[796.com] RedStarMining.com - the oldest public mining security [15.0(TH/s)] - page 17.

jaeyjay

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: adameb on July 22, 2013, 09:42:36 AM

Quote from: matthewh3 on July 22, 2013, 09:19:38 AM

Quote from: adameb on July 22, 2013, 08:38:41 AM

Our current market cap is 1,171 BTC, and we're talking about OVER doubling the amount of shares to raise 200BTC?

It sounds like these investor buddies are getting half the company almost for free at the rest of our expense.

We currently only have 180(GH/s)@65nm on pre-order. This new investment is bringing 800(GH/s)@28nm. With 400(GH/s) in September and the reminding 400(GH/s) in October. For the record none of my close friends is taking part in this new investment. £1,400 investor local to me I met on the internet and only became friends through this deal. The potential BTC27 investor who is my friend is not investing as those are all the coins he's got any doesn't want to risk them. These new shares are to be distributed amongst eleven different investors so far. If you own shares they're currently worth 2.8(MH/s) each while this new investment will make them worth 7(MH/s) each. As has been stated many times recently.

I'll put a motion up to run until 00:00 Wednesday GMT/UTC. Let just hope the bitcoin price doesn't tank.

All pledges so far have been recorded on this spreadsheet. Please check your amount is correct before the motion is over - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap02rO_j4NLvdFZuMlZnRDFDUFBhaGdsSm9tWkhna2c&usp=sharing

Just to confirm then, based on the New Investors sheet, someone who currently owns as little as 1.5BTC worth of shares could (and absolutely should) sell them at market for .017/share, then pledge them back to you and buy back their shares at .002btc/share?

A few hours ago, according to the btct trading history, someone bought 778 shares for a total price of ~14btc. Meanwhile, Jaejay (on your investor list) pledged 15btc, and stands to receive around 11,000 shares.

Honestly, this is madness.

First of all, at BTC15 at .002 a share, I'm only going to receive 7,500 shares. The spreadsheet is not including the ~20 more coins needed in order to get the Jupiter upgrade which would raise total shares to 140,000.

Second of all, us new investors are getting the short end of the stick in this investment. If I invested my BTC15 into a group buy for KNC Miners, I would be getting at least 10 more gh/s than my investment into RSM. The old shareholders are reaping profits from our loss as they gain an increase in hash rate for their shares. I am also an old shareholder in this company and believe in its future, which is why I'm investing my bitcoins here instead of elsewhere.

adameb

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Quote from: matthewh3 on July 22, 2013, 09:19:38 AM

Quote from: adameb on July 22, 2013, 08:38:41 AM

Our current market cap is 1,171 BTC, and we're talking about OVER doubling the amount of shares to raise 200BTC?

It sounds like these investor buddies are getting half the company almost for free at the rest of our expense.

We currently only have 180(GH/s)@65nm on pre-order. This new investment is bringing 800(GH/s)@28nm. With 400(GH/s) in September and the reminding 400(GH/s) in October. For the record none of my close friends is taking part in this new investment. £1,400 investor local to me I met on the internet and only became friends through this deal. The potential BTC27 investor who is my friend is not investing as those are all the coins he's got any doesn't want to risk them. These new shares are to be distributed amongst eleven different investors so far. If you own shares they're currently worth 2.8(MH/s) each while this new investment will make them worth 7(MH/s) each. As has been stated many times recently.

I'll put a motion up to run until 00:00 Wednesday GMT/UTC. Let just hope the bitcoin price doesn't tank.

All pledges so far have been recorded on this spreadsheet. Please check your amount is correct before the motion is over - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap02rO_j4NLvdFZuMlZnRDFDUFBhaGdsSm9tWkhna2c&usp=sharing

Just to confirm then, based on the New Investors sheet, someone who currently owns as little as 1.5BTC worth of shares could (and absolutely should) sell them at market for .017/share, then pledge them back to you and buy back their shares at .002btc/share?

A few hours ago, according to the btct trading history, someone bought 778 shares for a total price of ~14btc. Meanwhile, Jaejay (on your investor list) pledged 15btc, and stands to receive around 5,500 shares.

Honestly, this is madness. I get that, yes, 200btc is needed, and that 7mh/s is better than 2, but I think that selling new shares at 1/9th of market is a worst possible option. Why not consider people having the option of bidding for more shares; at worst they might sell for half market, which is still 4 times more that what we're diluting with.

At the very least, you should lock these new shares into a fund which can't be converted into tradable shares for 6 months. As it is, it would only take one of the new shareholders to instantly sell everything at market, push the price down to like .006, and still turn themselves a massive profit.

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Quote from: adameb on July 22, 2013, 08:38:41 AM

Our current market cap is 1,171 BTC, and we're talking about OVER doubling the amount of shares to raise 200BTC?

It sounds like these investor buddies are getting half the company almost for free at the rest of our expense.

We currently only have 180(GH/s)@65nm on pre-order. This new investment is bringing 800(GH/s)@28nm. With 400(GH/s) in September and the reminding 400(GH/s) in October. For the record none of my close friends is taking part in this new investment. £1,400 investor local to me I met on the internet and only became friends through this deal. The potential BTC27 investor who is my friend is not investing as those are all the coins he's got any doesn't want to risk them. These new shares are to be distributed amongst eleven different investors so far. If you own shares they're currently worth 2.8(MH/s) each while this new investment will make them worth 7(MH/s) each. As has been stated many times recently.

I'll put a motion up to run until 00:00 Wednesday GMT/UTC. Let just hope the bitcoin price doesn't tank.

All pledges so far have been recorded on this spreadsheet. Please check your amount is correct before the motion is over - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap02rO_j4NLvdFZuMlZnRDFDUFBhaGdsSm9tWkhna2c&usp=sharing

adameb

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Our current market cap is 1,171 BTC, and we're talking about OVER doubling the amount of shares to raise 200BTC?

It sounds like these investor buddies are getting half the company almost for free at the rest of our expense.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: adameb on July 22, 2013, 08:27:27 AM

Quote from: matthewh3 on July 21, 2013, 06:16:47 AM

Yes we're to issue shares at around ~BTC0.002. We currently have 63,865 shares on the market and I'd like to take us up to 140,000 exactly as its a round number. So that would mean the creation of 76,135 new shares. The original price offered was ~BTC0.002055921 but to keep at 140,000 would mean up to BTC0.0021 which is BTC0.002055921 rounded to four significant figures. But if we've to have an odd number of shares so be it. It depends on BTC price when we pay for the KNC's

The new shares are being issued at 1/10th of the cost of market?

Yeah, run by us again why issuing new shares at 1/10th of market makes sense?

You could just put new ones up for sale on market at .004 and raise same money issuing half the shares without all the invisible pledging junk.

That's IF investors vote to have the share price destroyed of course. Wjich is unlikely - as anyone wanting to vote yes would be better off selling their shares then pledging them to get new ones at a fraction of the price.

At worst what you should do is auction the shares on the market if there's a desperate need to sell them - that way you at least get the maximum price per share and it doesn't look like giving away shares to mates.

adameb

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Quote from: matthewh3 on July 21, 2013, 06:16:47 AM

Yes we're to issue shares at around ~BTC0.002. We currently have 63,865 shares on the market and I'd like to take us up to 140,000 exactly as its a round number. So that would mean the creation of 76,135 new shares. The original price offered was ~BTC0.002055921 but to keep at 140,000 would mean up to BTC0.0021 which is BTC0.002055921 rounded to four significant figures. But if we've to have an odd number of shares so be it. It depends on BTC price when we pay for the KNC's

The new shares are being issued at 1/10th of the cost of market?

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Cmark0 on July 22, 2013, 01:25:16 AM

Also, can you clarify how you plan on releasing the new shares, as the expansion plan comes in 2 stages- the arrival of the first KNC miner and later on the second.
Will all those who have pledged have an x percentage of shares released on the first batch, and the rest when the second one is shipped? Or will they all be realeased in one go from the shipment of the first order?

The shares for the first Jupiter will be released once it starts hashing. They will go to the investors who pledged the Saturn and the £1,400 investor. As the investor who pledged the Saturn also pledged BTC10.00. Plus maybe one or two of or part of the earliest pledgers shares if I don't need to pledge. Half of the shares which is nearly 40,000 shares will be released then. The first to have pledged are to get any remaining shares from this half. After the second Jupiter is hashing the other half of the shares will be released ( <40,000 shares) and distributed amongst the remaining new investors.

We currently have BTC95.81 in the RSM wallet and currently it looks like we'll need BTC116.00 in total. I'm going to add all the new investors to the spreadsheet. Then go ahead with our Jupiter pre-order then we can get the pledged Saturn transferred to our KNC account. Then we just need to raise the final BTC16.00 to upgrade the Saturn to a Jupiter.

Cmark0

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Also, can you clarify how you plan on releasing the new shares, as the expansion plan comes in 2 stages- the arrival of the first KNC miner and later on the second.
Will all those who have pledged have an x percentage of shares released on the first batch, and the rest when the second one is shipped? Or will they all be realeased in one go from the shipment of the first order?

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Quote from: pidge on July 21, 2013, 03:25:34 AM

Hi Matthew,

It looks good, but could you please tabulate the offers more clearly?

e.g. (please correct!)
Current assets, 68910 shares, order for 3x60GH BFL Singles
Share Offer #1, additional 20,000 shares @BTC0.02 each, KNC Saturn 200GH, pledges made and paid to cover this
Share Offer #2, additional 20,000 shares @BTC0.02 each, upgrade for above to KNC Jupiter 400GH, pledges made and paid to cover this
Share Offer #3, additional 40,000 shares @BTC0.02 each, addtional KNC Jupiter 400GH, additional BTCx needed.

And IMHO, to dot i's and cross t's, put the motion up.

Yes we're to issue shares at around ~BTC0.002. We currently have 63,865 shares on the market and I'd like to take us up to 140,000 exactly as its a round number. So that would mean the creation of 76,135 new shares. The original price offered was ~BTC0.002055921 but to keep at 140,000 would mean up to BTC0.0021 which is BTC0.002055921 rounded to four significant figures. But if we've to have an odd number of shares so be it. It depends on BTC price when we pay for the KNC's

pidge

member

Activity: 101

Merit: 10

Hi Matthew,

It looks good, but could you please tabulate the offers more clearly?

e.g. (please correct!)
Current assets, 68910 shares, order for 3x60GH BFL Singles
Share Offer #1, additional 20,000 shares @BTC0.02 each, KNC Saturn 200GH, pledges made and paid to cover this
Share Offer #2, additional 20,000 shares @BTC0.02 each, upgrade for above to KNC Jupiter 400GH, pledges made and paid to cover this
Share Offer #3, additional 40,000 shares @BTC0.02 each, addtional KNC Jupiter 400GH, additional BTCx needed.

And IMHO, to dot i's and cross t's, put the motion up.

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

The RSM wallet now has BTC68.56 and we've been offered another BTC30.00. We need about BTC117 to upgrade the Saturn we've been pledged to a Jupiter and also pre-order another Jupiter. This would mean creating just under 80,000 new shares to add 800(GH/s)@28nm. This would take us up to 980(GH/s) over 140,000 shares or 7(MH/s) per share. Up from 180(GH/s)@65nm and 2.8(MH/s) per share. New shares are to be created at BTC0.002 while the current thirty day traded average is BTC0.0195. We're currently only looking for another BTC20 max. I could potentially add that as a last resort if needed.

So it looks like we've settled on the expansion plan and its a good one. Are motions still needed or is everyone happy with our direction. If so I'll try and set it in place next week hopefully.

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

My friend is unsure and pledges his BTC27.00 and I don't want to spend every coin I own again on RSM. As I've already bought 23% of all shares off the exchanges personally. So we have a KNC Saturn pledged and we have the ability to upgrade it to a 400(GH/s) Jupiter and keep its day one pre-order position. For this we'd need about BTC40.00 of the current BTC60.00 we already have or to create around 40,000 new shares only. That'd take us up too 580(GH/s) over ~100,000 shares. Or up to 5.8(MH/s) per share up from our current 2.8(MH/s) per share. So unless we can raise another BTC15.00 to pre order a KNC Saturn with the Jupiter upgrade some pledges may be refunded. If we could raise the BTC15.00 we'd get to 780(GH/s) or 6.5(MH/s) per share. With the option to also upgrade that Saturn to a Jupiter too if/when we can raise the funds. I could flood the market down to BTC0.01 and raise about BTC8.00 ATM and potentially add the rest personally. So that's what the two motions will be on coming up shortly.

Apostle

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Hello everyone I am new investor.
Name is John.
Happy to be here.

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Has everyone who wanted to pledge received their own unique wallet address from within the RSM wallet. If not pm or email me, once all the funds are there it'll be easier to move forward. I've gave everyone their own address in case refunds are needed. The coins will stay at your given address until spent on ASIC's or in the worst case refunded.

canth

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1001

FYI:

dRMergatroid

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Yes, I'm fine with the Jupiter.

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Quote from: dRMergatroid on July 15, 2013, 02:07:52 PM

All right: to summarize my current understanding: Huh

roughly:

New shares created = more than double current amount

New hash rate = x4 current rate

New shares held without dividends until release

New shares releases when new equipment comes online and hashrate increases
(Oct-Nov depending on final upgrade plan)

Did I miss anything?

claimer:
I have pledged!

Current shares ~63,000 new shares ~67,000. New shares for the KNC Saturn and Jupiter could be released as early as September if they ship on time.

Quote from: TheSwede75 on July 15, 2013, 03:52:23 PM

Ordering anything from BFL seems like the worst idea ever.

The £1,600 investor doesn't want his money on KNC as they don't have chips plus we have a 25% BFL discount.

I'm still getting a lot of questions of old early investors who are worried their stock is being diluted and that our growth reinvestment fund is enough. I've tried to explain we still aren't even hashing so the potential growth reinvestment fund just of their pre-ordered equipment is shrinking every day.

Are all the current pledgers apart from the £1,600 investor OK with their pledges going on a KNC Jupiter.

TheSwede75

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Ordering anything from BFL seems like the worst idea ever.

dRMergatroid

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

All right: to summarize my current understanding: Huh

roughly:

New shares created = more than double current amount

New hash rate = x4 current rate

New shares held without dividends until release

New shares releases when new equipment comes online and hashrate increases
(Oct-Nov depending on final upgrade plan)

Did I miss anything?

claimer:
I have pledged!

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Topic: [796.com] RedStarMining.com - the oldest public mining security [15.0(TH/s)] - page 17. (Read 120478 times)