[4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool - page 829.

TiborB

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

Quote from: organofcorti on April 22, 2013, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

Well, they do make a difference, as it had been pointed out before. My initial thought was to perform the following instead of the reset:

1) Divide by a big number & round everyones score to maintain the proportions but get rid of a lot of digits.
2) Adjust the constant C (currently always 300) according to the big number used for the division - logarithmic. (so at the end, the algorithm maintains the same curve, scaled down)

I do not want to raise a flame war, and note that I was not complaining either - but am open to any discussion on the maths behind this.

Cheers,
T

Kruncha

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: digital on April 22, 2013, 09:46:11 AM

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 09:44:41 AM

Quote from: digital on April 22, 2013, 09:37:37 AM

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 09:29:42 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on April 22, 2013, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

That's not true, if the score resets on a slow miner and they don't submit a share before the end, they loose everything.

K.

That's called variance. That slow miner could theoretically grab another share or two between the reset and the round ending and end up with a higher score than normal too. You never know when the shares are gonna come. You just can't say that you always loose out, because it's simply not the case.

If you had read my earlier post:

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 08:33:39 AM

I like the method how it is, I sometimes loose out when the time resets because i'm a slow miner, but, sometimes I earn more because of a lucky few quick submissions before the end. I love the lottery element and still make more than doing PPS even when times are rough.

and, thanks Slush, you seem a really sound geezer

K.

I wasn't complaining, just pointing out a fact.

K.

So was I, but in the interest of fairness I take back the last sentence from my previous post... lol

Thankyou for your understanding, that is what will make this place thrive.

K.

digital

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 09:44:41 AM

Quote from: digital on April 22, 2013, 09:37:37 AM

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 09:29:42 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on April 22, 2013, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

That's not true, if the score resets on a slow miner and they don't submit a share before the end, they loose everything.

K.

That's called variance. That slow miner could theoretically grab another share or two between the reset and the round ending and end up with a higher score than normal too. You never know when the shares are gonna come. You just can't say that you always loose out, because it's simply not the case.

If you had read my earlier post:

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 08:33:39 AM

I like the method how it is, I sometimes loose out when the time resets because i'm a slow miner, but, sometimes I earn more because of a lucky few quick submissions before the end. I love the lottery element and still make more than doing PPS even when times are rough.

and, thanks Slush, you seem a really sound geezer

K.

I wasn't complaining, just pointing out a fact.

K.

So was I, but in the interest of fairness I take back the last sentence from my previous post... lol

Kruncha

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: digital on April 22, 2013, 09:37:37 AM

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 09:29:42 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on April 22, 2013, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

That's not true, if the score resets on a slow miner and they don't submit a share before the end, they loose everything.

K.

That's called variance. That slow miner could theoretically grab another share or two between the reset and the round ending and end up with a higher score than normal too. You never know when the shares are gonna come. You just can't say that you always loose out, because it's simply not the case.

If you had read my earlier post:

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 08:33:39 AM

I like the method how it is, I sometimes loose out when the time resets because i'm a slow miner, but, sometimes I earn more because of a lucky few quick submissions before the end. I love the lottery element and still make more than doing PPS even when times are rough.

and, thanks Slush, you seem a really sound geezer

K.

I wasn't complaining, just pointing out a fact.

K.

digital

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: Kruncha on April 22, 2013, 09:29:42 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on April 22, 2013, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

That's not true, if the score resets on a slow miner and they don't submit a share before the end, they loose everything.

K.

That's called variance. That slow miner could theoretically grab another share or two between the reset and the round ending and end up with a higher score than normal too. You never know when the shares are gonna come. You just can't say that you always loose out, because it's simply not the case.

Kruncha

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: organofcorti on April 22, 2013, 09:23:24 AM

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

That's not true, if the score resets on a slow miner and they don't submit a share before the end, they loose everything.

K.

organofcorti

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: TiborB on April 22, 2013, 09:21:01 AM

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

The resets make no difference to the score. Your proportion is still the same. The only difference the resets make is that they mean Slush doesn't have to deal with numbers with 100 digits.

TiborB

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

I am happy with the score based calculation as well, re-introducing PPS would not be a good idea. Supporting multiple payout plans would just add unnecessary complexity and demand a lot of effort.

Having said this, I do have some thoughts on the periodic resets:

I could not find the periodic reset documented at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50002 which is the "official description" of how rewards are calculated AFAIK.
Theoretically, the exponential nature of the scoring algorithm without the resets would do a great job against hopping.
In practice, for long running rounds, the scores might get very large, causing an arithmetic overflow. Maybe this is the only reason for the resets, but I am just guessing. If so, a mathematically correct fade out instead of the reset might be a viable option.

I might be missing something, so just correct me in case...

Cheers,
T

Kruncha

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: jerethdaminer on April 22, 2013, 09:08:26 AM

irc chat room is that a slush specific chatroom or a bitcoin talk in general and where would i find it

If your looking for support specific to slush's site you can click on 'live support' on the left hand side of the 'my account' page on slush's website.

K.

Camello_AR

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

Quote from: jerethdaminer on April 22, 2013, 09:08:26 AM

irc chat room is that a slush specific chatroom or a bitcoin talk in general and where would i find it

Is specific to slush's pool

jerethdaminer

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

irc chat room is that a slush specific chatroom or a bitcoin talk in general and where would i find it

Kruncha

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: digital on April 22, 2013, 08:24:33 AM

Quote from: slush on April 22, 2013, 04:25:34 AM

Uff, there're too much posts since my last visit on friday. Shortly:

a) Yes, I fixed one round yesterday, where rewards were calculated wrongly.
b) Pool works since DDoS. If you have connection issues, you've probably wrong DNS records. Never ever use direct IPs,as I'm moving Stratum backends between servers/datacenters.
c) Database crashed few minutes ago. I fixed it in ~15 minutes, mining backends worked all time so no block has been lost. Just shares were not counted for this period. Everything is working normally again, just statistics are now screwed up because of database downtime.
d) FAQbot is up again

Slush you must have the patience of a saint. With all these repeat questions and impossible requests, I don't think I would be quite so civil. Although, i guess it's easy to not be an ass online. Just don't post... lol

And to all those looking for Slush to redo the algorithm to include PPS at the end of the round... It will never happen. IF the algorithm gets changed, it will be to DGM, or some other hopping proof method. It's a HUGE undertaking to change how the payouts are calculated, and to add in any form of PPS would be a step back in the consistency of payouts from this pool.

I like the method how it is, I sometimes loose out when the time resets because i'm a slow miner, but, sometimes I earn more because of a lucky few quick submissions before the end. I love the lottery element and still make more than doing PPS even when times are rough.

and, thanks Slush, you seem a really sound geezer

K.

digital

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: slush on April 22, 2013, 04:25:34 AM

Uff, there're too much posts since my last visit on friday. Shortly:

a) Yes, I fixed one round yesterday, where rewards were calculated wrongly.
b) Pool works since DDoS. If you have connection issues, you've probably wrong DNS records. Never ever use direct IPs,as I'm moving Stratum backends between servers/datacenters.
c) Database crashed few minutes ago. I fixed it in ~15 minutes, mining backends worked all time so no block has been lost. Just shares were not counted for this period. Everything is working normally again, just statistics are now screwed up because of database downtime.
d) FAQbot is up again

Slush you must have the patience of a saint. With all these repeat questions and impossible requests, I don't think I would be quite so civil. Although, i guess it's easy to not be an ass online. Just don't post... lol

And to all those looking for Slush to redo the algorithm to include PPS at the end of the round... It will never happen. IF the algorithm gets changed, it will be to DGM, or some other hopping proof method. It's a HUGE undertaking to change how the payouts are calculated, and to add in any form of PPS would be a step back in the consistency of payouts from this pool.

silicont

member

Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Thanks for keeping a sharp eye, everyone. I'm not currently paying such close attention to the blocks and rewards, since I'm assuming everything is working as planned. It's nice to know there are people with their finger on the pulse, and a responsible sysop that is fixing things.

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Uff, there're too much posts since my last visit on friday. Shortly:

a) Yes, I fixed one round yesterday, where rewards were calculated wrongly.
b) Pool works since DDoS. If you have connection issues, you've probably wrong DNS records. Never ever use direct IPs,as I'm moving Stratum backends between servers/datacenters.
c) Database crashed few minutes ago. I fixed it in ~15 minutes, mining backends worked all time so no block has been lost. Just shares were not counted for this period. Everything is working normally again, just statistics are now screwed up because of database downtime.
d) FAQbot is up again

TheXev

member

Activity: 79

Merit: 10

I resolved my wallet issues from a few pages ago.

The next question coming out of the IRC chat room is, will FAQBot return? He's been gone since the DoSSes happened, and we miss our notifications of a new block being found.

Lanidarc

newbie

Activity: 48

Merit: 0

Quote from: scouzi on April 21, 2013, 09:19:30 PM

Quote from: nybbler905 on April 21, 2013, 07:01:56 PM

Speaking of ' Weird Block ' ... since having to kill all the blocks my wallet had and restarting my PC ( and reloading the backup wallet ) I have yet to get more than 3 connections to the bitcoin network and re-re-re-download any blocks....

Not going to blame anyone, just thought it was weird and with the random DDoS attacks that have been reported lately kinda makes the paranoid inside me wonder if there isn't some US government conspiracy going on since it is a decentralized currency they have no influence over ( unless they started their own mining pool )......

any one else have to kill the wallet's data files and not get any blocks in the last ..... 24 hours? ( -8 GMT at 5pm Pacific time )

I had a problem with Bitcoin-QT throwing corrupted database errors. Even deleting and re-sync the block chain I had the same error. I backed up my wallet.dat file and used an online wallet since then.

I just updated my wallet after a week or so with bitcoin-qt - didn't see any errors.

The DDoS attacks were anything but random - they were an ill-conceived attempt to manipulate the difficulty update. If I had more time, I'd try to calculate the effectiveness of it, but i'm certain it had very little effect coming so late in the cycle, and particularly with the fluidity of the mining public. I'm sure most miners simply think of BTC as a bit of a game to play, but we are involved in a very serious business which is coming under exceptional pressures.

scouzi

newbie

Activity: 45

Merit: 0

Quote from: nybbler905 on April 21, 2013, 07:01:56 PM

Speaking of ' Weird Block ' ... since having to kill all the blocks my wallet had and restarting my PC ( and reloading the backup wallet ) I have yet to get more than 3 connections to the bitcoin network and re-re-re-download any blocks....

Not going to blame anyone, just thought it was weird and with the random DDoS attacks that have been reported lately kinda makes the paranoid inside me wonder if there isn't some US government conspiracy going on since it is a decentralized currency they have no influence over ( unless they started their own mining pool )......

any one else have to kill the wallet's data files and not get any blocks in the last ..... 24 hours? ( -8 GMT at 5pm Pacific time )

I had a problem with Bitcoin-QT throwing corrupted database errors. Even deleting and re-sync the block chain I had the same error. I backed up my wallet.dat file and used an online wallet since then.

nybbler905

full member

Activity: 213

Merit: 100

Speaking of ' Weird Block ' ... since having to kill all the blocks my wallet had and restarting my PC ( and reloading the backup wallet ) I have yet to get more than 3 connections to the bitcoin network and re-re-re-download any blocks....

Not going to blame anyone, just thought it was weird and with the random DDoS attacks that have been reported lately kinda makes the paranoid inside me wonder if there isn't some US government conspiracy going on since it is a decentralized currency they have no influence over ( unless they started their own mining pool )......

any one else have to kill the wallet's data files and not get any blocks in the last ..... 24 hours? ( -8 GMT at 5pm Pacific time )

TiborB

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

Thanks Slush for taking action on the weird block.

Topic: [4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool - page 829. (Read 4382671 times)