51% problem still existant after all coins have been mined ? - page 2.

Soappa

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Quote from: ranochigo on July 27, 2014, 05:41:25 AM

Quote from: Tammy Chan on July 27, 2014, 05:07:59 AM

Quote from: forsakenpnut on July 26, 2014, 02:47:41 PM

cex.io have said they arent intending of launching an attack.

I don't have any info on this, but I found the following thread (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ghashio-and-double-spending-against-betcoin-dice-327767) that mentioned Ghash.io did try to double-spend against a casino...

That was from a long time ago, they already clarified that it isn't them but a previous employee. However, the fact that they refused to take actions to lower their hashrates except to warn people is suspicious. I don't think by posting on Twitter or here would influence much people to move away from their pool.

I don't really understand why Cex doesn't allow its users to point their hashrate to other pools and thus easily lower the Ghash hashrate.
Ghash doesn't charge a pool fee AFAIK, so they should get no benefits from forcing Cex users to mine on Ghash...

ranochigo

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Quote from: Tammy Chan on July 27, 2014, 05:07:59 AM

Quote from: forsakenpnut on July 26, 2014, 02:47:41 PM

cex.io have said they arent intending of launching an attack.

I don't have any info on this, but I found the following thread (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ghashio-and-double-spending-against-betcoin-dice-327767) that mentioned Ghash.io did try to double-spend against a casino...

That was from a long time ago, they already clarified that it isn't them but a previous employee. However, the fact that they refused to take actions to lower their hashrates except to warn people is suspicious. I don't think by posting on Twitter or here would influence much people to move away from their pool.

Tammy Chan

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Quote from: forsakenpnut on July 26, 2014, 02:47:41 PM

cex.io have said they arent intending of launching an attack.

I don't have any info on this, but I found the following thread (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ghashio-and-double-spending-against-betcoin-dice-327767) that mentioned Ghash.io did try to double-spend against a casino...

polynesia

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Quote from: ashe on July 26, 2014, 01:08:32 PM

Most people wont live that long to see all this mined.

I would say none of us (alive now) would live to see that happen. Tongue

ranochigo

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Quote from: wry on July 26, 2014, 06:42:14 PM

Not only will it not go away, if mining becomes so unattractive that fewer people mine the 51% attack becomes even more probable. See dogecoin for this type of death spiral.

Not that possible. People will be giving fees, when no bitcoins is mined, no bitcoin will be released to the market. The demands can be higher if there are more popularity among people, thus pushing the price up. People with low electrical fees and good ASICs can still ROI. It is possible for a ASIC to reach triple the efficiency than what it is now.

hugs1BTC

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Quote from: lynn_402 on July 25, 2014, 08:36:55 AM

Quote from: 42246709215 on July 25, 2014, 08:08:34 AM

Quote from: lynn_402 on July 25, 2014, 08:04:01 AM

Since this will be in more than 50 years, many events can happen to make Bitcoin secure even though there are no block rewards to incencitive miners.

Bitcoin could become widespread enough for mining to be sustainable with transaction feess, or perhaps in 40 years it will switch to PoS v.24 or something like this Wink

There are many other CryptoCurrencies that will finish coin generation soon.... How will they be able to work then if they are that vulnerable ?

All altcoins I know which have finished coin generation use PoS, so no mining is needed.

pos coins have they own vulnerabilities and pos is generally much less secure then pow

wry

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Not only will it not go away, if mining becomes so unattractive that fewer people mine the 51% attack becomes even more probable. See dogecoin for this type of death spiral.

forsakenpnut

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cex.io have said they arent intending of launching an attack.

ashe

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Most people wont live that long to see all this mined.

michaelwang33

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Quote from: Simon8x on July 25, 2014, 11:03:00 AM

Quote from: 42246709215 on July 25, 2014, 08:04:38 AM

But if the majority will stop mining and miner hardware will get very cheap it should be extremely easy to get control over 51% mining power then ?

Some will keep mining for tx fees. Some will keep mining to keep bitcoin alive. Some will mine for fun.

I think the only reason people will mine will be for financial reasons. Hopefully by this time the amount of TX fees will be enough so that miners will be able to cover all of their costs.

ranochigo

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Quote from: polynesia on July 25, 2014, 08:54:29 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 25, 2014, 01:27:42 PM

That's an interesting idea. A person with 1 million BTC (you know who you are) could perhaps run a script that submits a transaction with a 0.1 BTC fee every 10 minutes. It could subsidize miners for 190 years.

And if BTC value shoots up, even 0.01 BTC might be sufficient to enthuse miners. It could subsidize miners like for ever.

It should happen since no coins are added into the market any more. If there are BTC in addresses and the owner have forgotten the private key, it would most likely shoot up since the market volume is lower and the demand would be higher as bitcoin would have gain much much more recognition. But honestly, would any of us here be able to live that long till no bitcoins will be mined?

Relnarien

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Quote from: 42246709215 on July 25, 2014, 08:08:34 AM

Quote from: lynn_402 on July 25, 2014, 08:04:01 AM

Since this will be in more than 50 years, many events can happen to make Bitcoin secure even though there are no block rewards to incencitive miners.

Bitcoin could become widespread enough for mining to be sustainable with transaction feess, or perhaps in 40 years it will switch to PoS v.24 or something like this Wink

There are many other CryptoCurrencies that will finish coin generation soon.... How will they be able to work then if they are that vulnerable ?

Some have died, some will die, and some are struggling. If the dev of a particular altcoin knows enough about programming and economic principles to find a method that will keep his/her coin's blockchain as secure as possible, then it will survive. If it does, then that solution will eventually propagate to other coins, and possibly Bitcoin.

The whole cryptocurrency scene is a huge technological, economic and social experiment. Anything important that we learn from Bitcoin and all the other altcoins are used to further evolve the Bitcoin protocol and all cryptocurrencies in general.

polynesia

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Quote from: odolvlobo on July 25, 2014, 01:27:42 PM

That's an interesting idea. A person with 1 million BTC (you know who you are) could perhaps run a script that submits a transaction with a 0.1 BTC fee every 10 minutes. It could subsidize miners for 190 years.

And if BTC value shoots up, even 0.01 BTC might be sufficient to enthuse miners. It could subsidize miners like for ever.

cinnamon_carter

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yes, this has happened in the alt coin world and has actually caused a few attacks on coins that converted to proof of stake,

with btc by that time the fees should be enough incentive (never mind advancements in technology) pretty fast.....

odolvlobo

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Quote from: polynesia on July 25, 2014, 11:37:34 AM

Quote from: Simon8x on July 25, 2014, 11:03:00 AM

Some will keep mining for tx fees. Some will keep mining to keep bitcoin alive. Some will mine for fun.

And some will have made so much money through BTC, that they would leave a portion of their legacy to pay for mining.

That's an interesting idea. A person with 1 million BTC (you know who you are) could perhaps run a script that submits a transaction with a 0.1 BTC fee every 10 minutes. It could subsidize miners for 190 years.

polynesia

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Quote from: Simon8x on July 25, 2014, 11:03:00 AM

Some will keep mining for tx fees. Some will keep mining to keep bitcoin alive. Some will mine for fun.

And some will have made so much money through BTC, that they would leave a portion of their legacy to pay for mining.

minerpumpkin

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A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night

Quote from: Simon8x on July 25, 2014, 11:03:00 AM

Quote from: 42246709215 on July 25, 2014, 08:04:38 AM

But if the majority will stop mining and miner hardware will get very cheap it should be extremely easy to get control over 51% mining power then ?

Some will keep mining for tx fees. Some will keep mining to keep bitcoin alive. Some will mine for fun.

That's the beauty of it. It effectively is a self-regulating ecosystem. If there's not enough incentive, people just drop off of mining. But some will continue nevertheless. It's not as if we need a minimum number of miners. Just a large enough number that a decentrilazation is effectively achieved.

Simon8x

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Quote from: 42246709215 on July 25, 2014, 08:04:38 AM

But if the majority will stop mining and miner hardware will get very cheap it should be extremely easy to get control over 51% mining power then ?

Some will keep mining for tx fees. Some will keep mining to keep bitcoin alive. Some will mine for fun.

Simon8x

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Quote from: 42246709215 on July 25, 2014, 06:24:17 AM

Someday all Bitcoins will have been mined.

Is mining then still necessary ?

And is the 51% problem still in existance ?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

Mining (Block finding) not only gives the miner block rewards and tx fees, but also puts unconfirmed tx into the blockchain to make it confirmed.

zhinkk

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Quote from: Fredyy on July 25, 2014, 06:31:51 AM

Of cause!

Minging will never end and the last Bitcoin will never be mined!

I'm confused... why? I thought mining of bitcoins WILL end, it's just that miners will have to settle with the transaction fees they get from the blocks.

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