Topic: A crash Brexit looms over the UK (Read 317 times)

That reads perfectly as an assessment of Boris Johnson.

Weirdly I do agree with you that we are governed by an unaccountable elite who are only in it for themselves and give no thought to national interest or indeed human dignity. In the UK this is manifested as the Conservative party.
The EU with its rules and institutions is right-wing compared with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour, and left-wing compared with Boris Johnson's Tories.
I am in favour of remaining in the EU partly because of the trade deal thing that I've already covered elsewhere, but more importantly because although EU laws aren't perfect, they do provide important protections against a billionaire Tory party that is hell-bent on dismantling the state. The Tories - the elites - hate any brake on their power. If they get their way and leave the EU, the Tory government will begin to remove workers' rights, push for further privitisation of the NHS, and lower standards and regulations across the board. They'll start this quicker than you can say "chlorinated chicken".

The elites need to be held in check. Leaving the EU is not the way to do this, it just makes things worse.

Hear hear. The New York Times, CNN and The Daily Mirror are my most trusted sources: if you read the exact opposite of what they write, they're always right. 100% success rating guaranteed.

Was that a joke post? He has done more than anyone to destroy the traditions of one of the oldest parliamentary systems in the world, and also he has attempted to destroy democracy here. And it is all all to help his own fortunes, and those of his Globalist masters and associates.

I hope that his departure will lead to my country being given back to the people, but I doubt if we can get rid of the controllers in the Anglophone empire.

He's standing down tomorrow apparently ( https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/john-bercow-will-stand-down-as-commons-speaker-tomorrow-despite-speculation-he-might-stay-on-a4274161.html ).
Shame, I liked him. Often the only person keeping the idiot MPs in line. One of the few Tories with morals and a conscience.

John Bercow is the MP for Buckinghamshire. I don't understand why his constituents have him removed, and then he would no longer be able to act as speaker. No person other than the rembrancer ( the representative for the City of London, which is now a separate country) is allowed into the parliamentary chamber, unless he has been voted in as a member of parliament.

agree. also
cheddar cheese is actually cheddar cheese from cheddar. not some replicant only branded cheddar like yanks and euros sell

things like potatos.. in england we dont actually get majority of our spuds from ireland they come from egypt. so news of a 'potato famine' is just a joke.

if it becomes too expensive to buy things from europe, great we will make our own again. or get them elsewhere, thus restart industry=more jobs
woo hoo volkswagons too expensive, great we will open our own ford/nissan factories(avoiding euro cars) and also bring back old brands like morris minors. austin. heck even expand the ariel atom to be more popular
we will then put up the price of Jaguar Cars, MINI Cooper, Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce, Land Rover, Bentley Motors Limited
when europe wants to buy them. they can afford it

funny part is britain is not an american state, not an indian state, not an asian state nor a african state or a south american state, yet we continue to de trade with those regions. so no matter what the euro deal is or isnt we will continue.

UK's finance markets and tax/customs office can even soften the blow of euro customs tarrif very easily. by just making europe pay extra for a pound.
EG if £1 product is e1.20(no tarriff) but then euro want to implement a 10% tarriff. britain can just start making europe only get
£1 for thier new $1.32

theres many many thing that can be done. many people dont realise EU actually relis on us more because of our commonwealth ties. yp the EU will end up heving to make new negociations with separate countries because some of the deals before were done via the cmmonwealth treaty being extended to euro to certain conditional trades

It looks as if disaster may be looming. There seems to be a shift away from the very beneficial true Brexit, and towards some deceitful remain variant. Boris Johnson seems to be following in the footsteps of the treasonous Theresa May, but what do you expect from an Eton/Oxford banker.

That is a common tactic, yes, but I think in the UK there is more to it. This can be traced back to David Cameron becoming PM. What happened was the Lib Dems secured a big chunk of the vote in the election (by positioning themselves as more left-wing than Labour), which meant that Labour or the Conservatives could only govern as part of a coalition with the Lib Dems. So the Lib Dems basically decided which party would form the government. They chose to join up with Cameron and the Conservatives, and their price for doing so was that a referendum be held for the Alternative Vote system, a sort of Proportional-Representation-Lite. Cameron gladly agreed, with a simple strategy that as soon as the referendum got started he would campaign vigorously against it - and his plan worked perfectly. Only Oxford and Cambridge I think (obvious high IQ hot-spots) voted in favour, almost all of the rest of the country voted against, and AV lost by a landslide.

Come the next election, the Conservatives faced a threat from UKIP, the party that wanted to leave the EU. So Cameron thought he'd just do the same trick again. He'd siphon off the UKIP vote by promising the Conservatives would have a Brexit referendum, then he'd campaign vigorously against leaving the EU, and win, as he did with AV.

Except he fucked up, lost, and then quit rather than face the consequences.

It really irritates me that the Lib Dems now position themselves as being the party of Remain, when these are the bastards who put Cameron in power and caused the leave vote in the first place. I'm not a fan of the Tories - but at least they are fairly honest about being evil. The Lib Dems shift about like crazy and have no policies or beliefs beyond whatever they think will get them some votes.

The Brexit referendum was only held so the politicians would not be held responsible for the fallout.

They manipulated the public well to vote for a disastrous outcome that they can blame squarely on those that voted for it.

It is a tactic used by Governments. Hold a referendum that will get the outcome that they desire. If it doesn't get the desired outcome then they just do the same thing in a different way. Revaluation and crashing of the pound will burst the bubble and produce new cheap labor from those blue collar workers desperate for a job.

Uncertainty and devaluation create new opportunities for the ultra rich to plunder and enslave.

We had Cromwell, Guy Fawkes and a few others.

Agree 100%. Eton then Oxbridge then government, it's a well-trodden path. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson from the moment he was born probably had a decent percentage chance of becoming prime minister, utterly independent of whatever intelligence or aptitude he might or might not have. Inequality of opportunity is a terrible thing, and is only growing. I often wonder if the UK might be better if we'd had a French-style revolution.

Agreed that democracy requires an electorate with sufficient education and knowledge. I do also think that rights come with attendant responsibilities - if you are given the right to vote, then it's incumbent on you as a voter to ensure that you are as well-informed as possible, so that you can make a responsible decision. Far too many people here (and I daresay in other countries, too) don't make the effort, and have opinions that are simply regurgitated newspaper headlines.

I think this is caused primarily by two things: Firstly our society has advanced sufficiently that (almost) everyone has shelter, food, safety and healthcare - which reduces interest in politics for many people. You are far more likely to feel politically motivated if your survival or well-being is at stake. Obviously it's a good thing that we have progressed to this level, but it's a shame that it impacts negatively on the democratic process. Second point then is that those with a reduced interest are more likely to respond to emotive clickbait and tabloid headlines, which makes them easy to manipulate by the powers that be. Someone who is disengaged is not going to be swayed by an in-depth study of trade deals.

Elections are never truly democratic. You can only vote for candidates who are selected by a ruling elite. This is true for both America and the UK. The EU is slightly different, the elected parliament has no real control, and all the major policy decisions are made by a secret unelected elite. There is also massive control over a country by groups who are not elected. These include judges, civil servants, teachers, and owners of the mass media. Almost all of the members of parliament in the UK are bankers, lawyers and/or politicians, and are products of the Eton/Oxford elite.  Just as an aside, The Eton/Oxford elite has massive control over the US, for example Clinton was a Rhodes scholar at Oxford.

One of the problems with referenda is their binary nature. The Brexit vote was very clear - leave or remain, and the membership articles are very specific about the method of leaving. On submission of the resignation notice, you leave, and there should be a 2 year period to negotiate trade agreements. This period was squandered by Theresa May ( an Oxford banking remainer ), who attempted to reverse the results of the referendum. The mass media has tried to push the concept of shades of Brexit, but there are no such things, Brexit is a very specific and legally defined operation, and it was described clearly at the time of the referendum. Everything else that has been discussed represents various shades of remain. The so called "cliff edge" represents a refusal to utilise the 2 year withdrawal period for the benefit of the EU and the UK, and is not the result of the Brexit decision directly.

Voters in the UK, the US and Europe should be grateful for Brexit, as it is revealing the depth of control exercised by the Anglophone empire that morphed out of the old British Empire. Quiet reflection of the real international news will reveal the difficulties that Donald Trump has in combating the vice like grip it has on Washington, and the same is true of the control the City of London has over Westminster.

The bottom line is that Democracy requires a high average level of education, knowledge of the basics of economy and political awareness. I believe the UK has failed to provide that for an wide population base.

No, I'm saying pretty much the opposite of that. I'm advocating government by a parliament of elected representatives - it's vital that the people in power are held accountable for their decisions. All I'm saying is that when an important decision has to be made, it might be a good idea if the decision is made by the people who have been elected to do so, rather than delegating it to people who don't understand what they're voting for. 

So basically you are arguing that if you need to rule a country you just have to order a Dictator or an Absolute Monarch.... Just so you know, the Illustrated Despotism went away a few centuries ago...

Jet, the agricultural sector in the UK is less than 1% of the GDP, the manufacturing sector less than 25% of the GDP.... you seem to ignore who is really "putting the food on UK's table".

The Brexit situation just highlights for me that referenda referendums plebiscites are in general not a good idea.

We had a roughly 50-50 split between Leave and Remain, and many (arguably most) voters didn't have a f***ing clue what they were voting for. Yes we have fatalist Remainers who think the economy will collapse completely when we leave, but we also have Leavers who are outraged that the UK is still full of people from India and Pakistan - which aren't even in the EU! FFS. If you are a racist xenophobe who hates people with a different skin colour, you're not going reduce immigrants from those countries by putting a ban on white Europeans coming in.

The referendum has highlighted that people are idiots. The reason we have elected MPs is so that they can make informed decisions for us, not so they can just delegate anything of importance to the knuckle-dragging half-wits on the street. If I want someone to do some dentistry on me, I'll get a dentist to do it. If I want to move house I'll hire a conveyancer. If there is a political decision to be made that has profound importance for the future of the country, I want our MPs to make it, not the first random slack-jawed yokel who shuffles out of McDonalds.

Second problem with referenda is that these things force people to take sides. If the politicians decided, then probably the vast majority of the population wouldn't feel strongly about it one way or another. With a popular vote the opposite is true, you force people to take sides against one another, with the result that they dig in, establish battle-lines, become entrenched, and will hold their position no matter what comes against them, be it opponents, objective facts, context, whatever.

Hopefully we can keep the pound low, and take advantage of it to boost manufacturing and agriculture.

There are some interesting developments at the moment. The Anglosphere has been kept safe for many years mainly  as a result of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance ( United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United States ). Theresa May's deal would have taken us out of that, and made us subservient to the EU intelligence agency that they are creating. They want our satellite technology amongst other things, and this is to try to repair the failed Galileo system that was partly funded by us. In return, they have said that we will not be able to access the data. I understand that we have plans to use our expertise to develop our own system.

In fact the EU seems to be trying to distance itself from the Anglosphere, and they have never really accepted English as an EU language. I suspect that the Five Eyes alliance will develop into a trading partnership, although I have not seen anyone else suggest this.

There are good opportunities in UKs companies stocks now.