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Topic: A Interplanetary Currency - page 4. (Read 9187 times)

Rassah

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^^^ That. It takes 10 to 20 minutes for a signal to go from earth to Mars. It takes 10 minutes on average to mine a block. This means unless earth and mars take turns mining a block, each waiting for the other to finish, they will each be in a permanent state of forking each other (each will take 10 minutes to mine it's own block, only to receive a competing block from the other planet 5 minutes later). I guess the dispute could get settled with whoever mines the highest difficulty block, but it would make confirmations and mining rewards way too chaotic.

Edit:

Quote from: Three-Phase

Plus you also need to be able to check for and correct any transmission errors.

Oh god, I forgot about this. That likely blocks any chance of using Bitcoin between two planets with anything other than sending it at a few batches at a time over a span of a few hours. Send with error checks, receive confirmation, re-send whatever was errored, wait for block confirmation, and receive confirmation of the block could take as long as 20+20+20+10+20=90 minutes. Just for one Bitcoin transaction.

MatthewLM

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The latency between Earth and Mars would be a few minutes to over 20 minutes and communications would probably come at a premium. You are better off having a separate block-chain and call it MarsCoin or something.

grondilu

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1080

Quote from: Rassah on November 24, 2012, 09:40:51 AM

I'm of the "continued self-guided human evolution through technology" camp, as opposed to "we're all going to die through a Terminator scenario" camp. Though I guess we won't really be the same humans once that all happens.

That's what I meant. Humans as an organic species will probably disappear but human culture will survive through the machines and AI it will have created. Transition will happen more or less peacefully, not in a man-vs-machine war.

grondilu

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Quote from: Rassah on November 24, 2012, 12:40:11 PM

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 05:19:14 PM

Quote from: Herodes on November 23, 2012, 05:14:46 PM

so we could inhabitate other planets later on.

There are no other planets. And extra-solar is just too far away.

Venus, Mercury, plenty of very large moons.

I obviously meant "no other planets we might consider colonizing"

grondilu

legendary

Activity: 1288

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Quote from: Rassah on November 24, 2012, 11:28:48 AM

since it will be impossible to mine the same blockchain on both Earth and Mars,

I'm not sure it's so obvious.

Light takes a few minutes to travel from mars to earth. It's the same order of magnitude than the target delay between bitcoin blocks. Does that mean earth and mars could not mine the same blockchain? Not so sure.

Time delay would not be an issue for each planet, providing they don't wait for confirmation from one another before starting mining the new block found locally. And that's pretty much how the current protocol already work, isn't?

Surely it would increase the amount of chain forking, and it might take more time for them to resolve, but nothing would be very different from how bitcoin currently works.

Well, I think so anyway.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 05:19:14 PM

Quote from: Herodes on November 23, 2012, 05:14:46 PM

so we could inhabitate other planets later on.

There are no other planets. And extra-solar is just too far away.

Venus, Mercury, plenty of very large moons.

justusranvier

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on November 23, 2012, 05:40:25 PM

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 05:19:14 PM

Quote from: Herodes on November 23, 2012, 05:14:46 PM

so we could inhabitate other planets later on.

There are no other planets. And extra-solar is just too far away.

... with the currently known physics.

Not really. Extrasolar planets are accessible for colonization with 1960s technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29#Interstellar_missions

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

On a serious note, though, since it will be impossible to mine the same blockchain on both Earth and Mars, the only two options would be to either keep Earth as the central mining point, and let Mars deal with the huge latency of broadcasting and confirming transactions (which people there really won't like), or fork their own local chain. The same would happen if Bitcoin got stuck behind some country's firewall. Anyone know how something like that would work? I figure it would be similar to trying to bootstrap another Bitcoin from scratch, including setting up its own miners. Would that even be possible any more?

Herodes

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: BlackBison on November 24, 2012, 10:40:15 AM

Whenever I see these threads I always think of this for some reason:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=intergalactic#/watch?v=Nrbc_0Pf10Q

Grin

Anyone know how the general population ever responded to the following claims, before they were ever done?

- It is possible to fly an airplane with many people accross the atlantic sea!
- It is possible to see live images of what's happening on another continent.
- It's possible to land a man on the moon!

The people who made things possible, were those who believed, the visionaries. Some would've called them dreamers.

It's in human nature to not believe anything until it's actually happened. Humans are exploring space, and this will escalate in the future.

BlackBison

sr. member

Activity: 250

Merit: 250

Whenever I see these threads I always think of this for some reason:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=intergalactic#/watch?v=Nrbc_0Pf10Q

Grin

Gabi

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1008

If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote

Also, space is cold! Your cooling problems are solved.

This is so retarded. Who is the idiot who posted that?

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 04:51:23 PM

Earth will stay inhabitable for about five hundred million years. That's a lot. IMHO, humanity as we know it will almost certainly NOT exist in ten thousand years. Or if it still exists, it won't matter much because it won't be the most intelligent life form anymore. Humans will be over-powered by machines, who might just keep them as pets or something. And for a machine, the concept of being "inhabitable" is much different than for a human.

I think the most likely scenario is the one that has already been happening: humans will keep using technology as a tool to improve their lives. Meaning that any advances in memory recall, AI, or communication will be used as a tool, first through devices we carry, and eventually through devices we wear, implant, and possibly even grow within us. I'm of the "continued self-guided human evolution through technology" camp, as opposed to "we're all going to die through a Terminator scenario" camp. Though I guess we won't really be the same humans once that all happens.

01BTC10

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 503

Quote from: Herodes on November 24, 2012, 06:14:39 AM

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 04:51:23 PM

So what you're saying is that robots will come self aware and develop a survival instinct?

I would be interested in your musings about how this would come to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_neural_network
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrot

Maybe someday hybrot will use human neuron to build their progeniture.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: Rassah on November 24, 2012, 12:06:40 AM

The same way NASA is able to keep a constant link with the Mars rover.

That is very different from putting "a floating exchange between earth and mars," you moron.

A "floating exchange" means an exchange between two currencies that is based on open market trading, not on one currency being pegged to the other. Just like the current BTC to USD market is a floating exchange. It doesn't mean there will be an exchange floating somewhere in space. But, of course, you didn't know that term because I'm a moron.

Quote from: chrisoya

Zero gravity means maximally efficient use of three dimensional space for GPU/ASIC/SpaceASIC installation. Also, space is cold! Your cooling problems are solved.

Aww, that's cute. I bet you also think lasers make pew-pew sounds when they are fired in space. Sorry, but from a thermodynamics point, space is actually very hot, and vacuum makes a great insulator. In fact, if you found yourself out in space, and were somehow able to survive without dying from decompression or suffocation, you would actually find space comfortably warm. After a while you will even find it very uncomfortably hot. A mining rig in space would have the same issue, getting way too hot and not having any good way of cooling itself off.

Herodes

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 04:51:23 PM

So what you're saying is that robots will come self aware and develop a survival instinct?

I would be interested in your musings about how this would come to be.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

SA troll posted

Quote

how the f would you keep the drat thing always pointing in the direction of Mars?

The same way NASA is able to keep a constant link with the Mars rover. You guys do know we have rovers on, and satellites around Mars, right? If we ("we" the human race, not "we" the bitcoiners, you idiots) do eventually get a colony established on mars, do you honestly think they won't have any communication channels with earth? Chances are there will also be a heliosynchronous satellite in orbit at a 90° offset to our planet, so that we will always have a way to send signals to whatever destination may be on the other side of the sun at the time. (I'm expecting you can figure out what heliosynchronous orbit at 90 degree offset means)

P. S. Please keep the "I don't understand any of this basic financial, technological, and astronomical stuff... you must be the idiot, herp-derp-lol" stuff coming. It's rather amusing.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: grondilu on November 23, 2012, 06:12:12 PM

Quote from: Rassah on November 23, 2012, 06:08:02 PM

Sounds far fetched, but Virgin and other companies are seriously looking into mining in space already.

Indeed they are looking into it, but honestly I don't understand why. If you really want to mine stuff, I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper to mine sea floor than asteroids.

There are indications that some of the deposits of the minerals on the asteroids are pure (due to their particular pressure/temperature/gravity histories) ... i.e. zero refining costs ... basically you just have to go up there, pick it up and bring it back.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote

Rassah, if you are somehow reading this, pray tell how do you put an exchange between Earth and Mars? You have two planets in an elliptical orbit, unless you want to put the exchange on the sun.

First of all, you can take a private key with you wherever you go; it doesn't need to be plugged into the network to store value. The network is only needed to verify that it still has coins (that's why brain wallets are possible). And second, it doesn't matter how long it takes to transmit a signed transaction. As long as my Earth-Bitcoin transaction is transferred from earth to mars, and gets accepted by Earth miners, it will work. Latency is only a problem for transmitting mined blocks, not transactions. It will take a very long time to verify, of course (15min to transmit to earth, 10 to put in a block, 15 more to send confirmation back to mars). As for the rest, it'll work same as currency exchanges between countries here on earth, where one exchange is in one country (planet), and the other in another country (planet). Nothing has to be between. People flying from New York to London don't land in Iceland to exchange GPB for USD.
Yes, once in a while, when the planets are on opposite sides, the sun will be a problem. Maybe by then we'll have relay satellites. Or maybe we'll all be dead before any of this happens, anyway.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

BTW, the SA retard above thinks that
"perhaps there's already other civilizations that have created interplanetary communication technologies, perhaps we one day will get in touch with them, and start using their technology"
is the same thing as
"They're discussing the possibilities of trading bitcoin with alien species to buy their technology."
Holy crap you are stretching Roll Eyes

Besides, the right thing to say would've been "It's much more likely that advanced alien tech would have ways of breaking SHA-256, making bitcoins useless, rather than provide improved communication tech." As I said, no imagination whatsoever.

TheBible

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 100

Quote from: Herodes on November 23, 2012, 04:25:59 PM

It's said that bitcoin people think outside the box, now, imagine in the future, do you think that there will be possible to move anything (including radio signals) faster than the speed of light?

Alcubierre’s idea: bending space-time in front of and behind a vessel rather than attempting to propel the vessel itself at light-speeds.

Read more: http://techland.time.com/2012/09/19/nasa-actually-working-on-faster-than-light-warp-drive/#ixzz2D5DLGgFT

So, the universe is wast, perhaps there's already other civilizations that have created interplanetary communication technologies, perhaps we one day will get in touch with them, and start using their technology ?

Also, one day, our sun will stop shining, and by that time, if mankind is not extinkt, we would need to find somewhere else to live, and it would be logical to think that we would need to inhabitate more than one planet on our quest to inhabitate the universe. :p

Also, it's not unthinkable that in say a couple of hundred years from now, maybe before that we have bases with people living on mars, the moon and so on. In the future, there will probably be astronauts that will be willing to dedicate their entire life for space exploration, it is also possible to imagine that a giant self sustainable space station would travel through space, while hosting a complete and sustainable eco-system for hundreds or thousands of years until it finds an inhabitable planet.

Use your imagination people!

You should probably focus on being able to spend bitcoins on Earth before setting your sights on space aliens. Also, I bet they'd already have a currency that doesn't take 30 minutes to complete transactions with and is probably accepted by most of their society.