[4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool - page 189.

pekatete

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: bspurloc on October 15, 2014, 03:00:30 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 PM

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR "Mr. IGNORANT' AS WELL.

IT DOESN"T SMELL GOOD THERE. PUT IT THAT WAY.

Can't read between the lines here ... are you loosing your rag over the Mr Ignorant bit? Hope not since you tagged yourself so (and gave me exclusive rights too)!

Still, the luck at slush hasn't changed since my last, now just notching up to 7+hrs!

I remember when the Slush forum was just people whining about luck and asking how to setup miners and various other needs for help...
Now its people whining about luck, crying about what others said and general off topic gabbing, and ones needing help get washed away....

Those were the days ... (ahhh! with lovely sunsets .... warm evenings .....WELL, its winter now!)

pekatete

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:58:31 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 PM

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR "Mr. IGNORANT' AS WELL.

IT DOESN"T SMELL GOOD THERE. PUT IT THAT WAY.

Can't read between the lines here ... are you loosing your rag over the Mr Ignorant bit? Hope not since you tagged yourself so (and gave me exclusive rights too)!

Still, the luck at slush hasn't changed since my last, now just notching up to 7+hrs!

Your language and attitude is the issue. Like the "rag" bit.

Yes, I figured you would come back with the "Ignorant" bit as well. I should have known you would anyway from your attitude.

Hmmm! Know what, I like this forum for one thing, it has the ignore button and since you detest my attitude you can simply push that button on me. Enough said.

bspurloc

hero member

Activity: 569

Merit: 500

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 PM

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR "Mr. IGNORANT' AS WELL.

IT DOESN"T SMELL GOOD THERE. PUT IT THAT WAY.

Can't read between the lines here ... are you loosing your rag over the Mr Ignorant bit? Hope not since you tagged yourself so (and gave me exclusive rights too)!

Still, the luck at slush hasn't changed since my last, now just notching up to 7+hrs!

I remember when the Slush forum was just people whining about luck and asking how to setup miners and various other needs for help...
Now its people whining about luck, crying about what others said and general off topic gabbing, and ones needing help get washed away....

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 PM

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR "Mr. IGNORANT' AS WELL.

IT DOESN"T SMELL GOOD THERE. PUT IT THAT WAY.

Can't read between the lines here ... are you loosing your rag over the Mr Ignorant bit? Hope not since you tagged yourself so (and gave me exclusive rights too)!

Still, the luck at slush hasn't changed since my last, now just notching up to 7+hrs!

Your language and attitude is the issue. Like the "rag" bit.

Yes, I figured you would come back with the "Ignorant" bit as well. I should have known you would anyway from your attitude.

You can stick my "rag" down your throat instead of the trash.

pekatete

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 PM

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR "Mr. IGNORANT' AS WELL.

IT DOESN"T SMELL GOOD THERE. PUT IT THAT WAY.

Can't read between the lines here ... are you loosing your rag over the Mr Ignorant bit? Hope not since you tagged yourself so (and gave me exclusive rights too)!

Still, the luck at slush hasn't changed since my last, now just notching up to 7+hrs!

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 PM

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR "Mr. IGNORANT' AS WELL.

IT DOESN"T SMELL GOOD THERE. PUT IT THAT WAY.

pekatete

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Talking of bloody luck, 28+hrs then 10+hrs then 7+hrs and now 6+hrs and counting ... that is 3 blocks in the last 51hrs!
I really needed to know how that pool luck is computed, but now I think I have better things to worry about. Thanks Mr Teal, JT and Mr Ignorant for all the answers (I have laid that to rest).

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:26:57 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 02:20:37 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:08:43 PM

EDIT: Like I said, I asked how to compute luck and all I got was how to get the luck. We have all the numbers that we believe make up the calculation of luck, but NOT the formula (well, just a link to a page to plug the numbers in!).

No, that is the formula. It's just not a difficult one. The luck value that pools use is just the number of shares they expect a block to take (IE, the difficulty), divided by the number of shares it actually took.

If you want to do it over some random time interval, it's just the number of blocks you found in that time, times the difficulty, divided by the total shares. It gets a little more difficult when the difficulty changes, but you just divided it into two separate terms at that point.

Agreed, but I'm telling you, my numbers based on hash rate to determine luck were not that far off at all. If you look at the 1 Day Luck percentage at the end of each day [based on the number of blocks found], you will see its percentage is very close to the number I indicated based on hash rate.

Yeah, they should be. Your listed hashrate is really just shares/sec*2^32, and those calculators are just stripping that extra term back out.

Pekatete just asked how slush would calculate the luck, and it just ends up being X/Y. You can it's [(X*B)-C]/B + (C/B) and you'd be right, but that's probably not how he's doing it.

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: jterry211 on October 15, 2014, 02:26:27 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:06:11 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:51:51 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

May I just say, I am of that generation where we used to do calculus on paper and were banned (in exams) from using calculators. in the same breath, the link to the site does not reveal how they compute their numbers, simply plug in a few numbers and you have a result ... ! As such, I still am at a loss as to how pool luck is calcullated!

If you want a quick check, you can look at Eligius.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blocks.php
The luck number listed for each block is just Difficulty/shares

You can also look at Organ of Corti's blog.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/

Quote

"Luck" is the usual difficulty 1 equivalent shares per round / mining difficulty, or (equivalently) accepted shares / expected shares.

Right, I shall cease asking difficult questions ..... that's it.

Pekatete asked a simple question no need for you to Once again start a fuss. Yes im adding my 2 cents.

JT

Whatever...

I think you just enjoy trying to criticize someone you don't like for whatever reason.

So, you get onto me and not him as well?

Okay...

I'm chilling (as in "done with this")

see ya

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 02:20:37 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:08:43 PM

EDIT: Like I said, I asked how to compute luck and all I got was how to get the luck. We have all the numbers that we believe make up the calculation of luck, but NOT the formula (well, just a link to a page to plug the numbers in!).

No, that is the formula. It's just not a difficult one. The luck value that pools use is just the number of shares they expect a block to take (IE, the difficulty), divided by the number of shares it actually took.

If you want to do it over some random time interval, it's just the number of blocks you found in that time, times the difficulty, divided by the total shares. It gets a little more difficult when the difficulty changes, but you just divided it into two separate terms at that point.

Agreed, but I'm telling you, my numbers based on hash rate to determine luck were not that far off at all. If you look at the 1 Day Luck percentage at the end of each day [based on the number of blocks found], you will see its percentage is very close to the number I indicated based on hash rate.

And yes, stale shares, duplicates, rejects, etc... would play a roll in determining "luck" if not factored in. I can see the logic in determining Pool Luck based on Shares contributed to the pool. Still, what I was doing as a "Newbie" to determine this on my own wasn't too far off.

jterry211

member

Activity: 114

Merit: 10

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:06:11 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:51:51 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

May I just say, I am of that generation where we used to do calculus on paper and were banned (in exams) from using calculators. in the same breath, the link to the site does not reveal how they compute their numbers, simply plug in a few numbers and you have a result ... ! As such, I still am at a loss as to how pool luck is calcullated!

If you want a quick check, you can look at Eligius.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blocks.php
The luck number listed for each block is just Difficulty/shares

You can also look at Organ of Corti's blog.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/

Quote

"Luck" is the usual difficulty 1 equivalent shares per round / mining difficulty, or (equivalently) accepted shares / expected shares.

Right, I shall cease asking difficult questions ..... that's it.

Pekatete asked a simple question no need for you to Once again start a fuss. Yes im adding my 2 cents.

JT

Whatever...

I think you just enjoy trying to criticize someone you don't like for whatever reason.

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 02:14:08 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:01:37 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:44:22 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 01:29:56 PM

I'm telling you "hash rate" will affect how many "shares" you have. One can "over clock" their miners to the point of having all kinds of rejects, stales, duplicates, etc... and their shares will increase "in spite of the duplicates, rejects, stales, etc...

I gave you my calculations on what I "THINK" is the way they compute it. I report, you decide. LOL

Also, IF you know, why bother asking?

I didn't ask, pekatete did.

Slush doesn't count rejects or duplicates in his numbers. Again, Slush doesn't know a user's hashrate, just their number of accepted shares. Up until a month or two ago he didn't even provide a hashrate estimation on his website, just the number of shares for the current round. Yes your hashrate will dictate the number of shares you have, but that is not something Slush has access to.

Then we agree that "hash rate" is very important in determining shares, which in turn determines the percentage for pool luck? There is no computation program that I know of that will determine the length of time it would take to find a block based on number of shares. All of them I know of determine this based on hash rate... PERIOD! They do say, "can very greatly depending on luck." I say it can also vary greatly depending on the "quality" of the miners mining. If they are over clocked to the point of having one stale after another, HW too high, etc... one's ability to find a block "solo" is diminished; and one's ability to build up sufficient amount of shares in a pool is diminished.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The average number of difficulty1 shares needed to find a block is equal to the difficulty. IE, on average you currently need ~35B diff1 shares. Your mining software infact lists your hashrate based on the number of accepted shares. Download the source of cgminer and look at how it actually goes about finding that hashrate number it displays.

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:03:14 PM

How do they not have access to it, if THEY are the one's giving MINE to me?

LOOK at the "header" above the box for your workers in "account." Then tell me what it says...

It says, "Total average hash rate in last 60 minutes."

It's a derived number. Slush takes your number of shares in the last 60 minutes, divides it by 3600 to get the number of shares/sec, multiplies it by 2^32, and displays that as your hashrate.

I don't doubt that one bit. The link I provided for Mining profitability even mentions this. I'm still saying in order for us to come up with how LUCK is determined, Hash rate is a MAJOR contributor in its calculation. Without hash rate, their can be no shares. Whether the pool determines luck based solely on hash rate or solely on shares remains to be seen. They haven't told us in "News."

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 02:08:43 PM

EDIT: Like I said, I asked how to compute luck and all I got was how to get the luck. We have all the numbers that we believe make up the calculation of luck, but NOT the formula (well, just a link to a page to plug the numbers in!).

No, that is the formula. It's just not a difficult one. The luck value that pools use is just the number of shares they expect a block to take (IE, the difficulty), divided by the number of shares it actually took.

If you want to do it over some random time interval, it's just the number of blocks you found in that time, times the difficulty, divided by the total shares. It gets a little more difficult when the difficulty changes, but you just divided it into two separate terms at that point.

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

May I just say, I am of that generation where we used to do calculus on paper and were banned (in exams) from using calculators. in the same breath, the link to the site does not reveal how they compute their numbers, simply plug in a few numbers and you have a result ... ! As such, I still am at a loss as to how pool luck is calcullated!

EDIT: I just hit upon a plan, I'll rephrase my question: How do I find out what a pool's luck is?

WOW, REALLY?

LOL

I've gone to several sites with similar computation programs and they all give very similar, if not the same exact answer.

The following thread will tell you the same about answering difficulty with hash rate computations.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/spreadsheet-invest-in-btc-or-mining-hardware-7531

Also, if you go back to the link I suggested for Bitcoin mining profitability, he explains how he comes up with it. You ask a question, I provide you with info, YET you want take the time to look at it Mr. Calculus.

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:01:37 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:44:22 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 01:29:56 PM

I'm telling you "hash rate" will affect how many "shares" you have. One can "over clock" their miners to the point of having all kinds of rejects, stales, duplicates, etc... and their shares will increase "in spite of the duplicates, rejects, stales, etc...

I gave you my calculations on what I "THINK" is the way they compute it. I report, you decide. LOL

Also, IF you know, why bother asking?

I didn't ask, pekatete did.

Slush doesn't count rejects or duplicates in his numbers. Again, Slush doesn't know a user's hashrate, just their number of accepted shares. Up until a month or two ago he didn't even provide a hashrate estimation on his website, just the number of shares for the current round. Yes your hashrate will dictate the number of shares you have, but that is not something Slush has access to.

Then we agree that "hash rate" is very important in determining shares, which in turn determines the percentage for pool luck? There is no computation program that I know of that will determine the length of time it would take to find a block based on number of shares. All of them I know of determine this based on hash rate... PERIOD! They do say, "can very greatly depending on luck." I say it can also vary greatly depending on the "quality" of the miners mining. If they are over clocked to the point of having one stale after another, HW too high, etc... one's ability to find a block "solo" is diminished; and one's ability to build up sufficient amount of shares in a pool is diminished.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The average number of difficulty1 shares needed to find a block is equal to the difficulty. IE, on average you currently need ~35B diff1 shares. Your mining software infact lists your hashrate based on the number of accepted shares. Download the source of cgminer and look at how it actually goes about finding that hashrate number it displays.

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:03:14 PM

How do they not have access to it, if THEY are the one's giving MINE to me?

LOOK at the "header" above the box for your workers in "account." Then tell me what it says...

It says, "Total average hash rate in last 60 minutes."

It's a derived number. Slush takes your number of shares in the last 60 minutes, divides it by 3600 to get the number of shares/sec, multiplies it by 2^32, and displays that as your hashrate.

pekatete

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 02:06:11 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:51:51 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

May I just say, I am of that generation where we used to do calculus on paper and were banned (in exams) from using calculators. in the same breath, the link to the site does not reveal how they compute their numbers, simply plug in a few numbers and you have a result ... ! As such, I still am at a loss as to how pool luck is calcullated!

If you want a quick check, you can look at Eligius.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blocks.php
The luck number listed for each block is just Difficulty/shares

You can also look at Organ of Corti's blog.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/

Quote

"Luck" is the usual difficulty 1 equivalent shares per round / mining difficulty, or (equivalently) accepted shares / expected shares.

Right, I shall cease asking difficult questions ..... that's it.

Whatever...

I think you just enjoy trying to criticize someone you don't like for whatever reason.

Now what did I say that's got you up in arms againt me?
EDIT: Like I said, I asked how to compute luck and all I got was how to get the luck. We have all the numbers that we believe make up the calculation of luck, but NOT the formula (well, just a link to a page to plug the numbers in!).

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:51:51 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

May I just say, I am of that generation where we used to do calculus on paper and were banned (in exams) from using calculators. in the same breath, the link to the site does not reveal how they compute their numbers, simply plug in a few numbers and you have a result ... ! As such, I still am at a loss as to how pool luck is calcullated!

If you want a quick check, you can look at Eligius.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blocks.php
The luck number listed for each block is just Difficulty/shares

You can also look at Organ of Corti's blog.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/

Quote

"Luck" is the usual difficulty 1 equivalent shares per round / mining difficulty, or (equivalently) accepted shares / expected shares.

Right, I shall cease asking difficult questions ..... that's it.

Whatever...

I think you just enjoy trying to criticize someone you don't like for whatever reason.

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:44:22 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 01:29:56 PM

I'm telling you "hash rate" will affect how many "shares" you have. One can "over clock" their miners to the point of having all kinds of rejects, stales, duplicates, etc... and their shares will increase "in spite of the duplicates, rejects, stales, etc...

I gave you my calculations on what I "THINK" is the way they compute it. I report, you decide. LOL

Also, IF you know, why bother asking?

I didn't ask, pekatete did.

Slush doesn't count rejects or duplicates in his numbers. Again, Slush doesn't know a user's hashrate, just their number of accepted shares. Up until a month or two ago he didn't even provide a hashrate estimation on his website, just the number of shares for the current round. Yes your hashrate will dictate the number of shares you have, but that is not something Slush has access to.

How do they not have access to it, if THEY are the one's giving MINE to me?

LOOK at the "header" above the box for your workers in "account." Then tell me what it says...

It says, "Total average hash rate in last 60 minutes."

dmwardjr

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1318

Technical Analyst/Trader

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:44:22 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on October 15, 2014, 01:29:56 PM

I'm telling you "hash rate" will affect how many "shares" you have. One can "over clock" their miners to the point of having all kinds of rejects, stales, duplicates, etc... and their shares will increase "in spite of the duplicates, rejects, stales, etc...

I gave you my calculations on what I "THINK" is the way they compute it. I report, you decide. LOL

Also, IF you know, why bother asking?

I didn't ask, pekatete did.

Slush doesn't count rejects or duplicates in his numbers. Again, Slush doesn't know a user's hashrate, just their number of accepted shares. Up until a month or two ago he didn't even provide a hashrate estimation on his website, just the number of shares for the current round. Yes your hashrate will dictate the number of shares you have, but that is not something Slush has access to.

Then we agree that "hash rate" is very important in determining shares, which in turn determines the percentage for pool luck? There is no computation program that I know of that will determine the length of time it would take to find a block based on number of shares. All of them I know of determine this based on hash rate... PERIOD! They do say, "can very greatly depending on luck." I say it can also vary greatly depending on the "quality" of the miners mining. If they are over clocked to the point of having one stale after another, HW too high, etc... one's ability to find a block "solo" is diminished; and one's ability to build up sufficient amount of shares in a pool is diminished.

pekatete

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: MrTeal on October 15, 2014, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: pekatete on October 15, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

May I just say, I am of that generation where we used to do calculus on paper and were banned (in exams) from using calculators. in the same breath, the link to the site does not reveal how they compute their numbers, simply plug in a few numbers and you have a result ... ! As such, I still am at a loss as to how pool luck is calcullated!

If you want a quick check, you can look at Eligius.
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blocks.php
The luck number listed for each block is just Difficulty/shares

You can also look at Organ of Corti's blog.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/

Quote

"Luck" is the usual difficulty 1 equivalent shares per round / mining difficulty, or (equivalently) accepted shares / expected shares.

Right, I shall cease asking difficult questions ..... that's it.

Topic: [4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool - page 189. (Read 4382653 times)