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Topic: A public plea to SealsWithClubs - page 2. (Read 8686 times)

member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
The Village Idiot
July 10, 2012, 01:53:16 PM
#53
 Yes it could use more people. I personally got a couple people to start playing, that weren't even interested in Bitcoin itself but more for the poker aspect. 

yeah i have got a few non btc poker ppl to play. i think thats where the future lies.  what i did was front a few work buddies .25 btc worth of chips each. that gives them 5 entries into the half hour 100 bonus tournament.  even a marginal player can win/place 1 in 5 to keep afloat, there definately isn't the competition that there is for the big btc.  So far it seems to work and more ppl at work have asked for the site addy. of course those buttholes are from another shift, so they can buy their own damnd btc. 
I've done similar with my poker playing friends. If they need BTC, I'll sell it to them in cash. Grin
sr. member
Activity: 341
Merit: 250
July 10, 2012, 11:49:35 AM
#52
 Yes it could use more people. I personally got a couple people to start playing, that weren't even interested in Bitcoin itself but more for the poker aspect. 

yeah i have got a few non btc poker ppl to play. i think thats where the future lies.  what i did was front a few work buddies .25 btc worth of chips each. that gives them 5 entries into the half hour 100 bonus tournament.  even a marginal player can win/place 1 in 5 to keep afloat, there definately isn't the competition that there is for the big btc.  So far it seems to work and more ppl at work have asked for the site addy. of course those buttholes are from another shift, so they can buy their own damnd btc. 
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1014
FPV Drone Pilot
July 10, 2012, 03:23:25 AM
#51
The first person to make some bitcoin compatible software that's comparable to full-tilt/pokerstars/etc. will make a shed load of BTC.

The suggestion to get a GLBSE listing going is a good one -we could all invest and reap the rewards  Grin

Do we have enough skills in the community to pull this off and how much would it cost?


http://www.sbrforum.com/poker/software/


Apparently they want 75k for their source code.

I can make a comparable client in a month for a lot less than that using Python and PySide. That would mean cross-compatibility with other OS as well. Shit, in a few months I could probably learn enough Java to get the Python one ported over to Android. Android can already support QT interfaces (which is what PySide designs GUIs with) afaik.

Well, I'm not a designer, so maybe I'd probably need someone to draw me up mock interfaces to copy over for the GUI, but whoever is doing the web design for the current site would be a good enough candidate for that job. The client would interface with the current SealsWithClubs PokerMaven's server, so nothing on their end would even need to change.

I already sent over a proof-of-concept command line GUI for SwC to FreeMoney as I mentioned in my previous post here... Trust me, it's as simple as coding a GUI and hooking it up to that command-line backend. Coding a GUI that looks identical to PokerStars honestly can't be that hard... There's only a select few dialog-types, and each table is drawn based on a template.

This is not a 75k job. Well, unless you want to overhaul the server end as well (which seems to be working as fine as it can be...). That job would probably be best left up to a professional.

If you want a cost estimate on creating a PokerStars/FTP-like client:
For reference, I work part-time on-call for a construction company and make about 20-30k a year from it depending on how good the construction market is in California. I also go to school part-time. Employing ME for a few months would only take 5-15k. I'm sure there are better individuals cut out for the job than me. Check out outsourcing the client design to India, or get a private contractor to do it!

My guesstimate: 1k-1.5k project tops for an independent contractor who is well experienced to create the client. 3k if you want a client on iOS and Android as well.

In my head is the perfect p-2-p client server gaming product.  If there is someone that can Zuckerberg out what is in my head we will make it rain.

Seal Team 6 needs 1 or 2 more badass coders and it's on.  I just busted main event and I promise this is my main focus going forward.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
July 09, 2012, 09:17:14 PM
#50
thanks dooglus! yep i'm illpoet on seals. i keep the same username not so much bc i like it, but that way i nver forget it when i'm logging in.  seals is practically giving away bitcoins right now with all the bonus tournaments and freerolls! and i'm a total fish!

It looks like I need a new place to play poker.  Smiley  I'll see you there...
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
The Village Idiot
July 09, 2012, 08:52:29 PM
#49
The first person to make some bitcoin compatible software that's comparable to full-tilt/pokerstars/etc. will make a shed load of BTC.

The suggestion to get a GLBSE listing going is a good one -we could all invest and reap the rewards  Grin

Do we have enough skills in the community to pull this off and how much would it cost?


http://www.sbrforum.com/poker/software/


Apparently they want 75k for their source code.

I can make a comparable client in a month for a lot less than that using Python and PySide. That would mean cross-compatibility with other OS as well. Shit, in a few months I could probably learn enough Java to get the Python one ported over to Android. Android can already support QT interfaces (which is what PySide designs GUIs with) afaik.

Well, I'm not a designer, so maybe I'd probably need someone to draw me up mock interfaces to copy over for the GUI, but whoever is doing the web design for the current site would be a good enough candidate for that job. The client would interface with the current SealsWithClubs PokerMaven's server, so nothing on their end would even need to change.

I already sent over a proof-of-concept command line GUI for SwC to FreeMoney as I mentioned in my previous post here... Trust me, it's as simple as coding a GUI and hooking it up to that command-line backend. Coding a GUI that looks identical to PokerStars honestly can't be that hard... There's only a select few dialog-types, and each table is drawn based on a template.

This is not a 75k job. Well, unless you want to overhaul the server end as well (which seems to be working as fine as it can be...). That job would probably be best left up to a professional.

If you want a cost estimate on creating a PokerStars/FTP-like client:
For reference, I work part-time on-call for a construction company and make about 20-30k a year from it depending on how good the construction market is in California. I also go to school part-time. Employing ME for a few months would only take 5-15k. I'm sure there are better individuals cut out for the job than me. Check out outsourcing the client design to India, or get a private contractor to do it!

My guesstimate: 1k-1.5k project tops for an independent contractor who is well experienced to create the client. 3k if you want a client on iOS and Android as well.
sr. member
Activity: 341
Merit: 250
July 09, 2012, 08:46:01 PM
#48
thanks dooglus! yep i'm illpoet on seals. i keep the same username not so much bc i like it, but that way i nver forget it when i'm logging in.  seals is practically giving away bitcoins right now with all the bonus tournaments and freerolls! and i'm a total fish!
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
HODL OR DIE
July 09, 2012, 07:23:15 PM
#47
The first person to make some bitcoin compatible software that's comparable to full-tilt/pokerstars/etc. will make a shed load of BTC.

The suggestion to get a GLBSE listing going is a good one -we could all invest and reap the rewards  Grin

Do we have enough skills in the community to pull this off and how much would it cost?


http://www.sbrforum.com/poker/software/


Apparently they want 75k for their source code.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
July 08, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
#46
i play on seals all the time. i'm so happy to be playin poker again! i think the market for online us poker play is ready to burst, and if ppl could just see how easy btc was to turn into money and products it would be incredible.

Are you "Fart" by any chance?

He's 'illpoet' on seals.
hero member
Activity: 887
Merit: 1000
July 08, 2012, 04:57:10 PM
#45
i play on seals all the time. i'm so happy to be playin poker again! i think the market for online us poker play is ready to burst, and if ppl could just see how easy btc was to turn into money and products it would be incredible.

Are you "Fart" by any chance?

sr. member
Activity: 341
Merit: 250
July 08, 2012, 03:56:32 PM
#44
i play on seals all the time. i'm so happy to be playin poker again! i think the market for online us poker play is ready to burst, and if ppl could just see how easy btc was to turn into money and products it would be incredible.
hero member
Activity: 887
Merit: 1000
July 07, 2012, 06:27:10 PM
#43
Just wanted to say that I just joined and started playing for the first time, and I think the software is great.   Yes it could use more people. I personally got a couple people to start playing, that weren't even interested in Bitcoin itself but more for the poker aspect.  The future looks good.

I can't wait to play in the tourney tomorrow night.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1014
FPV Drone Pilot
July 07, 2012, 05:32:16 PM
#42
Wow it's great to see this thread.  For those that don't know, I've been working with Freemoney for 10 months or so trying to solve the problems that the contributors in this thread have listed.  It is not an easy fix, and trust me the dedicated group of people (Freemoney first and foremost) that work on this project constantly are working towards these goals.

BTC acceptance with the general population is on the rise.  The poker players are mostly nerds, so they will be some of the first to adopt. 

I promise the BTC community I am helping out Seals in every way I can, and that the team together shares your vision.  After the WSOP we are going to get our asses back in high gear.


IF YOU WANT TO HELP:  please sign up for our beta affiliate program:  https://sealswithclubs.eu/affiliate-area/  and msg [email protected] with questions.  We need the BTC community to help us hard-core market our site.  If you own a darknet site, plz put our links up and get your 20% shipped to your Seals acct for play or withdraw to a hash of your choosing.

FYI I play the main event day 1C on Monday / wearing my BTC button / SealswithClubs patch as always.  If you are at the WSOP and see me ask me for a seals & BTC button!  I got tons.

hero member
Activity: 530
Merit: 500
July 06, 2012, 05:43:52 PM
#41
If the site is located in a jurisdiction which does not criminalize online poker, and the operator himself doesn't live in US, would that still be risky to the site operator?

Yes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17355203

hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
July 05, 2012, 09:18:29 AM
#40
So it's worth asking: If there's this virgin market for American poker players, why is it that PokerStars and Party Poker and Playtech and Microgaming haven't opened up Bitcoin deposits to Americans? In a word: It's probably illegal.

Is it worldwide illegal? If an American goes to a coffee shop in Netherlands and buy weed, nobody's going to get prosecuted.
If the site is located in a jurisdiction which does not criminalize online poker, and the operator himself doesn't live in US, would that still be risky to the site operator?
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
July 05, 2012, 07:21:35 AM
#39
All of those games have chance. Swing at the monster.... miss. Swing at the monster... hit! Monster drops.... a dry bone or a dirty rag or a pile of gold!
Good point.
The government goes after what the people in government want to go after.
Or what the multi-billion-dollar Vegas lobby tells them to go after. I'm not even sure they're aware that you can make money playing Diablo. And then again, they might just attack Bitcoin virtual worlds from a completely different angle, not trying to prosecute them on gambling grounds, but going after them as potential money-laundering hubs instead. The FBI made a reference to that in their leaked Bitcoin report. Since they can't control the payment processors and force AML/KYC that way, they might decide to go after any site that facilitates the exchange of BTC between its users. But that's a much bigger process and one that concerns the whole Bitcoin community. The narrow gambling issue makes an easier target.

If you start from the assumption that the government's just doing Vegas's dirty work, and that the idea is to shut down any possible competition and starve the market before Caesar's Palace Online launches in the US with some kind of ludicrous 15% poker rake, then pretty much anything goes.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
July 04, 2012, 10:23:40 PM
#38
All of those games have chance. Swing at the monster.... miss. Swing at the monster... hit! Monster drops.... a dry bone or a dirty rag or a pile of gold!

The government goes after what the people in government want to go after.
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
July 04, 2012, 09:00:46 AM
#37
Okay here's a question that's pretty off-topic but still related to the concept. In Diablo 3 where they have the real money auction house that allows you to sell and buy gold for real money. Aren't they technically making their own currency and therefore should be illegal?

Buying and selling virtual goods like WoW gold or Bitcoin isn't illegal in and of itself, and doesn't have any relationship to gambling laws unless there's an element of chance. No government in the world views them as currencies; but they don't have to be currencies in order to be a form of "consideration" or "reward". It's equally illegal to gamble for amazon store credit, Thai Baht, or shoelaces. If there was a game of chance in Diablo where you could risk your gold, with a prospect of winning more gold from the house or from another player, and an element of chance was involved, then it would be tough to argue that they weren't running an illegal online casino.

It's the combination of consideration + chance + reward that makes it illegal. It's not illegal to operate a golf tournament, a poetry contest or a bowling league. An online chess site for Bitcoin would be legal. There are Gin Rummy sites that operate legally in the US for real money, because there's no element of chance in Rummy. All these things take out the element of chance. It's also not illegal to run a poker site with valuable prizes, and make money off of advertising, as long as people can't pay money into it to increase their chances of winning (flat-rate subscription poker sites are a very fuzzy legal gray area and might be legal) - this way you remove the consideration. And it's not illegal if you remove the reward, like Zynga, and take money for poker but don't offer any way to cash out winnings.

Linden Labs faced exactly this situation and had two realistic choices... they could shut down all the in-world slot machines and casinos, or they could prevent people from changing Linden Dollars back into USD. They chose to shut down all the in-world games that had an element of chance.

The PPA argument goes that poker gets around the chance element by being a game of skill over the long term. Unfortunately though, that's not the view of the US Government (yet).
full member
Activity: 736
Merit: 100
Adoption Blockchain e-Commerce to World
July 03, 2012, 08:57:52 PM
#36
ssaCEO, I don't disagree with what you've said, but here's the thing:

They can't make a bitcoin poker site illegal unless they make "free" poker sites illegal as well.  To do that, they would have to legitimize BTC as a valid currency and as "real" money.  That's the last thing they want to do... so a BTC poker site would be tough to shut down on those grounds, simply because it would open a different can of worms that no one in the current financial industry wants opened.


The government doesn't make the case that Zynga credits are a form of currency, but Zynga would be violating state and federal law if they allowed a market to evolve in which their credits were traded out for money.


Okay here's a question that's pretty off-topic but still related to the concept. In Diablo 3 where they have the real money auction house that allows you to sell and buy gold for real money. Aren't they technically making their own currency and therefore should be illegal?
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
The Village Idiot
July 02, 2012, 02:15:05 AM
#35
It's still in plaintext like you said, EXCEPT for the hole cards, which are now hashed with sha256 using the private session key the server gives out at the start of the connection. Was very easy to figure out what the client was doing though. As I mentioned, this was implemented with the last client update they did back when I was actively playing.

So how does the client know what its cards are if they are sha256 hashed with the session key.  sha256 is a one-way hash.  Does it have to brute-force them?  Seems unlikely, especially for omaha where you have 4 cards, not just 2.

Uhhh... Give me a second, I'll give you an example... Maybe I mis-phrased the way I said it uses sha256?

So the new version of PokerMavens sends your hole cards in a command packet called "ECards". The flash client knows then it must decode the values it receives before displaying them. An example would be I am dealt ECards Card1=7A, Card2=71, Card3=99, Card4=1E, Salt=<16 char hex string>. Those card values are garbage, because they're hashed. For the client to really know what those garbage cards are, it needs to also know the private sessionkey, which is a 20 character hex string established at the beginning of the session.

So without revealing the entire method, the client somehow uses a combination of the sessionKey and Salt together, which it then uses portions of that combination against the garbage card values in a mathematical algorithm, which results in the proper number. Each of these steps may or may not involve an sha256 method that is called (I can't reveal everything!).

For this example (and I didn't give you the Salt or SessionKey so revealing the answer does not reveal the method): The proper numbers would be 48 (Ks) and 14 (5d). Since I was playing Hold'em at the time, Card3 and Card4 either evaluate to 0 or some value greater than 53, which would be a garbage number that the client knows to discard and treat as 0. Valid card values are 1-52, each corresponding to a different facecard.

P.S.: FreeMoney has my sourcecode. Smiley If he gets a good, experienced programmer on board I honestly believe he could have a decent cross-platform desktop Python client that is close to PokerStars pretty damn quickly. I say this because I do not code as a profession and I learned Python about a month before I started working on the Python SwC client for the 2 weeks or so. If I was a professional coder, I imagine I would have done all this work much faster and more efficiently.

That's if the programmer doesn't want to port it to a better language, which I would highly recommend. Especially one that would port relatively easily to Android/iOS (like Java or C++).

It cannot be understated how "dumb" of a client it actually can be, since the server does so much of the heavy lifting. The server tells the client when to play a sound, when to do the deal animation, etc. The client is basically a rendered table that draws stuff on command, shows buttons on command and lets the server know when/which of the buttons are pressed and what values were typed on the screen at the time of press.
sr. member
Activity: 423
Merit: 250
July 02, 2012, 01:50:18 AM
#34
http://www.pokerth.net/
Pretty well poker client under GPL, with Android, Windows, GNU/Linux and MacOS X clients.
Why no one can just take this client and add bitcoin-related features to it? It will rock then.
And I dreaming about times, when I will be able to play poker, with bitcoins, with thousands players on the server, and without a rake (or with 0.5%).
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