want to mix their coins?

Because privacy is a fundamental right. You don't have to be doing something illegal to want to keep your financial dealings private or to obfuscate how much bitcoin you are holding.

In these uncertain times, it's important to remember the stakes. It may seem unlikely now, but another Executive Order 6102 -- directed at Bitcoin -- is not impossible. The less that exchanges and governments know about your holdings, the better.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 18, 2020, 11:04:46 PM

Why would regular people who use bitcoin as a speculative investment want to mix their coins?

Because privacy is a fundamental right. You don't have to be doing something illegal to want to keep your financial dealings private or to obfuscate how much bitcoin you are holding.

Why do regular people who own fiat not post their bank statements publicly?
Why do regular people who own gold not post their holdings publicly?
Why do regular people who own stocks and shares not post their holdings publicly?
Why should bitcoin users be any different?

Bitcoin is unique in that anyone in the world can see what you are holding if they know your address(es), and so bitcoin is unique in its need for mixing services.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: buwaytress on April 18, 2020, 03:42:27 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 17, 2020, 08:48:56 PM

Is there available data where it graphs for what those legal transactions to bitcoin mixing are? There might be more criminals that have become more sophisticated in their bitcoin laundry methods hehehe.

Actually, technology and sophistication come before the crime. Criminals are simply among those more likely to be early adopters of new/emerging technology. That's a proven enforcement pattern, which is why enforcement have also been known to recruit former criminals -- how else do you get ahead of the curve right?

But yeah. Coming back to the headline, that's all the stats prove. That Bitcoin users want more privacy.

Agreed. For this reason, did criminals find a new method to trick Chainanalysis and make it appear that they are regular people randomly mixing their coins?

Why would regular people who use bitcoin as a speculative investment want to mix their coins?

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 17, 2020, 08:48:56 PM

Is there available data where it graphs for what those legal transactions to bitcoin mixing are?

I provided the link for my data in my post above - https://register.gotowebinar.com/recording/8980410054773689612

You can enter anything in the "Name" and "Email" boxes - you don't need to receive an email with a code or similar to progress to the webinar video. If you skip to 37:13 in the video, you'll see the complete breakdown of source of funds sent to mixers. Combining centralized, p2p exchanges, and other mixers, you account for three quarters of all coins being sent through mixers.

buwaytress

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 17, 2020, 08:48:56 PM

Is there available data where it graphs for what those legal transactions to bitcoin mixing are? There might be more criminals that have become more sophisticated in their bitcoin laundry methods hehehe.

Actually, technology and sophistication come before the crime. Criminals are simply among those more likely to be early adopters of new/emerging technology. That's a proven enforcement pattern, which is why enforcement have also been known to recruit former criminals -- how else do you get ahead of the curve right?

But yeah. Coming back to the headline, that's all the stats prove. That Bitcoin users want more privacy.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: buwaytress on April 15, 2020, 01:30:20 AM

The stats/news shown by ETFBitcoin and oeleo show that only a minority of transactions (2% is only 1 in 50!) related to Bitcoin mixing are for illicit purposes. And we already saw this drop even as early as 2016/17 -- post-Silk Road, people already understood Bitcoin wasn't good for deep dark bad things. Those who didn't get the lessons learnt it during the Alphabay takedown in 2017.

Users are wisening up and asking for anonymity, cause for celebration, and vindication of Bitcoin's own development direction towards privacy.

Is there available data where it graphs for what those legal transactions to bitcoin mixing are? There might be more criminals that have become more sophisticated in their bitcoin laundry methods hehehe.

Vishnu.Reang

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Governments around the world are becoming more populist and moving to the Socialist mode. They want votes from the welfare rats, at the expense of the hard-working population. This phenomenon is occurring in almost all the continents. And the problem with Socialism is that within a short time, you run out of rich people whom you can loot. All these rich people would either migrate to some other country, or they will become poor after losing their wealth.

The tax authorities are obviously afraid of mixers, because they give an option for the Bitcoin users to refuse unjust demands from the IT department. Let's see for how long they will tolerate them.

buwaytress

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The stats/news shown by ETFBitcoin and oeleo show that only a minority of transactions (2% is only 1 in 50!) related to Bitcoin mixing are for illicit purposes. And we already saw this drop even as early as 2016/17 -- post-Silk Road, people already understood Bitcoin wasn't good for deep dark bad things. Those who didn't get the lessons learnt it during the Alphabay takedown in 2017.

Users are wisening up and asking for anonymity, cause for celebration, and vindication of Bitcoin's own development direction towards privacy.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@malevolent. Exchanges can also declare a hack then issue a token to sell to their users to help the exchange raise the funds required to replace the stolen funds. This money carousel scheme was created by Bitfinex before hehehehe.

malevolent

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Quote from: NotATether on April 13, 2020, 06:51:20 PM

In the name of compliance, your seized funds go to the exchange's bottom line. Which, more often than not, is itself stolen by hackers in the event of an exchange hack. So we lose, eventually the exchange loses too, and the only people who win from this are the very criminals the AML system was designed to stop.

Criminals and the tax man, assuming exchanges report the seized money as income.

...unless, oh wait, they declare they have been hacked.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/19/korean-crypto-exchange-bithumb-says-it-lost-over-30m-following-a-hack/

stompix

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I wonder if this is a simple increase of users with a median volume or is just somebody with a huge stash using their service to clean coins.
The "record" is still just only 1000 BTC up for a month so if we assume somebody is doing this twice with an exchange in a middle to further clean his footsteps the sum becomes ridiculous small, to signal a change in users' behavior.

I highly doubt that the average Joe (omg, I've written hoe the first time: Grin

) has suddenly realized it's better that nobody knows where his coins are coming from.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 13, 2020, 01:32:18 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 12, 2020, 07:26:05 PM

The article also mentioned that Binance Singapore froze customer's accounts because it does not tolerate transactions that are directly and indirectly associated with businesses that offer gambling, darknet and mixing services.

Seriously, screw Binance and screw all services which pull crap like this.

Oh, Binance again, I simply can't get enough when I hear how much they are fucking with their users and still there is a mass of newbies bowing down to their god CZ and praising how much this cancerous entity is doing for the crypto world.
Btw, you know Binance is running its business in Singapore without a real license, right?
So they will bend down to any ~~request~~ order from the Monetary Authority of Singapore!

Grab your popcorn and be ready for some serious fireworks when the EU will start looking at what they are doing in Malta.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on April 13, 2020, 08:03:06 PM

I am starting to think we're slowly moving towards the point where we're going to launch some technology we'll auto-destroy ourselves with - very weird times we're living in.

I think it's already happening with the advent of things like Google Home and Google Nest. Not content with simply recording your online activities, corporations have now moved to recording everything that happens inside your own home. Not only that, but people are paying for the privilege of putting themselves under 24/7 surveillance. The only thing they can't do yet is record your thoughts, but I have no doubt that given enough time the technology to do that will exist and Google or similar will release a "thought assistant", and people will pay for that too.

Quote from: Glenn Greenwald

No matter the specific techniques involved, historically mass surveillance has had several constant attributes. Initially, it is always the country’s dissidents and marginalized who bear the brunt of the surveillance, leading those who support the government or are merely apathetic to mistakenly believe they are immune. And history shows that the mere existence of a mass surveillance apparatus, regardless of how it is used, is in itself sufficient to stifle dissent. A citizenry that is aware of always being watched quickly becomes a compliant and fearful one.

Such mass surveillance is the first step on the road to government doing whatever they like.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: gentlemand on April 13, 2020, 12:58:53 PM

It's very unfortunate that seeking privacy makes you a marked man.

Sometimes I feel like the entire society is just a glorified herd.
Yes, you're right, it's quite usual that the ones that "stand out" with their privacy settings get to be considered to "have something to hide" and the focus can get onto them. (It doesn't always happen like this though).

But this is imho related to the fact many can't comprehend others have different way of thinking and different reasons (the crypto example is that people may seek for mixers because they are not comfortable others peaking into their pockets; of course, there will always be the bad guys too using mixers).

20kevin20

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Quote from: gentlemand on April 13, 2020, 12:58:53 PM

It's very unfortunate that seeking privacy makes you a marked man. If the base level of transparency that Bitcoin has was applied to conventional transactions people would be rutting in the streets and firing politicians out of cannons.

We've been taught that way. You don't have a Facebook, Twitter or Instagram? You're considered a weirdo. I am starting to think we're slowly moving towards the point where we're going to launch some technology we'll auto-destroy ourselves with - very weird times we're living in.

The way they educate us since we're born to be 100% transparent with the government and submit to them while they're hiding in the dark is disgusting. It's either all or none, but it takes such events as pandemics to find out that we've been paying taxes to have pandemic charities set up asking for donations and our grandparents & parents have worked hard to bring down communism for hospitals to take them off ICUs* and so on.

They're literally shitting on every single thing our past generations paid, worked & fought for.

* I get the point of removing the ones with the least chances of survival from ICUs to put those with the highest chance on them. But if govs were to take proper precaution, we would've had no more situations like overcrowded hospitals.

NotATether

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bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: malevolent on April 13, 2020, 03:28:32 PM

Until all payments are indistinguishable exchanges will keep acting like this. As long as tracking Bitcoin users/coins is possible, doing that is seen as being 'compliant' with AML regulations, recommendations, etc.

In the name of compliance, your seized funds go to the exchange's bottom line. Which, more often than not, is itself stolen by hackers in the event of an exchange hack. So we lose, eventually the exchange loses too, and the only people who win from this are the very criminals the AML system was designed to stop.

malevolent

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 13, 2020, 01:32:18 AM

Seriously, screw Binance and screw all services which pull crap like this. This is the kind of thing we moved away from fiat to try to escape - third party entities having control over your money, telling you what you are and are not allowed to spend your own money on, censoring your transactions, etc. If Binance don't like gambling, fine, don't provide gambling services. But tracking my bitcoin after it has been withdrawn from Binance and then shutting my account down because they found out I later took part in some gambling is some next level privacy invasion. Just another reason to add to the endless list of reasons to never used centralized scam exchanges like this.

Quote from: gentlemand on April 13, 2020, 12:58:53 PM

It's very unfortunate that seeking privacy makes you a marked man. If the base level of transparency that Bitcoin has was applied to conventional transactions people would be rutting in the streets and firing politicians out of cannons.

Until all payments are indistinguishable exchanges will keep acting like this. As long as tracking Bitcoin users/coins is possible, doing that is seen as being 'compliant' with AML regulations, recommendations, etc.

gentlemand

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It's very unfortunate that seeking privacy makes you a marked man. If the base level of transparency that Bitcoin has was applied to conventional transactions people would be rutting in the streets and firing politicians out of cannons.

LeGaulois

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The thing is the majority don't care about privacy, it's especially available for the persons entering into crypto the past years since they're only interested in speculating (and since they need to use a middleman (exchange platform) which ask your personal information...)
They don't care about who does what for which purpose, how to do this and that. Nope all that is interesting them is how to deposit money, to buy BTC and to stat to speculate

Years ago people were talking about tech, nowadays they talk about trading, pump, and dump, etc. Years ago we were talking about decentralization, nowadays people massively use centralized services.

Privacy is a valid argument for us but not for others and you can even avoid using it with them.

Topic: [2020-04-13] Coin Mixer’s Record Month Proves Bitcoin Users Want Anonymity - page 2. (Read 656 times)