Topic: A new better bitcoin - capital coin - page 3. (Read 3964 times)

Bitcoin and a collectible watch are two very different items. There is no liquid market for a collectible watch, nor is there any use for it other then to use it to tell time.

The only reason anything has any value is because the market gives it value. There is nothing about gold that makes people want to buy it for as much as the price of gold is. The same is true for any other currency.

#2 Suppose Bitcoin was backed by Coca-Cola Stock.   $6 billion of stock, would generate $187 million in dividends alone annually.   Imagine if some blind entity to bitcoin was buying $187 million of bitcoin and destroying them, every year as long as coca-cola exists.  Suppose this was another group and a blackbox not tied to the Bitcoin foundation.  As a bitcoin owner which would you rather own:

Bitcoin #1 backed by nothing zero inflation.
Bitcoin #2 with the blackbox destroying $187 million, presently about 0.4 million coins a year.

That's what a capital or business coin offers.  Now transaction fees might have to be higher to offer protection as there would be no money printing.  One thing I notice about AZO stock above, it has yet to have a losing year this century.

Bitcoin
2013 $757
2012 $14
2011 $4.7
2010 $.30

You're not so much outlining "Why Bitcoin Will Fail" so much as you're outlining how another similar (potential) currency could (potentially) outcompete Bitcoin. As you should realize from every other post in this thread, being a naysayer is not productive and not well received. Please don't take my use of the qualifier 'potential' personally, as your currency does not exist and therefore has only a potential existence.



What you're suggesting seems to come in two parts: 1) Capital assets backing a virtual currency 2) and a high(er) level of deflation.

1) Capital assets backing virtual currencies: http://bitshares.org/
Why purchase existing capital assets when new capital assets can be created via blockchain-specific IPO?

2) Deflation is an interesting subject. I think you would be hard-pressed to come up with a mechanism to initiate a decentralized capital coin buyback--centralization would likely be a negative towards such a coin's use. Generally speaking Bitcoin (and likewise various altcoins) are immune from the traditional drawbacks associated with deflation, so I can't help but view deflation rates as arbitrary assuming a constant rate > 0% is possible in BTC. The only decentralized method I can think of is destroying a portion of transaction fees until a fixed percentage of deflation is reached, but that would leave miners and therefore transacting itself vulnerable under the assumption that a certain amount of IRL capital needs to be dedicated to mining in order to secure a certain market cap.

I.E. When anyone can join in mining, obtaining 51% from a starting point of X processing power must not be economically feasible in order for the blockchain to be secure at Y valuation.

Yes, but it is vulnerable.  Nobody knows what a collectible is worth tomorrow.  How much are you willing to pay for a bitcoin?  What if at the end of the year bitcoin is worth $100, will you buy more?  If bitcoin was backed by $500 of Coca Cola, it would never get to $100.

gold is wealth, not capital (Henry Georges Definition).  Capital is wealth used to make more wealth.  gold has value, no doubt, and it is getting harder and harder to find it at least on earth.  gold is a great wealth preserver.  When the hamster gets off there is something there.  

What if bitcoin owned 10 million shares of AZO, that would be about $5 billion.  Suppose every year, bitcoin sold 10% of its shares a year and used that to delete Bitcoin.  Would that not be considered a bonus.  Not only do you own bitcoin, you own a productive asset too.

I renamed the title, it was too harsh.

I find it boring that every week, there's a new guy starting a topic to explain that BTC is doomed, but I see that BTC is still standing.
I bet BTC will still exist next week!

I thought I would show how the coin works.  Suppose you want to invest in strip clubs or a bowling alleys.  Call the Capcoin Bowling Alley Coin.  Similar to a crowd funding site, suppose you want the coin to own 3 bowling alleys and they cost $1 million each, so you need $3 million.  but you want to make them state of the art so you want $2 million for improvements.  Thus a $5 million goal.  The money goes into a fund and a bowling alley committee is set-up.  Anyone preferably someone poor without a degree or experience would get elected.

Thus you set a goal of 5 million coins at $1 a coin and you set up an exchange for bitcoin.  you can use btc-e or any exchange.  So the 1st day you sell $200,000, not enough to by a bowling alley, so you put the money in coca cola stock and use the dividends to buyback stock.  After a month you get a dividend and knock off some shares. Soon you get $1 million and then $1.5 million and you buy the first bowling alley.  By rules you can only be paid 10% of the coins you are buying back.  The profits of the bowling alley, hopefully 10% are plowed back into coin deletion.

This is pretty much the same argument people make against gold, it has no productive value. 

You also have to be careful about making comparisons with stock prices as you have to consider the number of shares.  AutoZone has a market cap of 17.51 billion versus bitcoin's 6.5 billion.  So AZO is worth more than three times bitcoin.

Good Luck.

Owners of Dell and Heinz stock got the shaft by Michael Dell and Warren Buffet.  The U.S. stock market is a corrupt as hell, the CEO in bed with the large shareholders really control and own the company. The majority shareholders wanted the productive assets for themselves.  The assets of a capcoin, will be owned by the capcoin.  The minority shareholder will have rights. Similar to the Bitcoin foundation, anyone whether or not they own the coin can be a board member.  What I see is the coin divided into 10 money managers, the money manger who bought back the least amount of coins is out and replaced every year.  

The capcoin would not own any gold type assets, there would be a paper trail and long jailtime for any money manager not up to fiduciary responsibility.

For the Iowa Farmland Coin, the land would be owned by the coin.  You could steal the corn or the $270 an acre rent but the money manager most likely would have poor performance an be out next year.   It would be hard to steal the $270 an acre rent as there would be a paper trail.

We should really start archiving all these bitcoin fail threads for future entertainment purposes.

The problem is even though bitcoin might have 0% inflation, -10% inflation is better. The U.S. dollar has +6% inflation.  Bitcoin is backed like the U.S. dollar.  As long as bitcoin is the world reserve cryptocurrency it will be in the same position as the dollar, it will fail tomorrow, it will fail tomorrow, 100 years from now, it will fail tomorrow.

What you have here is stock market 2.0 and darkcoin combined, where anyone can ipo a stock based on a dream.

Although gold is wealth and an asset, it does not produce wealth thus if you use it to buy back a capcoin, you are going to lose some of your gold.  A good money manager can use gold as a hedge buying it like in 2000.

bitcoin has no productive asset. It is only a collectible. Fortunately it can be used for gambling thus it will be really hard for it not to have some value. If you get 1 million users the price may actually increase, but all this is unknown.

Imagine a capcoin with 21 million outstanding, $500 in value, or $10,500,000,000 in market cap. If that were invested in productive assets, the coin could knock out 2 million coins or 10% of the coins a year. Furthermore there would be a constant grinding away and deletion of the coin. There would by a constant buyer of the coin. Since the coin is infinitely divideable no worry about running out of coins.

capcoin would be identical to bitcoin in virtually everyway, most would not know the difference. capcoin would be capital based, while bitcoin is collectible based. Unlike a stock anyone can vote for board members of capcoin, majority does not rule. You do not even have to a be a owner only a good capitalist. They are subject to fiduciary responsiblity and repurchase requirements.

http://www.panarchy.org/george/capital.html

Basically we have the combination of a stock market and a darkcoin. I noticed another thread some girl wants a $15,000 loan. This actually could be possible in a capcoin.

Your argument that bitcoin can't work because it is not backed by anything is an old one. The first one really.  But there is an implied premise that backing is needed. Look at shiny rocks. Shiny rocks have been a store of wealth for thousands of years. Why? Gold is simply thought of as expensive. There is no real reason to think gold has value other than tradition. All you need to have a currency is that it is unprofitable to counterfeit, and people believe it is valuable. Money is nothing more than a social contract.
I'll stick with bitcoin only. It's the coin I will be using for the rest of my life.  I have only seen pain and poverty from alts.

Bitcoin can surely be used as a asset or say Internet Gold.But I too think bitcoin as a currency is a thing to fail for sure.After all at the end bitcoin doesn't exists if Fiats doesn't.No mater how long you argue the answer is just few lines."Bitcoin came out of nowhere and will vanish alike".

I find your post very interesting and I share everything except that Bitocoin is going to die. I think BTC is going to have an evolution and a 2.0 Version of the same is going to take place.

Before even bothering to go through the rest, who is holding the "backings."  Some jerkoff is going to rob fort knox or take over Iowa and then out of the good nature of his heart distribute a bunch of coins that is somehow going to replace fiat?  WTF

What happens when the good natured Iowa warlord gets robbed, who is backing these coins then? 


Force is something. You can have all the btc in the world, and if every country in the world decided that they will hang anyone who uses btc for anything, well your fucked.  The mathematical certainty of being hung (hanged lol?) is more compelling.   

Bitcoin is backed by mathematical certainty. FIAT is backed by nothing. Don't confuse backed by forced upon us with weapons (army and power).

You claim Bitcoin is backed by nothing is that is completely false.  Bitcoin is backed buy the users of the system, trust and the innovation of the system itself.  So your first sentence is completely false and you're following comments automatically lose credibility in my opinion.  Hopefully you take the time to explain why it has been so successful over the years?

Isn't this just the oft-repeated intrinsic value myth, rephrased in a confusing way?

Bitcoin (and equivalently, gold) will fail when human civilization fails. There are enough incentives in place to prevent it from happening earlier. Mind you, this might be sooner rather than later.