A hard manipulation? | Bitcointalksearch.org

pooya87

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 14, 2020, 12:42:03 PM

You know what is funny?

When Ifinex was printing tether to boost the bull market in 2017, everybody freaked out. Then you had the tether FUD, based on the view it was morally wrong to print tether when there was no dollar to cover it, even when this was fueling bitcoin's rising to all time highs and prompting adoption by merchants.

But when its Bitmex using its paper contracts to boost the bear market, nobody says a word. And when I say that paper manipulation (futures, options, derivatives, etc) is literally stealing, then people freak out and says this is "normal" market behavior, even when this might hurt adoption of bitcoin in the long term.

Its like people have been programmed to be poor and to accept failure as a default condition of existence.

it is simply because the FUD machine has not yet chosen that topic to put it under magnifying glass.
you know what is even funnier? Tether has been printing like crazy before 2017 bull market and even more during 2018 dumps. but nobody even talked about why (if the FUD were true) bitcoin price was dropping while Tether was printing more than 2017.

it is like the recently popularized thing about "whales move a lot of bitcoin" FUD where during drops you see a lot of talks about big transactions whereas nobody talks about the same big transactions during price rises or any other time and they are happening just the same during those times too. why? because the FUD machine doesn't put it under magnifying glass and sheeple don't bother using their own heads.

ukon

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Quote from: OrangeII on March 15, 2020, 11:14:58 PM

I believe what you say, it's just that the current conditions really match. actually, it's not just bitcoin, but gold and other investments are also dumping quite badly, it's just that the decline in bitcoin is too sudden. This makes me think that there is a possibility of manipulation. however, until now I have not planned to sell my assets to become fiat, I still believe that halving will bring a big increase. Well, when halving happened, I think many people who want to have bitcoin in their wallet.

It might be urgent because of the panic too, so many sell their crypto and dumping also occurs throughout the crypto market, well indeed the global economy is in accordance with crypto, but they can still prevent it and not be too bad in losses so that there are still sticking with stocks they also have security in fiat money so they are waiting for the market to stabilize again.

I do not know whether this huge dump is due to large whale manipulation or because of the effect of this virus because there is no accurate news in my opinion, but overall, all markets are down.

OrangeII

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I believe what you say, it's just that the current conditions really match. actually, it's not just bitcoin, but gold and other investments are also dumping quite badly, it's just that the decline in bitcoin is too sudden. This makes me think that there is a possibility of manipulation. however, until now I have not planned to sell my assets to become fiat, I still believe that halving will bring a big increase. Well, when halving happened, I think many people who want to have bitcoin in their wallet.

Sanitough

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The drop is not normal, it's cause by a panic but there is no panic going to happen if the whales would not drop the bomb, they initiated it and therefore the people followed, and you know what, even if they dump, they are still going to make more money once this covid-19 pandemic is over.

It's about playing smart here, be smart and don't follow the weak hands, they are the ones feeding why the whales getting more richer.

I learn from the past so definitely I am not gonna fall for this panic again, I still hold and accumulate if I still can.

exstasie

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Quote from: adaseb on March 14, 2020, 11:37:18 PM

If they didn't go down during that time to let the market rest.... BTC would go to $0 on pretty much most exchanges... especially the index ones which algos use. Its too bad that there are no circuit breakers in BTC. I think after this event, that derivatives won't drive the markets as much as before. Its just too risky.

What do you expect to change? You think traders will stop flocking to Bitmex? Crazy liquidations tend to cool the market off for a while but the whales and high leverage gamblers always eventually come back for more.

Even if algo driven, there are limits to the downside. It becomes harder to dump as the price drops since less capital is required to absorb supply. Plus spot exchanges require real BTC on deposit yet Bitmex only processes withdrawals once per day. We were never headed to $0 no matter what Bitmex did. It just felt that way. That's how capitulation feels. Tongue

fabiorem

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Quote from: adaseb on March 14, 2020, 11:37:18 PM

If they didn't go down during that time to let the market rest.... BTC would go to $0 on pretty much most exchanges... especially the index ones which algos use. Its too bad that there are no circuit breakers in BTC. I think after this event, that derivatives won't drive the markets as much as before. Its just too risky.

Maybe this time the exchanges start to implement circuit breakers on their own. They are very necessary for a healthy market. In my opinion, exchanges should build a consensus where they compromise on having circuit breakers.

hatshepsut93

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Sure it's a manipulation, but it couldn't have happened without the external factors, the magnitude would simply not be as great. Stock market crash triggered this panic, investors across all markets are cashing out, Bitcoin just got hit hard because it's so volatile and lacks liquidity. But I doubt such manipulations can be easily repeated, the market becomes cautious after some time. Everyone want to buy the dip now, after they saw how it bounced from $3,900 to $5,700 in less than an hour.

rodskee

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Quote from: Pffrt on March 12, 2020, 08:28:50 AM

Last week was full goods news in favor BTC. In the past, we have seen significant growth of price for such kind of news. But this time, with more good news and halving knocking the door, the price is decreased massively. Some concluded it as dump from Plustoken. Now one of the oldest address moving fund (not confirmed if the coins are on sale.
I have bolded halving because it seems a heavy manipulation done by whales before halving. The recent dump has something to do with the halving I think.
Don't hand over your BTC to the whales, they are the one looking for that.

Of course why ned to hand over to the whales when we can just Hold it on our own wallets?the problem now is those people who’re very
afraid of losing when market is dipping but they don’t realize that it is the target of these whales on how they can bag our bitcoin.
Keep the holding and just let market do its way,if this will heading to more dumping so be it even if $3k value hits again anyway we are the one
who will benefits from this when halving comes.

Oasisman

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on March 13, 2020, 05:42:46 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 13, 2020, 04:12:53 AM

Quote from: Artemis3 on March 12, 2020, 12:25:52 PM

What a great opportunity to buy bitcoin cheap, for those that survive the virus...

~snip~

Sure covid-19 is highly contagious, but its far life threatening than Sars or Ebola. Yes, the numbers of death are high, but the number of cases are much higher. So, obviously we're talking about the mortality rate here and covid-19 with only 2% mortality rate is far lower than SARS 10%. Most of these deaths are elderly, people who has weak immune system, or people who are afraid to be quarantined and be healed, thus admitting to the hospital was too late.

Quote from: Yaunfitda on March 13, 2020, 05:42:46 AM

Manipulation or not, the market is already suffering from the COVID-19 scare, it's really up to us, if you are an intelligent investors and looking for a good returns in the future.

Agree. There's panic in the market as well as manipulation in cryptocurrency.

Quote from: Yaunfitda on March 13, 2020, 05:42:46 AM

then maybe this is the right time to buy.

Not maybe, but definitely the right time to buy. The panic from the pandemic just destroyed the global market, imagine the millions or billions of dollars the whales could earn when the market recovers.

adaseb

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 14, 2020, 12:59:28 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on March 14, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

I find it kind of strange how rarely Bitmex is mentioned here and in many other places as any type of factor. It's a market monster in the way Bitfinex was in the past even if it isn't 'real' bitcoins.

There's no getting away from paper. It would be nice if it were run by competent and compliant people rather than folks who openly trade against their customers.

If the guy from Bitmex had not hit the kill switch, the dropping would continue until sub-$1000. Probably Peter Brandt knew what was happening and made that prediction based on this.

Going sideways is no sign we are out of the bear market, quite the contrary. The price would need to recover at least 2/3 of the ATH before calling for a bull market. This is the Fibonacci 0.618 retracement after the ATH. Notice that nobody talks about the retracement anymore, the subject died with the bull market. Now its only a matter of "faith", of "believing" that bitcoin will go up. That's why I think the bear market might be permanent, or at least will last for more than five years.

Only collusion through force could remove the paper speculation from cryptospace. Since I dont believe the exchanges will band together to do this, we will need to learn to live with it, and to accept a ATH is no longer possible.

The dropping wouldn't stop at sub-$1000, it would basically stop at $0. Did you trade during that time? There was literally....literally no buy liquidity and there was massive $10M liquidations that kept popping up and nobody wanted to take the trade. It kept going lower and lower. And as it went lower. More and more liquidations were added and pretty soon it was over a billion.

If they didn't go down during that time to let the market rest.... BTC would go to $0 on pretty much most exchanges... especially the index ones which algos use. Its too bad that there are no circuit breakers in BTC. I think after this event, that derivatives won't drive the markets as much as before. Its just too risky.

ScamViruS

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Quote from: Pffrt on March 12, 2020, 08:28:50 AM

Last week was full goods news in favor BTC. In the past, we have seen significant growth of price for such kind of news. But this time, with more good news and halving knocking the door, the price is decreased massively. Some concluded it as dump from Plustoken. Now one of the oldest address moving fund (not confirmed if the coins are on sale.
I have bolded halving because it seems a heavy manipulation done by whales before halving. The recent dump has something to do with the halving I think.
Don't hand over your BTC to the whales, they are the one looking for that.

Yeah. Recently we got a lot of good news for Bitcoin and Bitcoin was on the Golden Cross which was giving everyone the signal of the next bull market. The market crashed when most people were waiting for Bitcoin's next insane run. It manipulates by whales and leverage trading exchanges for liquidation of long positions and shakeout weak hands . Retail traders didn't think the market would crash like this.

gentlemand

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 14, 2020, 12:59:28 PM

Only collusion through force could remove the paper speculation from cryptospace. Since I dont believe the exchanges will band together to do this, we will need to learn to live with it, and to accept a ATH is no longer possible.

Ach. We'll see what happens. I expected nothing of this year anyway and it's certainly over delivered so far. I'll start to wonder by the end of next year if nothing positive has occurred by that point.

fabiorem

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Quote from: gentlemand on March 14, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

I find it kind of strange how rarely Bitmex is mentioned here and in many other places as any type of factor. It's a market monster in the way Bitfinex was in the past even if it isn't 'real' bitcoins.

There's no getting away from paper. It would be nice if it were run by competent and compliant people rather than folks who openly trade against their customers.

If the guy from Bitmex had not hit the kill switch, the dropping would continue until sub-$1000. Probably Peter Brandt knew what was happening and made that prediction based on this.

Going sideways is no sign we are out of the bear market, quite the contrary. The price would need to recover at least 2/3 of the ATH before calling for a bull market. This is the Fibonacci 0.618 retracement after the ATH. Notice that nobody talks about the retracement anymore, the subject died with the bull market. Now its only a matter of "faith", of "believing" that bitcoin will go up. That's why I think the bear market might be permanent, or at least will last for more than five years.

Only collusion through force could remove the paper speculation from cryptospace. Since I dont believe the exchanges will band together to do this, we will need to learn to live with it, and to accept a ATH is no longer possible.

gentlemand

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 14, 2020, 12:42:03 PM

But when its Bitmex using its paper contracts to boost the bear market, nobody says a word. And when I say that paper manipulation (futures, options, derivatives, etc) is literally stealing, then people freak out and says this is "normal" market behavior, even when this might hurt adoption of bitcoin in the long term.

Its like people have been programmed to be poor and to accept failure as a default condition of existence.

I find it kind of strange how rarely Bitmex is mentioned here and in many other places as any type of factor. It's a market monster in the way Bitfinex was in the past even if it isn't 'real' bitcoins.

There's no getting away from paper. It would be nice if it were run by competent and compliant people rather than folks who openly trade against their customers.

fabiorem

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You know what is funny?

When Ifinex was printing tether to boost the bull market in 2017, everybody freaked out. Then you had the tether FUD, based on the view it was morally wrong to print tether when there was no dollar to cover it, even when this was fueling bitcoin's rising to all time highs and prompting adoption by merchants.

But when its Bitmex using its paper contracts to boost the bear market, nobody says a word. And when I say that paper manipulation (futures, options, derivatives, etc) is literally stealing, then people freak out and says this is "normal" market behavior, even when this might hurt adoption of bitcoin in the long term.

Its like people have been programmed to be poor and to accept failure as a default condition of existence.

gentlemand

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An interesting thread here on a theory about Bitmex's role in this - https://twitter.com/lowstrife/status/1238818943147507713

He reckons Bitmex basically stopped working properly for quite a period of time and the market bounced as soon as they halted trading on there.

Quote from: fabiorem on March 14, 2020, 11:52:14 AM

I blame zerohedge for having been spreading panic among the markets. Several investors check that site for news.

Then they're twats. We all know what a stirrer that joint is. There's never been a day since its inception that they didn't preach doom.

fabiorem

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I blame zerohedge for having been spreading panic among the markets. Several investors check that site for news.

Personally I believed zerohedge was somewhat of a "outsider" to the legacy system, providing a more impartial view of the markets. This "pandemic" proved they are no different than Joe Rogan and Alex Jones.

You can just check it now, most of the articles there are spreading panic about the flu virus, following the mainstream narrative. No wonder investors liquidated their assets and ran to the dollar.

hirngespenst

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Quote from: Jating on March 14, 2020, 03:57:53 AM

Probably investors are selling because:

1. They are in a panic and wanted to have cash in their wallet
2. Investors moving or shifting their funds around crypto-> traditional market and vice-versa
3. Whales putting a lot of sell order to manipulate the price

As of this time, everything has settled down, so we are all good, but then again if this is manipulation one must be careful, just saying.

This is manipulation, I have no doubt about it. Because the way Bitcoin price showing its volatile, it's not natural, it's manipulating by the whales. Your three points have the possibility, but personally, I don't think wise investor will sell at this price, as they wise so they believe Bitcoin price will be high again surly, the third point has high possibility to be true!

Jating

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Probably investors are selling because:

1. They are in a panic and wanted to have cash in their wallet
2. Investors moving or shifting their funds around crypto-> traditional market and vice-versa
3. Whales putting a lot of sell order to manipulate the price

As of this time, everything has settled down, so we are all good, but then again if this is manipulation one must be careful, just saying.

shoreno

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Quote from: hirngespenst on March 13, 2020, 06:48:30 PM

I am not sure that halving can increase the price immediately, but it seems you are telling the truth! This is a trap by the whales! They are creating panic and saying it's because of Corona, so, people are selling their Bitcoin and whales are winking us! This is the time when everyone should buy bitcoin at low, or stop everything! A wise crypto supporter won't sell at this low to fill the whale's bag!

people only sell because they are afraid to loose more and not really because of corona while there are some that sells too because of corona and not because they see the market is dumping fast hard .

halving is still there and that is one reason why some people are still left here hodling , they are waiting for atleast halving to happen to see if this can really up the price or not but let say not , then its bad because im expecting a harder crash will occur again .

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