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Topic: A Public Plea to Bitcoin Developers and Supporters alike - page 6. (Read 10863 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
So smart to see so little. How are changes to the protocol made? They are voted on by the miners. It only takes a few THash miners to drive the difficulty so high everybody else gets squeezed out. So when a few control a majority of the network, it will be they that decide what BIPs get approved or not.  And when those few miners decide they want 3% of every transaction there won't be a damn thing you can do about it. So much for a decentralized currency. This was your last chance to keep Bitcoin in the hands of the people, because once those ASICs start rolling out it will be too late. Hopefully Bitcoin 2.0 will address this issue (amongst others).

I really can't imagine a scenario or fix where miners with more resources don't have more advantage over "the people". Just kinda how these things work. People with access to dozens of GPUs are going to dominate miners with a dual-core CPU.  Eventually difficulty will increase and payouts decrease that only a handful of people will be able to mine successfully even WITHOUT ASIC coming into being.


Also, there's something funny about people arguing that bitcoin should be changed to keep some people out for the sake of "the people".  

And that said, BFL does look like a whole lotta vapor ware to me anyways.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
You're fat, because you dont have any pics on FB
I agree, BFL is spreading FUD..

And this wont be for quite a while I presume..  Well after the reward halving.

And then, when they ship the first one..  they wont have enough to go around..

Just look at how pathetic they are handling the FPGA's, which are easily obtained.

Their stats, and prices is just FUD, a game to stop other companies starting up.. 


So yes, they are being stupid, and killing the spirit somewhat..


Im not a fan of how they do biz..   They have a lot to learn..   And customer service has to exist eventually..

Because at this point, the FPGA's were a scam..   how many are out in the wild?   100-250 ?  whoop dee doo


hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
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The whole BFL announcement is currently a whole lot of nothing. Nothing. There were many parts that didn't make any sense either, the electricity efficiency is off the scale and the pricing is ridiculously low. I wouldn't even THINK about this before there is something more solid let alone wonder into any conclusions about the consequences. There are no consequences right now because there is nothing.

I have to agree, that BFL announcement seems to be a tad too optimistic. Unless they got 30+ million USD venture funding, which seems to be rather improbable.

full member
Activity: 153
Merit: 100
So smart to see so little. How are changes to the protocol made? They are voted on by the miners. It only takes a few THash miners to drive the difficulty so high everybody else gets squeezed out. So when a few control a majority of the network, it will be they that decide what BIPs get approved or not.  And when those few miners decide they want 3% of every transaction there won't be a damn thing you can do about it. So much for a decentralized currency. This was your last chance to keep Bitcoin in the hands of the people, because once those ASICs start rolling out it will be too late. Hopefully Bitcoin 2.0 will address this issue (amongst others).
legendary
Activity: 2184
Merit: 1056
Affordable Physical Bitcoins - Denarium.com
The whole BFL announcement is currently a whole lot of nothing. Nothing. There were many parts that didn't make any sense either, the electricity efficiency is off the scale and the pricing is ridiculously low. I wouldn't even THINK about this before there is something more solid let alone wonder into any conclusions about the consequences. There are no consequences right now because there is nothing.

I would bet that if these products will even exist with those specs (which I find HIGHLY unlikely), they will not be out this year. So just chill out. However I have to say that even if everything was true and they could deliver right now, it wouldn't be the end of the world. ASIC is not a question of if, it's a question of when.

It would be insane for ASIC producers to hoard all the chips for themselves and use them on the network directly because of the trust erosion it would cause for Bitcoin. No one can be allowed to have the power of a 51% attack and any business minded entity will voluntarily skip that route. It's gargantually more profitable to sell those chips so that they're distributed. So I wouldn't really worry about this in any case.
legendary
Activity: 1304
Merit: 1015
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
DeathAndTaxes pretty much already destroyed your FUD, OP, but I do want to make two additional points:

1. Bitcoin is open source so feel free and change the algorithm yourself, anything the devs could do, you can do

2. don't pretend to be smarter than the a market regulated by strictly it's consumers (i.e. the free market) because you're not
legendary
Activity: 1304
Merit: 1015
Only until BFL develops quantum miners will I agree to algorithm changes, or if someone breaks the current algorithm.  Reminds me of the time when CPU miners were shut out due to GPU miners.  Yawn.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Killing GPU mining is probably a good step forward for BTC.

Get people to stop thinking of BTC as a chance to print their own money and make it, you know, a currency to be used and exchanged.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1003
BFL won't even start shipping for over nine months yet I reckon and then the'll be very slow coming.  They only made that announcement to suck in more FPGA sales with there buy back offer and I reckon the units they produce will actually be twice the price for half the hashing power they just announced.  I expect FPGA's bought at least in the next three months to pay them self's back with a profit yet so I'm still buying them until OpenBitASIC - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-openbitasic-the-open-source-bitcoin-asic-initiative-76351 - start tacking pre-orders.  Opensource-hardware for opensource-software all they way.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
Community as a whole is doing just fine. It is just some guys who ignored the warnings and spent too much on their brand spanking new FPGA's are begging for special treatment now. Well, tough titty, your pleas will fall on deaf ears.

WTF are you taking about retard ? I DON'T OWN FPGAs.... I own GPUs and have NO problem with them. I will also own ASICs and will have no problem spending the additional money, but when the biggest BFL proponents are left speechless after this latest 'Press Release' what should the rest of the community take away from that ?
...fucking idiot.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
u just mad cuz ur 7970s are becoming worthless for mining Grin
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
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First off, don't get me wrong. If ASICs are going to come in at the prices that BFL posted, you can bet that I will be running 1TH myself...

It's not cheap-ass sour grapes on my part. I have the cash to play...but what about the community as a whole ?

As I said....SPIRIT KILLING...the Spirit of Bitcoin.

Community as a whole is doing just fine. It is just some guys who ignored the warnings and spent too much on their brand spanking new FPGA's are begging for special treatment now. Well, tough titty, your pleas will fall on deaf ears.

Now tell me did you really think that FPGA's will last for 18-24 month?

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
So everyone is onboard for BFL's ASIC release ?

...then THAT solves that.

If the 'Fun' gets taken out of Bitcoin Mining for pure profit and who can crack 10 TH....then count me in.

I just believe that this will become a very lonely place with nothing but big spenders doing all of the mining.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
As I said....SPIRIT KILLING...the Spirit of Bitcoin.

Last post before you back on ignore.  

Bitcoin =/= mining.  

If anything way too much time/effort/resources has been spent on mining/miners/rig designs/pools/mining-distros/mining-bonds/etc and not enough on END USER PRODUCTS AND SERVICES.  That isn't an attack or slam it is logical that mining would form the initial core but at some point Bitcoin needs to expand beyond that.

Bitcoin =/= mining

Bitcoin =/= mining

Bitcoin =/= mining

Stop mining (when you are forced to) and take that passion and drive and build something (anything) which makes Bitcoin better.  I am no longer expanding my farm, and eventually will be forced to turn it off and guess what ... I have never been more exciting about Bitcoin. Cellcoin is a fun and exciting project.  Maybe it won't go anywhere but I am having fun USING Bitcoin to create value.

I hate to break it to you but your mom, and non techy friends, and small business owner couldn't give two rats farts about what makes Bitcoin secure.  They only care that it IS secure, has value, and they can make/save money using it.  The last element has been sorely neglected.  Be part of the solution to fix that.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
I can no longer mine Bitcoins on my computer's CPU in the background.

For this, I hold the GPU miners responsible. Please stop GPU mining.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
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Yep, and let's put Ben Bernanke in charge of timing of block subsidy as well as network difficulty selection for the next two weeks while we are at it.

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
First off, don't get me wrong. If ASICs are going to come in at the prices that BFL posted, you can bet that I will be running 1TH myself...

It's not cheap-ass sour grapes on my part. I have the cash to play...but what about the community as a whole ?

As I said....SPIRIT KILLING...the Spirit of Bitcoin.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
GPU killed the ability for users to "play" with the CPUs a long time ago.  That feature was removed from the client for a reason.  28nm FPGA would be the death blow to GPU mining anyways.  Difficulty would in time more than triple and put GPU miners under water.

Most end users are never going to build a rig.  The reality is with a simple plug and play hashing unit they might buy one and plug it into the wall.  I could see a form factor which plugs into the wall and has a single ethernet port, a reset button, and web interface.  

Still I wouldn't worry.  Given BFL inability to deliver anything on time if I was a betting man I would put the over/under line on first retail delivery being March 2013 and it likely will take 6 months before they can move enough units to kill GPU mining.  Most likely my farm will be at end of life by then anyways.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
Strange when you built your 11 GH/s of rigs that fact didn't scare you. 

It's not the same. I am running 4 rigs that use off the shelf multi-purpose desktop hardware, available to anyone....not quite the same as BFL's ASICs.

Even if I were to use FPGAs, the speeds have slowly been climbing at a REASONABLE RATE that the Bitcoin infrastructure can manage. 40 GH for $1300 ?. Everyone will suddenly be a 1TH miner using specialized equipment and those who want to 'play' using their desktop hardware won't be able to.

'Spirit' killing....
They also have great resale value should you decide to upgrade, if BFL even makes something within the next while.
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