2.5 million US truckers say they'll quit over vaccine mandate - page 2.

shogun47

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Quote from: Rufsilf on December 02, 2021, 10:48:31 AM

We'll see what will happen because either way there will be some implications. I just can't imagine what would be the reason for the truck drivers for rejecting the vaccines over the cost of their work, surely so much families will be affected. Imagine 2.5 Million truckers? There must be a reason to it why they won't like to get vaccinated.
But if eventually they will quit or just stop the job for even a week, the supply chain will surely be heavily disrupted, along the trucker's families and inflation will follow because of the shortage of products. Forget about Elon Musk for now, as if Elon can provide these much trucks or robots to replace this truckers immediately. He can't even get the Tesla model to perfection.

I know two people who had to spend several weeks in an intensive care unit with a ventilator. That was in April this year and one very fit guy, no smoking and no alcohol, in his mid-fifties isn't even close to half of a recovery. He ran a successful business and his son now overtook his role. He aged several years in his face within just weeks. Ever since I saw him not too long ago there was no doubt in my mind I would take the vaccine, especially because I also wanted to help protecting my parents.

What I am asking myself how many of these truckers have really seen what can happen to you if you have a bad symptomatic infection? I am not judging anyone of them for their decision even though I think the data is good enough to justify the vaccination. Also how is it possible that really 2.5 million truckers agree so hard on rejecting a vaccine mandate? Are they all sufficiently well informed? Are they making their very own decision after listening to their doctor? There seems to be a lot of group dynamic at play.

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I expect the desire to serve should be greater than worries of what wearing mask(when necessary) to avoid vaccine can do. I think using the right mask rules should be alternative to taking vaccines. I'm more concerned about people unintentionally trying to quicken a full takeover. We should use the little time we have to properly prepare and save as many people as possible.
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Rufsilf

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We'll see what will happen because either way there will be some implications. I just can't imagine what would be the reason for the truck drivers for rejecting the vaccines over the cost of their work, surely so much families will be affected. Imagine 2.5 Million truckers? There must be a reason to it why they won't like to get vaccinated.
But if eventually they will quit or just stop the job for even a week, the supply chain will surely be heavily disrupted, along the trucker's families and inflation will follow because of the shortage of products. Forget about Elon Musk for now, as if Elon can provide these much trucks or robots to replace this truckers immediately. He can't even get the Tesla model to perfection.

shogun47

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Quote from: Gyfts on November 26, 2021, 09:21:04 PM

This sums up US Covid policy really well, in fact.

A trucker, sitting alone in his/her truck for the majority of the day, would need to be vaccinated to protect who from catching Covid, exactly? The truck? The argument for a vaccine mandate was that an unvaxxed person could transmit Covid to someone that is also not vaccinated, but this begs the question as to how a truck driver is going to infect someone when they're sitting by themselves in a truck for most of the day.

Anyways, the implications of this are more supply chain issues and low economic growth. Shipping and logistics are the base of the manufacturing industries of any country, so removing transportation out of the equation ensures everything grinds to a halt.

They say inflation was due to the supply chain issue, and not a high money supply. Well, what happens to inflation when you stop truckers from doing their jobs if the result is scarcity of goods? More inflation.

The supply chain issues can become really intense. I would say that 2.5 million truck drivers is a number significant enough to cause some serious issues to the most relevant supply chains like food, energy and some other important stuff. Great Britain also collapsed for a while. I think it was around 100.000 truckers over there who stopped working and they had no gas at their gas stations and devastating conditions in the retail area. Now we are talking about 100.000 here. 2.5 million for the United States, oh oh...

alpamar99

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What is certain is that when that many people stop at the same time, it will immediately create chaos everywhere because indeed they are one of the frontlines in several vital shipments, one of which is staple food and other necessities.
This of course will be very influential because the supply that should be sent at the specified time will be hampered a lot because of the absence of a driver who does stop.
The worst thing is that there is definitely a scarcity of a product and goods will happen everywhere.

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Quote from: darewaller on November 28, 2021, 01:33:05 PM

I would say let them go, I am sure there will be people with vaccination who would LOVE to get paid that much.

If you are not from the US, you certainly don't care what will happen there and whether all the trucks will stop, and you don't understand how much chaos that would cause not only there, but also globally. If you think it’s easy to replace millions of trained truck drivers with others overnight, then you’re grossly mistaken - it’s not a job that has a surplus of workers.

Quote from: darewaller on November 28, 2021, 01:33:05 PM

...sorry but I rather starve them then accept their blackmail.

If you ever get into a situation where you’re hungry and you can’t buy food, remember your words. I'm not a truck driver, but I realize how important they are in the whole chain - if they stop, everything else stops.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on November 26, 2021, 06:46:05 PM

Quote

Millions of truckers are balking at President Joe Biden’s workplace vaccine mandate, which would be catastrophic for the nation’s supply chain problem if it is enforced, an American Trucking Associations executive told House members this week.

“We’ve tried to be very clear to the administration — I understand the logic behind it — but if you do this, these are the consequences,” said ATA President Chris Spear. “So if you’re trying to solve the supply chain problem, you’re actually compounding it and actually hurting the very problem you’re trying to fix.”

ATA is the nation’s largest trucking trade group. Spear testified in front of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee on supply chain problems.

....
Not certain what the implications of this would be. If there are implications.

I suppose it hinges upon whether truckers in 2021 are considered skilled or unskilled labor. Would a 2.5 million chunk of the workforce quitting create a vacuum which could easily be filled. The term independent contractors used to describe the trucking industry. Is often used to describe employment conditions that do not fit the label. Mixed martial artists in the UFC and pro wrestlers in WWE are both considered independent contractors. With a great deal of controversy surrounding the terminology and whether it is apt.

The only thing for certain is, Elon Musk is working somewhere to build trucks with no steering wheels that are robot driven.

Perhaps 2.5 million departing truckers will give Elon the vacuum he needs to push his robot truck drivers. That could rank in the top 5 of the most predictable things happening atm. As crazy as it may sound.

I think being vaccinated is a good thing, but there are certain proposed regulations like this which are too silly to impose and poorly thought out. I'd say trucking should be one of the last professions to be targeted with this sort of mandate as the often work alone in already tough conditions as it is. You are forcing people who are already isolated for 99% of the time they're doing a job - sure they travel long distances and should be sensible enough to wear a mask in crowded places, but beyond that they are some of the least likely people to be spreading it. Anyone in retail or hospitality has way more interactions that could spread a virus like this far easier.

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Quote from: Anonylz on November 27, 2021, 01:51:21 PM

My question is why are the truckers refusing to get vaccinated! They will rather quit their job than get the vaccine, is it that there are any noticeable effects after taking the vaccine or what are their reasons! There must be a reason for the not to want it, between quiting their job will not necessarily solve any problem rather they will increase the number of unemployed people in the country,
It is better they state their reason(s) make it clear so that a solution can be made.

Because it is their right, now do not take me wrong, I took the vaccine at the first opportunity that I got, but at the end of the day people by nature hate being forced to do anything and if you try to do it there is going to be a backlash, it is as simple as that, also you need to understand that while it is hard to generalize, a truck driver will spend a lot of time on their own which means they need a certain profile to take this, and that kind of person many times is doing that job because they do not want to take orders from anyone, which is precisely what Biden is doing here.

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Quote from: TheNineClub on November 28, 2021, 05:15:11 PM

I mean, if they do quit now that could seriously impact the economic flow.

What's hurting the economic flow is this vaccine mandate. Everything would be smoothly transitioning into the new normal amidst the pandemic if only the governments not force people to take the vaccine. There's an uprising against this vaccine mandate or vaccine passport almost all over the world.

If mothers are allowed to kill their own child inside their womb because they have the freedom over their own body, why are the governments now taking over the body of every single citizen and force to vaccinate it against a virus that does not really kill?

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I know this is not fully related to the post, but what's the situation with selfdriving trucks? I mean, not to play devil's advocate, but truckers could in the near future loose their bargaining advantage. I mean, if they do quit now that could seriously impact the economic flow.

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Quote from: eaLiTy on November 28, 2021, 02:50:08 PM

It is not just the truckers that are quitting

That's correct. Just the truckers quitting may halt the movement of many goods - see what has happened in UK - and they're quite powerful.
But you're right, people from far too many fields are quitting. It doesn't look good at all.
Will this trigger a real crisis? Maybe. And I don't see any other solution than opening the borders widely - then there will be a huge influx of people who will want to get those jobs and do whatever it's needed to get them. Of course, I can't realistically expect that to happen.

Quote from: eaLiTy on November 28, 2021, 02:50:08 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on November 26, 2021, 06:46:05 PM

Perhaps 2.5 million departing truckers will give Elon the vacuum he needs to push his robot truck drivers. That could rank in the top 5 of the most predictable things happening atm. As crazy as it may sound.

I doubt, AI trucks will be in the roads in the near future, but in the next few years it will be a reality as Elon and team are working on it.

The technology is not as good as advertised. Not yet. They can't do this so soon and at such a scale. Not yet.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Hydrogen on November 26, 2021, 06:46:05 PM

I suppose it hinges upon whether truckers in 2021 are considered skilled or unskilled labor. Would a 2.5 million chunk of the workforce quitting create a vacuum which could easily be filled. The term independent contractors used to describe the trucking industry. Is often used to describe employment conditions that do not fit the label. Mixed martial artists in the UFC and pro wrestlers in WWE are both considered independent contractors. With a great deal of controversy surrounding the terminology and whether it is apt.

It is not just the truckers that are quitting over the vaccine mandate, government officials all over the US are quitting their job including police officers, army, fire fighters are so on and it will create a chaos that can be seen only in movies like purge. The idea behind independent contracts is that they are not getting a monthly or annual salary, WWE wrestlers are getting paid annually and hence they cannot be termed as independent contracts as they work over 250 to 300 days a year, but that is not the case with MMA fighters, they only get paid when they fight and if they decide to take a break for years, they can do so.

Basically when you are paid during your working hours and not contracted to an annual salary you are an independent contractor.

Quote from: Hydrogen on November 26, 2021, 06:46:05 PM

The only thing for certain is, Elon Musk is working somewhere to build trucks with no steering wheels that are robot driven.

Perhaps 2.5 million departing truckers will give Elon the vacuum he needs to push his robot truck drivers. That could rank in the top 5 of the most predictable things happening atm. As crazy as it may sound.

I doubt, AI trucks will be in the roads in the near future, but in the next few years it will be a reality as Elon and team are working on it.

darewaller

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I would say let them go, I am sure there will be people with vaccination who would LOVE to get paid that much. These truckers think that they could feel untouchable just because they are solving a problem? What are we going to do if all doctors said they are not getting vaccinated? What happens if all police force decided not to get vaccinated, what happens if all fast food workers declined it? Are we going to have none of them? Of course not, we are going to find a solution with the people who are willing to get vaccinated.

I am not really kind to anti-vaxxers, they could just become unemployed all I care, just get out if you do not want to get paid for doing your job with requirements which includes vaccination. I am not going to suddenly say "oh man, if truckers quit then I am finished, let them be the only type of work that doesn't require vaccination and KILL people", sorry but I rather starve them then accept their blackmail.

oHnK

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Quote from: kryptqnick on November 28, 2021, 10:50:39 AM

LaMalfa says that the Biden administration is not helping, but you know who else is not helping? It's precisely guys like LaMalfa that keep emphasizing that vaccination is a personal choice, that nobody can make people vaccinate if they don't want to, instead of actually sharing the science of how vaccines drastically change your odds of surviving covid and encouraging people to consider vaccinating. They're talking about trucks, but in my country the anti-vaccination moods are so high that while there are already some jobs with mandatory vaccinations, doctor is not one of them because apparently many small towns will be left without crucial doctors if it's made mandatory. Nothing is more unsettling than doctors who don't want to get vaccinated. As for the US, I'm sure they'll figure out what to do. They might take a risk and see if it becomes a supply chain problem. They can override the mandate if it becomes the case.

A very interesting case for someone like me to read. I really appreciate how idealistic people in the US are, and how different it is for people in a developing country like us. Government regulations that force all workers to be vaccinated are not given the option of their own will. Even today, vaccines are not due to the need to increase antibodies against the covid virus but as an administrative requirement only. Flights must be vaccinated, work must be vaccinated, even to watch movies in cinemas must be vaccinated first.

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Well, if they were to quit we will see a big reduction in supply and most of the malls will be on short supply because they're going to be relying on those truck drivers, the only problem is that these people are opposing the mandate even though there's no downside to it besides the fact that they think that vaccines are a bad thing.

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LaMalfa says that the Biden administration is not helping, but you know who else is not helping? It's precisely guys like LaMalfa that keep emphasizing that vaccination is a personal choice, that nobody can make people vaccinate if they don't want to, instead of actually sharing the science of how vaccines drastically change your odds of surviving covid and encouraging people to consider vaccinating. They're talking about trucks, but in my country the anti-vaccination moods are so high that while there are already some jobs with mandatory vaccinations, doctor is not one of them because apparently many small towns will be left without crucial doctors if it's made mandatory. Nothing is more unsettling than doctors who don't want to get vaccinated. As for the US, I'm sure they'll figure out what to do. They might take a risk and see if it becomes a supply chain problem. They can override the mandate if it becomes the case.

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Quote from: Gyfts on November 27, 2021, 06:22:22 PM

Definitely. Austria has introduced new lockdowns for the unvaccinated, which essentially states they are removed from society if they do not take the jab.
~snip~
But when people are emotional, they're prepared to sacrifice their liberties in the name of safety.

Unfortunately, my country is copying all the measures taken by Austria, so I expect that this will happen soon in my country as well. My Prime Minister and the Minister of Health openly call unvaccinated people imbeciles, cowards, and even bio-terrorists - and have banned entry into all state and public institutions without a covid passport or a negative test. Meanwhile, people who have been vaccinated and lost their immunity a long time ago are walking everywhere and do not have to be tested - and the WHO and many others are expressing concern about this false security that has been created through covid passports.

Here’s an example of how someone who doesn’t have a mask on public transportation in my country ends up - YT Link or or how they treat a teacher who tried to enter her workplace without a covid passport - YT Link.

They first try to convince people in a nice way, then threaten them that they will lose their jobs, and finally use the police as a repressive force. These truck drivers in the US may be brave, but the system they oppose is cruel and will have no mercy - but it is good to see that people do not agree to be forced into something they do not want.

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Quote from: Silberman on November 27, 2021, 01:47:46 PM

Correct, and we do not really need for 2.5 million truck drivers to quit to create huge issues, the US is having problems with a shortage of 80k drivers, that is only 3.2% of the drivers that are threatening to stop working if Biden forced them to be vaccinated, so while it is unrealistic to expect that 2.5 million truck drivers stop working at the same time, I think it is realistic for 3.2% to stop doing it, doubling the current problems of the supply chain.

And in the end, the real numbers will be much lower than this 3.2%. The prospect of job loss will force many of these truckers to get vaccinated. I really don't understand the hesitation from some circles. The vaccines are in use for more than a year, and till now there have been no reports of serious side effects on healthy people. On the other hand, in the US alone close to 800,000 deaths have resulted from COVID. I fully support the government's decision to make vaccination mandatory. We had enough deaths.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on November 26, 2021, 06:46:05 PM

I suppose it hinges upon whether truckers in 2021 are considered skilled or unskilled labor. Would a 2.5 million chunk of the workforce quitting create a vacuum which could easily be filled. The term independent contractors used to describe the trucking industry. Is often used to describe employment conditions that do not fit the label. Mixed martial artists in the UFC and pro wrestlers in WWE are both considered independent contractors. With a great deal of controversy surrounding the terminology and whether it is apt.

I'm not sure what exactly would happen in the long term, since as you said, it's a matter of whether it's possible to quickly fill up that vacuum of the workforce. It does present a problem in the short term as stated in the article though since it would fill a gap towards that process that was already set in stone. Not to mention that the workforce to be filled is required to be vaccinated, and I don't suppose they're just going to get some random vaccinated dude that could drive as their worker. That is unless Elon releases his unmanned truckers.

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on November 27, 2021, 04:56:20 PM

I don’t really get how some people likes to reason things at times; someone commenting that a truck driver can’t give any other person Covid-19 because they spend most of their day alone in their truck? You’re forgetting that sometimes that they will have to eat, which means at some point they will visit a restaurant or so, and they will also get home to their family and all that.

So, it’s very much possible that they can come in contact with a victim and also transfer it to others. But, anyways, I think the government should also try to do things in a way that it would be easy and not favor them, but the people as well, making sure that things are on the balance.

In this world of pandemic, we will experience soon that everywhere we go, they will ask for our vaccinated cards. Just like in Singapore, they are only allowing fully vaccinated individuals to dine in but there are still some restrictions.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dining-groups-five-vaccinated-same-household-restaurants-hawker-centres-2298466

So if you want to feel safe and not be discriminated, I believe, we need to follow the government mandate. But if you can stay at home forever, why not? But who can? This is why if you are a traveler, expect that everywhere you go, they will ask your covid vaccination card. We can't avoid this requirement as we move forward from this pandemic.

Topic: 2.5 million US truckers say they'll quit over vaccine mandate - page 2. (Read 386 times)