A Federal judge in new York has not recognized bitcoin as money

pinkflower

sr. member

Activity: 868

Merit: 259

Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on May 06, 2017, 04:37:15 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 06, 2017, 03:32:39 AM

Quote from: iv4n on May 05, 2017, 03:49:04 AM

Bitcoin is will be hot topic for many judges over the world. New York already had couple court sessions about bitcoin and I agree with most members here that in this case people from there can use bitcoins and that will be tax-free for them, that is a good thing for bitcoin, and many people there will see this is as opportunity to avoid taxes, for me that is a gray area and there will be new verdicts about bitcoin in near future.

How can it Bitcoin trades be tax free in the US if its not classified as a currency it will be classified as a commodity? Theres no such thing as tax-free in the US if you must know. Taxation is a means of controlling the people for them.

As quoted it's not taxation free. Every country has its stand on bitcoin usage with limitations and taxation system based on the transaction made. Recently Israel made a statement that there is no opposition for bitcoin usage, but same as the commodity digital gold it will be taxed. So not only US, nowhere it's tax free.

Did Iv4n it wasnt going to be tax-free? Look and read the post I have quoted. He says its going to be tax-free, thats why Im asking asking him how and why he mentioned it.

Now are you claiming it isnt what hes saying or didnt you read Iv4n's post?

ASHLIUSZ

hero member

Activity: 994

Merit: 502

Quote from: pinkflower on May 06, 2017, 03:32:39 AM

Quote from: iv4n on May 05, 2017, 03:49:04 AM

Bitcoin is will be hot topic for many judges over the world. New York already had couple court sessions about bitcoin and I agree with most members here that in this case people from there can use bitcoins and that will be tax-free for them, that is a good thing for bitcoin, and many people there will see this is as opportunity to avoid taxes, for me that is a gray area and there will be new verdicts about bitcoin in near future.

How can it Bitcoin trades be tax free in the US if its not classified as a currency it will be classified as a commodity? Theres no such thing as tax-free in the US if you must know. Taxation is a means of controlling the people for them.

As quoted it's not taxation free. Every country has its stand on bitcoin usage with limitations and taxation system based on the transaction made. Recently Israel made a statement that there is no opposition for bitcoin usage, but same as the commodity digital gold it will be taxed. So not only US, nowhere it's tax free.

pinkflower

sr. member

Activity: 868

Merit: 259

Quote from: iv4n on May 05, 2017, 03:49:04 AM

Bitcoin is will be hot topic for many judges over the world. New York already had couple court sessions about bitcoin and I agree with most members here that in this case people from there can use bitcoins and that will be tax-free for them, that is a good thing for bitcoin, and many people there will see this is as opportunity to avoid taxes, for me that is a gray area and there will be new verdicts about bitcoin in near future.

How can it Bitcoin trades be tax free in the US if its not classified as a currency it will be classified as a commodity? Theres no such thing as tax-free in the US if you must know. Taxation is a means of controlling the people for them.

iv4n

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 1179

Bitcoin is will be hot topic for many judges over the world. New York already had couple court sessions about bitcoin and I agree with most members here that in this case people from there can use bitcoins and that will be tax-free for them, that is a good thing for bitcoin, and many people there will see this is as opportunity to avoid taxes, for me that is a gray area and there will be new verdicts about bitcoin in near future.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: pinkflower on May 05, 2017, 02:17:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 04, 2017, 01:42:44 PM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 04, 2017, 02:57:06 AM

My original point was a currency of some country would be useless to another country because each of their governments wont accept another country's currency to pay as tax. If the United States government started to accept BTC for tax payments try to imagine what effect that would bring to it.

Well, I actually thought you were talking about Bitcoin, after all

Quote

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

In fact, it was my point exactly that a foreign currency would be mostly useless in any country apart from its home one, and I told you that in this respect specifically Bitcoin won't be any different from any other foreign currency out there (unless the latter is accepted as legal tender, of course). You seem to have already forgotten who has been telling what

Hehe yeah. Anyway that was the point. Another point I was trying to make was the government's acceptance of a currency as payment for taxes, in our case its BTC, would give it more value than any future approved Bitcoin ETF investment vehicle. It wouldnt seem that way but if the US government started accepting BTC payments in payment for taxes, license registration and the like, expect the merchants to follow soon.

They don't even need that

Not that they will ever accept Bitcoin as legal tender but they should just treat Bitcoin as a foreign currency and allow banks to open accounts in it. That will suffice and will give a strong boost to Bitcoin popularity on its own. Regarding merchants, whether Bitcoin is legal tender or not is not very important presently. That possibility (of paying taxes with Bitcoin) will kick in if Bitcoin solves its issues with confirmation times and high transaction fees as well as price volatility. These seem to be the major factors preventing merchants from adopting Bitcoin as of now

Restmand

sr. member

Activity: 979

Merit: 258

Quote from: BiTZeD on April 25, 2017, 07:10:30 AM

That is great news ! I want it to not be recognised as money, because we will have to pay taxes for it, but as a commodity, just as the judge told it ! There will be a lesser hype, but who cares, if it permits us to do not give a penny out of our sales !

wonderful idea, thats the thing that I want to bitcoins, it doesnt know by the governments therefore it has no tax and they cannnot give as any accusations. but I dont think that if someday it will be remain unknown to the governments, people are get interested, they are curious, they are confuse and interested on it. I think government will discover this soon.

pinkflower

sr. member

Activity: 868

Merit: 259

Quote from: deisik on May 04, 2017, 01:42:44 PM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 04, 2017, 02:57:06 AM

My original point was a currency of some country would be useless to another country because each of their governments wont accept another country's currency to pay as tax. If the United States government started to accept BTC for tax payments try to imagine what effect that would bring to it.

Well, I actually thought you were talking about Bitcoin, after all

Quote

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

In fact, it was my point exactly that a foreign currency would be mostly useless in any country apart from its home one, and I told you that in this respect specifically Bitcoin won't be any different from any other foreign currency out there (unless the latter is accepted as legal tender, of course). You seem to have already forgotten who has been telling what

Hehe yeah. Anyway that was the point. Another point I was trying to make was the government's acceptance of a currency as payment for taxes, in our case its BTC, would give it more value than any future approved Bitcoin ETF investment vehicle. It wouldnt seem that way but if the US government started accepting BTC payments in payment for taxes, license registration and the like, expect the merchants to follow soon.

Przemax

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Its all comes down to a regulations that are uppon bitcoin exchanges. Thats the reason why the bitcoin must be considered as an asset. Those exchanges operates with fiat money and bitcoin/alts. The bitcoin users are to be controlled by the exchanges because it involves the fiat money, not because it involves bitcoins.

I would guess that if an exchange would work only as an exchange that trades with bitcoins and alts, it wouldn't have to comply with all the banks regulations concerning its users.

I think the bitcoin is not treated as money because the banks have nothing to with it and the money is defined as a bank notes, that are to be regulated by the banking laws. Hence its impossible to regulate bitcoin, its folly to treat it as money.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: pinkflower on May 04, 2017, 02:57:06 AM

My original point was a currency of some country would be useless to another country because each of their governments wont accept another country's currency to pay as tax. If the United States government started to accept BTC for tax payments try to imagine what effect that would bring to it.

Well, I actually thought you were talking about Bitcoin, after all

Quote

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

In fact, it was my point exactly that a foreign currency would be mostly useless in any country apart from its home one, and I told you that in this respect specifically Bitcoin won't be any different from any other foreign currency out there (unless the latter is accepted as legal tender, of course). You seem to have already forgotten who has been telling what

pinkflower

sr. member

Activity: 868

Merit: 259

Quote from: deisik on May 03, 2017, 02:26:01 PM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 02, 2017, 11:56:27 PM

Quote from: deisik on May 02, 2017, 02:03:11 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 02, 2017, 01:19:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 01, 2017, 04:38:47 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 01, 2017, 02:52:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 30, 2017, 03:48:17 AM

So you basically confirm that any fiat currency, maybe, only apart from the major ones that are universally accepted (like the US dollar) are not real ones from a view-point of someone to whom they are of no use. In this way, they are not real currencies, and the whole issue can be happily reduced to what someone thinks about a specific currency (more specifically, whether he can pay taxes with it or not, as per your reasoning). If so, how Bitcoin is different from all these other "unreal" currencies then?

Note that for a Kenyan merchant it is of no importance if someone can pay taxes somewhere with the Japanese Yen

Up to some extent, yes the Japanese Yen will always be useless for a guy in Kenya. But imagine this. If the Kenyan government start accepting Japanese Yen as payment for their people's taxes then everything about it changes. Its like a license for everybody in Kenya to start accepting it

And what does it change in respect to your original claim?

Namely, that Bitcoin is not a currency since it is not accepted as a legal tender anywhere if other currencies are not accepted either (apart from their home countries, of course). Indeed, if the Japanese Yen is adopted by Kenyan government for payment of taxes, it will become quite useful in Kenya, but I could just as well say that the same is equally applicable to Bitcoin. In fact, the chances of some government (like that of Kenya) to accept Bitcoin seem to be a lot higher than accepting the Japanese Yen since the latter is one of many other fiat currencies out there while Bitcoin is unique (even among cryptocurrencies). Strictly speaking, the Japanese Yen is one of the major currencies along with the US dollar, British pound, Swiss franc and Euro

Yeah the same situation with the guy in Kenya who wont accept Japanese Yen as payment because he cant pay his taxes are quite often cant buy anything with them in his country. People could choose to accept something like BTC because its a novelty but think about if its useful for an ordinary store in your country. Its better to accept the local currency

I think an analogy with gold would be better here

Gold is not a legal tender anywhere in the world unless we talk about local gold coins accepted at their face value (i.e. way below there real worth). It is considered as money even less than Bitcoin. Gold is recognized everywhere in the world, though it is still not very useful for daily expenses (just like Bitcoin as such). But you can still exchange it for local currency since it is valued across borders. Bitcoin is in the category of things universally valued, and many countries have exchanges that will allow you to convert your bitcoins to local currencies without much ado

With gold its still a maybe. Maybe your small mom and pop store will accept your gold and bear with the conversion costs and the labor of going somewhere to exchnage them from you. But if you go to a gas station do you think theyll accept your gold? Maybe they will only because its stable and have been used as a store of value for thousands of years. Bitcoin cant claim the same

You are severely sidestepping your original point

Nevertheless, I'm still inclined to think that at a Kenyan gas station you would fare a lot better with gold than Japanese Yen (or some obscure currency the name of which neither of us has ever heard). And this is what my point is basically about. In any country you could sell your gold. It may take time and effort, but this is a way better than to get stuck, say, with Albanian Lek somewhere in Uruguay. The same is essentially applicable to Bitcoin as well, and that has nothing to do with its being novice and whatnot

My original point was a currency of some country would be useless to another country because each of their governments wont accept another country's currency to pay as tax. If the United States government started to accept BTC for tax payments try to imagine what effect that would bring to it.

darklus123

hero member

Activity: 1246

Merit: 588

In some ways it is good for the 31 year old guy who is a bitcoin user. Yet i cannot agree on the fact that this is not a money bitcoin is a currency which for me equates to a form gold money

Silberman

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1338

Quote from: Forester618 on April 25, 2017, 07:07:05 AM

A Federal judge in new York has recommended to cancel the charges of money laundering on local business based on the definition that Bitcoin does not fall under the definition of money. Instead, the judge Hugh B. Scott ruled that Bitcoin is more like a commodity. While he noted that Bitcoin might one day become so reasonable that it can be considered as money, Scott suggested that he currently has more in common with collectibles such as trading cards and other novelty items.
The case involved a 31-year-old man who allegedly sold Bitcoins for $13 000 to the agent in an attempt to launder money and distribute drugs. However, the interpretation of Scott was adopted by the district judge of the United States Charles Siragusa, who expressed skepticism about the possible consequences.
This is a controversial issue, so lawyers for the defendants said that they will try to withdraw the petition. In this situation, the protection refers to the scepticism of Siragusa as a defining factor in their current strategy. Lawyers of the defendant also stressed that their client is in no way connected with the so-called darknet market and just traded Bitcoins, like other trading "baseball cards, stamps or coins."

Bitcoin is money, but if they don’t want to recognize it as such then take advantage of it, this means that you can exchange it as you see fit, and not to have to report it, while it may seem bitcoin not being recognized as a currency is bad I think this is a good news

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: pinkflower on May 02, 2017, 11:56:27 PM

Quote from: deisik on May 02, 2017, 02:03:11 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 02, 2017, 01:19:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 01, 2017, 04:38:47 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 01, 2017, 02:52:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 30, 2017, 03:48:17 AM

So you basically confirm that any fiat currency, maybe, only apart from the major ones that are universally accepted (like the US dollar) are not real ones from a view-point of someone to whom they are of no use. In this way, they are not real currencies, and the whole issue can be happily reduced to what someone thinks about a specific currency (more specifically, whether he can pay taxes with it or not, as per your reasoning). If so, how Bitcoin is different from all these other "unreal" currencies then?

Note that for a Kenyan merchant it is of no importance if someone can pay taxes somewhere with the Japanese Yen

Up to some extent, yes the Japanese Yen will always be useless for a guy in Kenya. But imagine this. If the Kenyan government start accepting Japanese Yen as payment for their people's taxes then everything about it changes. Its like a license for everybody in Kenya to start accepting it

And what does it change in respect to your original claim?

Namely, that Bitcoin is not a currency since it is not accepted as a legal tender anywhere if other currencies are not accepted either (apart from their home countries, of course). Indeed, if the Japanese Yen is adopted by Kenyan government for payment of taxes, it will become quite useful in Kenya, but I could just as well say that the same is equally applicable to Bitcoin. In fact, the chances of some government (like that of Kenya) to accept Bitcoin seem to be a lot higher than accepting the Japanese Yen since the latter is one of many other fiat currencies out there while Bitcoin is unique (even among cryptocurrencies). Strictly speaking, the Japanese Yen is one of the major currencies along with the US dollar, British pound, Swiss franc and Euro

Yeah the same situation with the guy in Kenya who wont accept Japanese Yen as payment because he cant pay his taxes are quite often cant buy anything with them in his country. People could choose to accept something like BTC because its a novelty but think about if its useful for an ordinary store in your country. Its better to accept the local currency

I think an analogy with gold would be better here

Gold is not a legal tender anywhere in the world unless we talk about local gold coins accepted at their face value (i.e. way below there real worth). It is considered as money even less than Bitcoin. Gold is recognized everywhere in the world, though it is still not very useful for daily expenses (just like Bitcoin as such). But you can still exchange it for local currency since it is valued across borders. Bitcoin is in the category of things universally valued, and many countries have exchanges that will allow you to convert your bitcoins to local currencies without much ado

With gold its still a maybe. Maybe your small mom and pop store will accept your gold and bear with the conversion costs and the labor of going somewhere to exchnage them from you. But if you go to a gas station do you think theyll accept your gold? Maybe they will only because its stable and have been used as a store of value for thousands of years. Bitcoin cant claim the same

You are severely sidestepping your original point

Nevertheless, I'm still inclined to think that at a Kenyan gas station you would fare a lot better with gold than Japanese Yen (or some obscure currency the name of which neither of us has ever heard). And this is what my point is basically about. In any country you could sell your gold. It may take time and effort, but this is a way better than to get stuck, say, with Albanian Lek somewhere in Uruguay. The same is essentially applicable to Bitcoin as well, and that has nothing to do with its being novice and whatnot

olubams

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 503

Quote from: Forester618 on April 25, 2017, 07:07:05 AM

A Federal judge in new York has recommended to cancel the charges of money laundering on local business based on the definition that Bitcoin does not fall under the definition of money. Instead, the judge Hugh B. Scott ruled that Bitcoin is more like a commodity. While he noted that Bitcoin might one day become so reasonable that it can be considered as money, Scott suggested that he currently has more in common with collectibles such as trading cards and other novelty items.
The case involved a 31-year-old man who allegedly sold Bitcoins for $13 000 to the agent in an attempt to launder money and distribute drugs. However, the interpretation of Scott was adopted by the district judge of the United States Charles Siragusa, who expressed skepticism about the possible consequences.
This is a controversial issue, so lawyers for the defendants said that they will try to withdraw the petition. In this situation, the protection refers to the scepticism of Siragusa as a defining factor in their current strategy. Lawyers of the defendant also stressed that their client is in no way connected with the so-called darknet market and just traded Bitcoins, like other trading "baseball cards, stamps or coins."

I really don't have any issue with the interpretation the judge is giving because everyone is entitled to his/her opinion the same way we have other people who believes bitcoin is a form of HYIP but whats different here is because the Judge is in a position in which his opinion is having some influence over others and until there is a clear cut law on the subject matter, there will always be issue like this going forward and another judge in Nebraska can think differently on the same issue.

shield132

hero member

Activity: 2352

Merit: 905

Metawin.com - Truly the best casino ever

People think a little, if you think that bitcoin isn't money, than why do you want it? Especially sig camp people, your say that bitcoin isn't money for you but I believe you exchange it on money immediately when you receive it.
Let's be honest, it's possible to exchange btc so this means it's money, it has it's value.
And someone said that if bitcoin will be considered as money, we have to pay fees. Well, when you exchange it. aren't you paying fees? But exchanger coveres fees of goverment and they take another part of fee for theirself.

MingLee

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 520

I thought that someone else had ruled Bitcoin as an asset that was to be defined and taxed in the same way that "capital gains" assets are taxed, but that was a while ago and things change so I might be wrong. This doesn't surprise me though, and chances are they want to get more of a cut through taxes for the future. I don't know if that's a fair comment, but the US judicial system is kind of weird so I dunno what to expect in the future.

lionheart78

legendary

Activity: 2954

Merit: 1153

Quote from: shinratensei_ on April 30, 2017, 10:06:48 AM

Only japan and no more. Japan already determined bitcoin as legal payment which means if bitcoin can be determined as a legal currency in his country, but not for another country. They're just announcing about the bitcoin not for the legal status of bitcoin itself.

Philippines recognized Bitcoin as money. Some state of USA is considering Bitcoin as money (though this won't count for now). So this will at least add to your info that not only Japan see Bitcoin as money.

I guess the decision were issued because there is not enough basis for Bitcoin to be considered as money during that time. So definitely the judge will issue a dismissal since the charges is proven not supported by written legalities about Bitcoin.

pinkflower

sr. member

Activity: 868

Merit: 259

Quote from: deisik on May 02, 2017, 02:03:11 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 02, 2017, 01:19:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 01, 2017, 04:38:47 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 01, 2017, 02:52:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 30, 2017, 03:48:17 AM

So you basically confirm that any fiat currency, maybe, only apart from the major ones that are universally accepted (like the US dollar) are not real ones from a view-point of someone to whom they are of no use. In this way, they are not real currencies, and the whole issue can be happily reduced to what someone thinks about a specific currency (more specifically, whether he can pay taxes with it or not, as per your reasoning). If so, how Bitcoin is different from all these other "unreal" currencies then?

Note that for a Kenyan merchant it is of no importance if someone can pay taxes somewhere with the Japanese Yen

Up to some extent, yes the Japanese Yen will always be useless for a guy in Kenya. But imagine this. If the Kenyan government start accepting Japanese Yen as payment for their people's taxes then everything about it changes. Its like a license for everybody in Kenya to start accepting it

And what does it change in respect to your original claim?

Namely, that Bitcoin is not a currency since it is not accepted as a legal tender anywhere if other currencies are not accepted either (apart from their home countries, of course). Indeed, if the Japanese Yen is adopted by Kenyan government for payment of taxes, it will become quite useful in Kenya, but I could just as well say that the same is equally applicable to Bitcoin. In fact, the chances of some government (like that of Kenya) to accept Bitcoin seem to be a lot higher than accepting the Japanese Yen since the latter is one of many other fiat currencies out there while Bitcoin is unique (even among cryptocurrencies). Strictly speaking, the Japanese Yen is one of the major currencies along with the US dollar, British pound, Swiss franc and Euro

Yeah the same situation with the guy in Kenya who wont accept Japanese Yen as payment because he cant pay his taxes are quite often cant buy anything with them in his country. People could choose to accept something like BTC because its a novelty but think about if its useful for an ordinary store in your country. Its better to accept the local currency

I think an analogy with gold would be better here

Gold is not a legal tender anywhere in the world unless we talk about local gold coins accepted at their face value (i.e. way below there real worth). It is considered as money even less than Bitcoin. Gold is recognized everywhere in the world, though it is still not very useful for daily expenses (just like Bitcoin as such). But you can still exchange it for local currency since it is valued across borders. Bitcoin is in the category of things universally valued, and many countries have exchanges that will allow you to convert your bitcoins to local currencies without much ado

With gold its still a maybe. Maybe your small mom and pop store will accept your gold and bear with the conversion costs and the labor of going somewhere to exchnage them from you. But if you go to a gas station do you think theyll accept your gold? Maybe they will only because its stable and have been used as a store of value for thousands of years. Bitcoin cant claim the same.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: pinkflower on May 02, 2017, 01:19:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 01, 2017, 04:38:47 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 01, 2017, 02:52:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 30, 2017, 03:48:17 AM

So you basically confirm that any fiat currency, maybe, only apart from the major ones that are universally accepted (like the US dollar) are not real ones from a view-point of someone to whom they are of no use. In this way, they are not real currencies, and the whole issue can be happily reduced to what someone thinks about a specific currency (more specifically, whether he can pay taxes with it or not, as per your reasoning). If so, how Bitcoin is different from all these other "unreal" currencies then?

Note that for a Kenyan merchant it is of no importance if someone can pay taxes somewhere with the Japanese Yen

Up to some extent, yes the Japanese Yen will always be useless for a guy in Kenya. But imagine this. If the Kenyan government start accepting Japanese Yen as payment for their people's taxes then everything about it changes. Its like a license for everybody in Kenya to start accepting it

And what does it change in respect to your original claim?

Namely, that Bitcoin is not a currency since it is not accepted as a legal tender anywhere if other currencies are not accepted either (apart from their home countries, of course). Indeed, if the Japanese Yen is adopted by Kenyan government for payment of taxes, it will become quite useful in Kenya, but I could just as well say that the same is equally applicable to Bitcoin. In fact, the chances of some government (like that of Kenya) to accept Bitcoin seem to be a lot higher than accepting the Japanese Yen since the latter is one of many other fiat currencies out there while Bitcoin is unique (even among cryptocurrencies). Strictly speaking, the Japanese Yen is one of the major currencies along with the US dollar, British pound, Swiss franc and Euro

Yeah the same situation with the guy in Kenya who wont accept Japanese Yen as payment because he cant pay his taxes are quite often cant buy anything with them in his country. People could choose to accept something like BTC because its a novelty but think about if its useful for an ordinary store in your country. Its better to accept the local currency

I think an analogy with gold would be better here

Gold is not a legal tender anywhere in the world unless we talk about local gold coins accepted at their face value (i.e. way below there real worth). It is considered as money even less than Bitcoin. Gold is recognized everywhere in the world, though it is still not very useful for daily expenses (just like Bitcoin as such). But you can still exchange it for local currency since it is valued across borders. Bitcoin is in the category of things universally valued, and many countries have exchanges that will allow you to convert your bitcoins to local currencies without much ado

pinkflower

sr. member

Activity: 868

Merit: 259

Quote from: deisik on May 01, 2017, 04:38:47 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on May 01, 2017, 02:52:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 30, 2017, 03:48:17 AM

So you basically confirm that any fiat currency, maybe, only apart from the major ones that are universally accepted (like the US dollar) are not real ones from a view-point of someone to whom they are of no use. In this way, they are not real currencies, and the whole issue can be happily reduced to what someone thinks about a specific currency (more specifically, whether he can pay taxes with it or not, as per your reasoning). If so, how Bitcoin is different from all these other "unreal" currencies then?

Note that for a Kenyan merchant it is of no importance if someone can pay taxes somewhere with the Japanese Yen

Up to some extent, yes the Japanese Yen will always be useless for a guy in Kenya. But imagine this. If the Kenyan government start accepting Japanese Yen as payment for their people's taxes then everything about it changes. Its like a license for everybody in Kenya to start accepting it

And what does it change in respect to your original claim?

Namely, that Bitcoin is not a currency since it is not accepted as a legal tender anywhere if other currencies are not accepted either (apart from their home countries, of course). Indeed, if the Japanese Yen is adopted by Kenyan government for payment of taxes, it will become quite useful in Kenya, but I could just as well say that the same is equally applicable to Bitcoin. In fact, the chances of some government (like that of Kenya) to accept Bitcoin seem to be a lot higher than accepting the Japanese Yen since the latter is one of many other fiat currencies out there while Bitcoin is unique (even among cryptocurrencies). Strictly speaking, the Japanese Yen is one of the major currencies along with the US dollar, British pound, Swiss franc and Euro

Yeah the same situation with the guy in Kenya who wont accept Japanese Yen as payment because he cant pay his taxes are quite often cant buy anything with them in his country. People could choose to accept something like BTC because its a novelty but think about if its useful for an ordinary store in your country. Its better to accept the local currency.

Topic: A Federal judge in new York has not recognized bitcoin as money (Read 2526 times)