5,000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved

Webetcoins

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Quote from: Piesel on September 13, 2022, 01:36:32 AM

We have seen this many times before and we will see more of this going forward, old Bitcoin wallets will keep on transacting because you don't expect them to leave their Bitcoin dormant forever, as most people who hold Bitcoin way back have a long-term goal to it some may place 10 years holding plans other can also have 20-year holding plans to at whateverr time the owner feels comfortable to move their Bitcoin around it's the choice and their money and it is sure ther made huge profits already considering the entry time and price.

5,000 bitcoins is not that huge to create any panic or discussion here, 1.5 million Bitcoin are traded daily and that is enough volume to accommodate any old wallet balance whenever their get offloaded into the market. I don't panic when I see such old. wallet balance movement only newbies do that and as for old members who are already experienced with such actions, I can only get excited that at least the dormant long abandon wallet is still active and that gives us the chance to take hold of then if the wallet owner injects those Bitcoin into the market, but at the moment we can't confirm if the Bitcoin we're transferred to an exchange wallet or a privately own cold wallet.

I agree that it is not really a big deal to see these wallets moving, and people who are overreacting to these are the same people who sell their coins anytime there is a bad news. I would say that do not make any moves or trades based on what you have seen in the market, that doesn't make sense to me, if you are going to make any changes then you should make those changes based on what the fundamentals show and not what the daily news or media is putting out. Wallets move all the time, it is a common thing, even 5000 btc moving is common these days if you look at the big wall street companies like microstrategy, that is why we shouldn't be really shocked about it at all.

Ivartheragnarson

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i think it's nothing to consider. everyone have their right to move their bitcoin among where they wish. bitcoin was created for that , not for holding in a wallet. bitcoin can be used as money. so people use it as money.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 13, 2022, 12:00:19 AM

but i kind of think like once taxes are paid on that $1000 then taxes should never need to be paid on that particular $1000 ever again. just my opinion.

Which would result in tax revenues falling to zero unless there was a steady stream of new money being printed and entering circulation, leading to excessive inflation.

Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 13, 2022, 12:00:19 AM

so its not a fair thing. even with carryover rules, etc. still not fair.

It's not fair at all. Which is why bills to exclude any amount of bitcoin from this system should be supported.

These early wallets moving, while causing a bunch of newbies to panic, obviously didn't affect the markets that much since the price of bitcoin is up 20% over the last week or so.

Piesel

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Quote from: DaveF on August 30, 2022, 10:53:00 AM

Old addresses with a lot of funds are not that big a deal. If they have 1 like that they probably have more.

Not something to worry about the trading volume of BTC is on the order of 1.5 million coins a day. Having a few thousand more dumped into it is not something to worry about.

-Dave

We have seen this many times before and we will see more of this going forward, old Bitcoin wallets will keep on transacting because you don't expect them to leave their Bitcoin dormant forever, as most people who hold Bitcoin way back have a long-term goal to it some may place 10 years holding plans other can also have 20-year holding plans to at whateverr time the owner feels comfortable to move their Bitcoin around it's the choice and their money and it is sure ther made huge profits already considering the entry time and price.

5,000 bitcoins is not that huge to create any panic or discussion here, 1.5 million Bitcoin are traded daily and that is enough volume to accommodate any old wallet balance whenever their get offloaded into the market. I don't panic when I see such old. wallet balance movement only newbies do that and as for old members who are already experienced with such actions, I can only get excited that at least the dormant long abandon wallet is still active and that gives us the chance to take hold of then if the wallet owner injects those Bitcoin into the market, but at the moment we can't confirm if the Bitcoin we're transferred to an exchange wallet or a privately own cold wallet.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: nullama on September 11, 2022, 10:54:30 PM

They are different taxes though. You never pay tax twice.

When you receive money from work, you pay income taxes.

Money just changes hands from one person to another. Everytime that happens, it gets reduced by the amount of taxes that has to be paid which means the government is reposessing that money over time. If you take $1000 and follow its path from person to person, you'll see that over time, it goes to 0 because of taxes being taken out of it every time it changes ownership. And eventually that $1000 is all gone.

some people may say that is fine. but i kind of think like once taxes are paid on that $1000 then taxes should never need to be paid on that particular $1000 ever again. just my opinion.

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If you buy Bitcoin with that money and then immediately sell at the same price (let's ignore exchange fees for now) you don't have to pay any more taxes.

You only pay taxes when you sell Bitcoin (or any other asset) at a higher value than what you paid for it. That's capital gains tax. You're paying on the extra money that you have.

You only pay on the extra money, not the initial one that's already taxed.

You can have unlimited capitals gains and taxes on them but you can't deduct unlimited capital losses you can only deduct $3000 per year no matter how much you lost. so its not a fair thing. even with carryover rules, etc. still not fair.

Henrobakkara

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Quote from: fzkto on September 11, 2022, 06:54:24 AM

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Exactly. Is there not supposed to be activity in the network? should all Bitcoins just remain in the wallets for the value to continue to rise? I believe people overreact when such wallet movement happens like the market is going to crash, I would have said if this happened when the market was at ATH, meaning someone wants to dump but I don't see that here.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 11, 2022, 08:44:44 PM

the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

I do agree. As nullama has pointed out, with bitcoin you are paying capital gains tax on your profits as measured in USD, at least in the US anyway. And you can claim tax relief on your losses. But all that hinges on the fact the IRS treats bitcoin as an asset. It would be far better to treat bitcoin as what it is - a currency - at which point these taxes don't apply.

However, we will have much more success in excluding small value transactions from these ridiculous tax laws in the first instance than trying to exclude all transactions.

kamvreto

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Quote from: noormcs5 on September 12, 2022, 12:56:08 AM

Quote from: fzkto on September 11, 2022, 06:54:24 AM

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Anyone who is holding bitcoins won't sell them for so long, and won't dump them altogether in the market. Secondly, fundamentally nothing is changed in bitcoin.
Bitcoin price is volatile and old investors already know it. The price will never be a reason for them to dump the coins when they know that bitcoin will reach another all-time high.

the old holders will only hold back until their ultimate target is achieved. Before the main target is achieved they only look at accommodating bitcoins that are sold in the market at a cheap price. 5,000 BTC is still relatively small, there are many more bitcoins on hold. when they start selling some of the bitcoins they hold, maybe the crypto market will get a little shaken up.

noormcs5

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Quote from: fzkto on September 11, 2022, 06:54:24 AM

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Anyone who is holding bitcoins won't sell them for so long, and won't dump them altogether in the market. Secondly, fundamentally nothing is changed in bitcoin.
Bitcoin price is volatile and old investors already know it. The price will never be a reason for them to dump the coins when they know that bitcoin will reach another all-time high.

yazher

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Quote from: fzkto on September 11, 2022, 06:54:24 AM

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

With this kind of topic created every single move by the old holders is really not good. Imagine, you have your own bitcoins and you decide whatever you want from it and some random people start talking about it. Anyway, they can't do anything anyway but just watch the movement of the transactions, and whatever they want with their bitcoins is totally fine because in the first place they've been holding for so long and the time finally comes for them to sell some of it and leave their life with their earnings.

nullama

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 11, 2022, 08:44:44 PM

~snip~
the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

They are different taxes though. You never pay tax twice.

When you receive money from work, you pay income taxes.

If you buy Bitcoin with that money and then immediately sell at the same price (let's ignore exchange fees for now) you don't have to pay any more taxes.

You only pay taxes when you sell Bitcoin (or any other asset) at a higher value than what you paid for it. That's capital gains tax. You're paying on the extra money that you have.

You only pay on the extra money, not the initial one that's already taxed.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 11, 2022, 06:13:28 AM

Not any easier than to do the exact same thing with cash, and in fact, far more difficult since there remains a permanent and immutable record of the fact you have done this. Centralized exchanges and payment processors would very quickly report you even if you tried to do this.

Well yeah, if the only way to own bitcoin was through centralized exchanges and there was no such thing as self-custody then sure. but people dont have to keep their bitcoin on centralized exchanges and they don't need payment processors for paying someone using bitcoin. they only need those things as endpoints, aka, cashing out. but even cashing out can be done without them as I'm sure you already know.

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I actually think the limit should be higher, maybe in the region of $1,000, especially over time as bitcoin continues to gain value against the rapid inflation of the dollar. But better to get a low limit passed first and then work on increasing it.

the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

gunhell16

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According to his tx id, he already had 5000 BTC in his wallet in 2013, after 9 years on the month of August 29, 2022,
he took it out according to the picture you see.

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But the next day August 30, 2022, he withdrew bitcoin again in the amount of 5001btc which is the same year, month,
and the bitcoin was received.

It turns out that only one person did it and the total amount of bitcoins he released immediately in consecutive days is 10k bitcoins,
which if we change it to dollars at the current price of bitcoins, the total is more than 210M$.

fzkto

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Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 10, 2022, 09:51:35 PM

probably for good reason too since people would just structure their purchases and send multiple amounts for under $200 which add up to the total purchase price. easy to do with bitcoin. taxes evaded.

Not any easier than to do the exact same thing with cash, and in fact, far more difficult since there remains a permanent and immutable record of the fact you have done this. Centralized exchanges and payment processors would very quickly report you even if you tried to do this.

I actually think the limit should be higher, maybe in the region of $1,000, especially over time as bitcoin continues to gain value against the rapid inflation of the dollar. But better to get a low limit passed first and then work on increasing it.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 10, 2022, 03:37:02 AM

There is also a bill kicking around Congress which would exempt all bitcoin transactions under $200 from tax, which would mean bitcoin can be used as a daily currency for the majority of people without having to worry about tax reporting.

yeah i heard about that a while back but i think they put it on the backburner and it'll probably be forgotten. probably for good reason too since people would just structure their purchases and send multiple amounts for under $200 which add up to the total purchase price. easy to do with bitcoin. taxes evaded.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 10, 2022, 12:28:12 AM

The small profits you might make will certainly be outweighed by all the reporting requirements.

I don't think this is true at all. If you simply buy and hold, then the reporting requirements are not onerous at all (or indeed, non-existent until you sell or trade your bitcoin), and you will make a much better profit buying and holding bitcoin for 10 years than you will holding rapidly inflationary USD. There is also a bill kicking around Congress which would exempt all bitcoin transactions under $200 from tax, which would mean bitcoin can be used as a daily currency for the majority of people without having to worry about tax reporting.

Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 10, 2022, 12:28:12 AM

In that case, hopefully other prison inmates accept bitcoin and you can have a way of sending it to them inside the joint.

There are many scenarios in which someone is not a prisoner but still has their assets frozen by the government. Recent examples include loads of private Russian citizens around the world, and a bunch of Canadian and US citizens who donated to the Canadian trucker protest. Bitcoin solves this.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 04, 2022, 03:17:38 AM

Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on September 03, 2022, 07:22:26 PM

I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway.

I agree, and the mandatory question right at the top of Form 1040 is just the beginning. No doubt the government will want full self-reporting of every wallet address you control in the future.

Which is why it probably won't be worth being involved in crypto for usa residents. That's just being honest. The small profits you might make will certainly be outweighed by all the reporting requirements. I mean they almost already are. You have to file capital gains tax forms and pay too! Plus make declaratiions. And then if they don't believe you, you might get audited on your crypto! So much for bitcoin being semi-anonymous then. you're gonna hand over every address you control to them then so they can see EVERYTHING. Huh

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But the fact remains - if you fail to comply with fiat regulations, then the government can take your fiat out your bank accounts with ease. If you fail to comply with bitcoin regulations, the government can't take anything unless you hand it over to them.

In that case, hopefully other prison inmates accept bitcoin and you can have a way of sending it to them inside the joint. Shocked

a good use case for brainwallets ...?

DaveF

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Quote from: EdenHazard on September 05, 2022, 08:10:36 AM

It seems so easy for those whales to shake the market in uncertainity.

Simply moving the coins! Especially the dormant one! So you can get more bitcoin in these bearish run. Crazy to speculate that those thousands of bitcoin are going to dropped in the market all at once.
Too much possibility with really limited sources to reveal the fact , bitcoin transacted decentralized so yeah who knows.

Yet again I am saying the same thing that people refuse to understand. But one more time people.

The volume of BTC <-> USD / USDT / other 'stable' coins is on the order of $7 BILLION dollars a day at a minimum. There is about another BILLION dollars a day in BTC <-> alts.

If they dump it all at ones it's adding $100 million to the pot. Yes it MIGHT move the value SLIGHTLY. BUT MOST PROBABLY NOT.

Depending on who you ask / where you look there is probably close to another 10% in trading not being shown in the $7 billion number due to OTC and other places that are not being reported in the CMC / coingecko type places.

-Dave

EdenHazard

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It seems so easy for those whales to shake the market in uncertainity.

Simply moving the coins! Especially the dormant one! So you can get more bitcoin in these bearish run. Crazy to speculate that those thousands of bitcoin are going to dropped in the market all at once.
Too much possibility with really limited sources to reveal the fact , bitcoin transacted decentralized so yeah who knows.

Topic: 5,000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved (Read 1007 times)