This use of "51%" for everything under the sun is staring to really get on my nerves. 51% has nothing to do with this - at all.
What if they had only 47, 48, 49 or 50% and decided to mine only empty blocks. SAME DAMN THING: on average about half the blocks would contain no transactions.
Topic: 40 minute BTC block time - No big deal - page 3. (Read 6110 times)
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
There are free market dynamics but its
not really a "free market" in the traditional sense.
The block rewards mean the miners
get paid regardless of the transaction fees, which
are a small part right now. Also, if a
miner starts behaving badly, consumers
cannot choose to take their business elsewhere,
as you cannot choose which miners you want
to allow to include your transaction.
While it is true that by excluding
transactions, a miner makes less money and
thereby becomes less competitive, it could
be done maliciously without a serious impact
on the bottom line, and certainly would be
a fatal problem if a miner ever got a 51%
monopoly.
not really a "free market" in the traditional sense.
The block rewards mean the miners
get paid regardless of the transaction fees, which
are a small part right now. Also, if a
miner starts behaving badly, consumers
cannot choose to take their business elsewhere,
as you cannot choose which miners you want
to allow to include your transaction.
While it is true that by excluding
transactions, a miner makes less money and
thereby becomes less competitive, it could
be done maliciously without a serious impact
on the bottom line, and certainly would be
a fatal problem if a miner ever got a 51%
monopoly.
I think this is one of the flaws of Bitcoin.
Free markets aren't flaws.
Seems a bit of stretch to try to apply political motivations to a technical issue.
It's also a stretch to propose that it's even technically possible at all to force miners to include transactions into blocks.The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.
I think this is one of the flaws of Bitcoin.
The reason Bitcoin is prospering so well is because they are wrong.
Having rules in a protocol is not really the same as 'forcing' people to do something. Seems a bit of stretch to try to apply political motivations to a technical issue.
Freedom, with an economic incentive, works and is really the only solution I see. Perhaps you are smarter than me and can come up with a way to codify your suggestion.
I didn't mean to imply that there was necessarily an issue with with the way transactions are handled by miners. I thought the original comment was conflating some sort of moral principle with an issue that's a technical one. Forcing people to do things or preventing them from doing things is the whole point of a protocol.
The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.
I think this is one of the flaws of Bitcoin.
The reason Bitcoin is prospering so well is because they are wrong.
Having rules in a protocol is not really the same as 'forcing' people to do something. Seems a bit of stretch to try to apply political motivations to a technical issue.
Freedom, with an economic incentive, works and is really the only solution I see. Perhaps you are smarter than me and can come up with a way to codify your suggestion.
Seems a bit of stretch to try to apply political motivations to a technical issue.
It's also a stretch to propose that it's even technically possible at all to force miners to include transactions into blocks. The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.
I think this is one of the flaws of Bitcoin.
The reason Bitcoin is prospering so well is because they are wrong.
Having rules in a protocol is not really the same as 'forcing' people to do something. Seems a bit of stretch to try to apply political motivations to a technical issue.
The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.
I think this is one of the flaws of Bitcoin.
The reason Bitcoin is prospering so well is because they are wrong.
Is this based on prioritizing the transactions by the amount of fee, or is it just that the transactions don't get put in the block in time? Or is it because the block miner is choosing to limit the amount of transactions they want to include in the block on purpose?
The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.Yeah, but I'm curious the exact reason he was getting at about why some transactions won't be confirmed. It sounds like he might be hinting at another reason other than miner choice. The only other thing besides miner choice I can think of is blocksize limit. Which is why I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
Is this based on prioritizing the transactions by the amount of fee, or is it just that the transactions don't get put in the block in time? Or is it because the block miner is choosing to limit the amount of transactions they want to include in the block on purpose?
The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.I think this is one of the flaws of Bitcoin.
Is this based on prioritizing the transactions by the amount of fee, or is it just that the transactions don't get put in the block in time? Or is it because the block miner is choosing to limit the amount of transactions they want to include in the block on purpose?
The miners and the pools are under no obligation to include any transactions. They can, if they wish, and some pools and miners have n the past, just mine empty blocks. They can cherry pick which transaction they want to include - that is their right. They can include only transactions that have a profitable fee and drop all other transactions. They can, if they feel like it, included a certain number of free transactions. Luckily for "freeloaders" most of the larger pools will include a certain number of free transactions in each block they mine.i wait for 30 minutes today to get 1 confirmations 
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
No the target time of 10 minutes per block is independent of the amount of hashing power.
And I agree that it's not good to have to wait so long for a confirmation.
Is this based on prioritizing the transactions by the amount of fee, or is it just that the transactions don't get put in the block in time? Or is it because the block miner is choosing to limit the amount of transactions they want to include in the block on purpose?
What about KGW? I know some alts got messed up with poor implementations of it but a solid implementation could make BTC better at hitting the 10 min mark.
Pretty interesting, to say the least. It's been a while since I've seen a really large block time, so I think it calls to ask: What could lead to such a long wait?
Me sending a tx.
You just HAD to go and spend your millions of Bitcoin in a single TX.
Haha, indeed. Thanks for making us all others wait, jerk.
i wait for 30 minutes today to get 1 confirmations
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
No the target time of 10 minutes per block is independent of the amount of hashing power.
And I agree that it's not good to have to wait so long for a confirmation.
i wait for 30 minutes today to get 1 confirmations
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
No the target time of 10 minutes per block is independent of the amount of hashing power.
And I agree that it's not good to have to wait so long for a confirmation.
hmm i see
so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
Since the average confirmation time is less than 10 minutes that means the difficulty is too low. so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
So what it means is that the difficulty will keep going up until the average confirmation time is 10 minutes.
Enjoy the shorter 8 minute average confirmation times while you can
Eventually the growth in the hashrate will level off and the average confirmation time will be adjusted to 10 minutes where it should be.
hmm i see
so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
Since the average confirmation time is less than 10 minutes that means the difficulty is too low. so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
So what it means is that the difficulty will keep going up until the average confirmation time is 10 minutes.
Enjoy the shorter 8 minute average confirmation times while you can
Eventually the growth in the hashrate will level off and the average confirmation time will be adjusted to 10 minutes where it should be.
if avg confirmation time is 8 minutes, the difficulty will increase to adjust avg confirmation time (to 10 minutes)
yeah i enjoy it if i made transaction on right time, i can get 3-4 confirmations easily after few minutes
but if i get wrong time, i need to wait almost 30 minutes
thanks for your explanation
hmm i see
so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
Since the average confirmation time is less than 10 minutes that means the difficulty is too low. so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
So what it means is that the difficulty will keep going up until the average confirmation time is 10 minutes.
Enjoy the shorter 8 minute average confirmation times while you can
Eventually the growth in the hashrate will level off and the average confirmation time will be adjusted to 10 minutes where it should be.
i wait for 30 minutes today to get 1 confirmations
the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
Actually because the hashrate is going up at a fast rate the average confirmation time is below 10 minutes. See:the more we have hashing power, more we need to wait for confirmation, is it right?
not good if we use bitcoin for payment if we must wait for long time
https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-confirmation-time
The average confirmation time is actually about 8 minutes.
so ideally average confirmation time is 10 minutes
and then we see 8 minutes average for now, it will make we need more time to get another confirmation, right?
308764 - <1 minute
308765 - <1 minute
308766 - 9 minutes
308767 - 4 minutes
308768 - more time to wait?
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