A spam attack can easily destroy the new Viabtc BCH chain

winterland

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Quote from: ebliever on July 30, 2017, 08:02:49 PM

Shhh... I thought about this, and how funny it would be if someone spammed their chain to fill the 8 MB blocks just to show the futility of a big-block based scaling solution.

I don't expect BCH to survive very long one way or another. Between poor, rushed coding, vulnerability to mining reorgs by a hostile miner, spam attacks, relentless dumping from BTC supporters, risk of replay attacks if not handled well, and risk of malware splitting tools it's just a question of what will do it in first.

This show us that to create something like bitcoin you need a lot more than just hash power you need the confidence and the trust of the people something this fork does not have and by the looks of it, it is never going to have.

Priceslide

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Hello

Quote from: fisheater on July 31, 2017, 11:57:41 PM

That same strategy can probably destroy all the altcoins, as none has the same hashpower as bitcoin.

Uhh.. no.. that's why the other altcoins use different mining/staking algorithms than BTC.

fisheater

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That same strategy can probably destroy all the altcoins, as none has the same hashpower as bitcoin.

MAbtc

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2017, 11:41:27 PM

BCH chain will have a small hash rate? I thought the powers of Jihan Wu and some of the other Chinese miners are riding under his banner in support of the fork?

Miners have largely kept their options open regarding explicit plans to mine the Bitcoin Cash chain. Naturally, it makes sense for miners to watch market reaction on the exchanges before taking the risk of pointing much hash power at BCC. Given all of Jihan Wu's past rhetoric, though, I imagine Bitmain will allocate some portion of its hash power to BCC. This could potentially create a feedback loop which supports the BCC price and causes other miners to defect.

I certainly don't see BCC overtaking BTC, but I'm not as confident as most people are that it will be worthless and irrelevant. If nothing else, as the OP points out, it will be nice to see the potential flaws of big blocks and dynamic block size front and center.

iamTom123

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Quote from: ebliever on July 30, 2017, 08:02:49 PM

Shhh... I thought about this, and how funny it would be if someone spammed their chain to fill the 8 MB blocks just to show the futility of a big-block based scaling solution.

I don't expect BCH to survive very long one way or another. Between poor, rushed coding, vulnerability to mining reorgs by a hostile miner, spam attacks, relentless dumping from BTC supporters, risk of replay attacks if not handled well, and risk of malware splitting tools it's just a question of what will do it in first.

Ok...we will just be silent about this since I would also have my share of BitcoinCash (BCH) soon in Bittrex if things would happen the way they planned it to be. Having said that, I am sure that BCH will have some problems soon that just like Bitcoin it would be subject to some challenges and for it to really survive people behind BCH have to prepare for the coming road ahead...it would be a long and winding road for them.

Still, I wish the people manning BCH all the luck and vigor they need to keep the new altcoin afloat and make it another successful one in the roster of Litecoin, Ethereum, ETC, Monera and others in the top 10 cryptocurrency market. I am happy now that it has been show that all of these drama, accusations, counter-accusations, lies, half-lies, half-truths and everything in between never affected Bitcoin that much...as it is now standing tall and proud.

iram1011

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 31, 2017, 10:30:53 PM

Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on July 30, 2017, 11:45:37 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2017, 11:41:27 PM

BCH chain will have a small hash rate? I thought the powers of Jihan Wu and some of the other Chinese miners are riding under his banner in support of the fork?

But it will be way lower than what BTC segwit will have after the split. BTC supporters can easily attack this minor chain and like OP have speculated BCC might struggle to survive from spam attacks.

Why would the Bitcoin supporters attack the BCH chain if it is better for them to leave it alone and hold or sell their free BCH coins? I believe this is where game theory applies. What is more profitable for you and the everyone else, to spam and attack BCH or leave it be and let them develop on their own?

The thing is there are many people who are wary of BCH. Within some days the price might go to cents. So it would be possible that someone tries to spam the chain out of fun or out of hatered.

pooya87

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Quote from: Pe4kin on July 31, 2017, 02:12:35 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 31, 2017, 01:20:08 AM

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2017, 12:58:24 AM

Quote from: chek2fire on July 30, 2017, 07:58:28 PM

I just think that a spam transaction attack can easily destroy Viabtc BCH chain. The reason is that this chain will have a very small hashrate, it need many days for the difficulty correction and until then their chain will be stuck.
A malicious person can begin to spam attack this chain and fill the mempool with a huge amount of transaction.
This will be a disaster cocktail and i dont think this small chain can handle the amount of work that need to clear the mempool.

A spam attack would only raise the transaction fees. It wouldn't prevent a transaction with a high enough fee from being confirmed.

it is not about confirming transactions with high fees. it is about attacking the network. and effects of a spam attack is far more than just increasing the fees.
and during the initial stage that there are a lot of transactions and a long time between each blocks spamming is easy. it can easily be increased to 200,000-500,000 unconfirmed transactions with very low cost. and how long before nodes stop functioning and how long before they implement the same fee policy as core (the same thing they were crying about)!

Exactly the same can be done with bitcoin! With him even easier to do. Block size less than 8 times.
Or do you think that will only attack you one?
And no one to apply retaliatory measures will not?
Bitcoin such a war will harm only.

i didn't say it won't happen on bitcoin. the spam attack can happen and is happening against bitcoin. and it can happen on any other altcoin too.
it is about the effects that a spam attack can have on different cryptocurrency networks. for example a couple of weeks ago a simple surge of transactions (not a spam attack!) crippled ethereum network.

with bitcoin and the limited block size, a spam attack will increase the fee and the spammers will be forced to pay more and more if they want to continue disturbing the network. so it will become costly and it happens fast.

with BCC with a big block (Bitcoin Unlimited) the spam will be a lot cheaper to perform and because of lack of fee mechanism it will stay lower. in the end the effects such spam attack have on BCC can be prolonged a lot more than it can be prolonged on bitcoin and the damage will me more severe.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on July 30, 2017, 11:45:37 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2017, 11:41:27 PM

BCH chain will have a small hash rate? I thought the powers of Jihan Wu and some of the other Chinese miners are riding under his banner in support of the fork?

But it will be way lower than what BTC segwit will have after the split. BTC supporters can easily attack this minor chain and like OP have speculated BCC might struggle to survive from spam attacks.

Why would the Bitcoin supporters attack the BCH chain if it is better for them to leave it alone and hold or sell their free BCH coins? I believe this is where game theory applies. What is more profitable for you and the everyone else, to spam and attack BCH or leave it be and let them develop on their own?

Xavofat

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Did you see that ludicrous display last night?

In case you're forgetting, BITMAIN's hashrate is going to stay on the New York agreement, and not switch to BCH. If the price of BCH rises high, it could take a while for miners to adapt to the price and start directing some hashrate at BCH.

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2017, 03:22:51 AM

A spam attack on the network will not affect me because I will ensure that each of my transactions will be confirmed in the next block or two by paying a sufficient fee.

If the network is constantly full, users would have to compete with fees in order to get space in the block, just like they were doing on the original BTC during the recent spam attacks. The fees can always spiral higher if the attacker is persistent.

JorisK

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I don't like BCH at all, but destroying something should not be our way.

Leave it to the market.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 31, 2017, 01:20:08 AM

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2017, 12:58:24 AM

Quote from: chek2fire on July 30, 2017, 07:58:28 PM

I just think that a spam transaction attack can easily destroy Viabtc BCH chain. The reason is that this chain will have a very small hashrate, it need many days for the difficulty correction and until then their chain will be stuck.
A malicious person can begin to spam attack this chain and fill the mempool with a huge amount of transaction.
This will be a disaster cocktail and i dont think this small chain can handle the amount of work that need to clear the mempool.

A spam attack would only raise the transaction fees. It wouldn't prevent a transaction with a high enough fee from being confirmed.

it is not about confirming transactions with high fees. it is about attacking the network. and effects of a spam attack is far more than just increasing the fees.
and during the initial stage that there are a lot of transactions and a long time between each blocks spamming is easy. it can easily be increased to 200,000-500,000 unconfirmed transactions with very low cost. and how long before nodes stop functioning and how long before they implement the same fee policy as core (the same thing they were crying about)!

A spam attack on the network will not affect me because I will ensure that each of my transactions will be confirmed in the next block or two by paying a sufficient fee.

iamnewhere

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the first "tx-spam-attack" will be the dump where everyone wants to be first to get at least some money from their free BCH - the prevention of that attack might be the lack of people willing to pay real money for an actual free coin so the amount of transactions could be limited.

Pe4kin

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 31, 2017, 01:20:08 AM

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2017, 12:58:24 AM

Quote from: chek2fire on July 30, 2017, 07:58:28 PM

I just think that a spam transaction attack can easily destroy Viabtc BCH chain. The reason is that this chain will have a very small hashrate, it need many days for the difficulty correction and until then their chain will be stuck.
A malicious person can begin to spam attack this chain and fill the mempool with a huge amount of transaction.
This will be a disaster cocktail and i dont think this small chain can handle the amount of work that need to clear the mempool.

A spam attack would only raise the transaction fees. It wouldn't prevent a transaction with a high enough fee from being confirmed.

it is not about confirming transactions with high fees. it is about attacking the network. and effects of a spam attack is far more than just increasing the fees.
and during the initial stage that there are a lot of transactions and a long time between each blocks spamming is easy. it can easily be increased to 200,000-500,000 unconfirmed transactions with very low cost. and how long before nodes stop functioning and how long before they implement the same fee policy as core (the same thing they were crying about)!

Exactly the same can be done with bitcoin! With him even easier to do. Block size less than 8 times.
Or do you think that will only attack you one?
And no one to apply retaliatory measures will not?
Bitcoin such a war will harm only.

pooya87

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Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2017, 12:58:24 AM

Quote from: chek2fire on July 30, 2017, 07:58:28 PM

I just think that a spam transaction attack can easily destroy Viabtc BCH chain. The reason is that this chain will have a very small hashrate, it need many days for the difficulty correction and until then their chain will be stuck.
A malicious person can begin to spam attack this chain and fill the mempool with a huge amount of transaction.
This will be a disaster cocktail and i dont think this small chain can handle the amount of work that need to clear the mempool.

A spam attack would only raise the transaction fees. It wouldn't prevent a transaction with a high enough fee from being confirmed.

it is not about confirming transactions with high fees. it is about attacking the network. and effects of a spam attack is far more than just increasing the fees.
and during the initial stage that there are a lot of transactions and a long time between each blocks spamming is easy. it can easily be increased to 200,000-500,000 unconfirmed transactions with very low cost. and how long before nodes stop functioning and how long before they implement the same fee policy as core (the same thing they were crying about)!

HostFat

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I support freedom of choice

Miners/pools are already NOT accepting tx with fee less than certain amount, so it will be the same for Bitcoin Cash.
Attacking the network to congest it will just cost more, much more then on the current Bitcoin with only 1 MB of block size (that it is already full)

odolvlobo

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Quote from: chek2fire on July 30, 2017, 07:58:28 PM

I just think that a spam transaction attack can easily destroy Viabtc BCH chain. The reason is that this chain will have a very small hashrate, it need many days for the difficulty correction and until then their chain will be stuck.
A malicious person can begin to spam attack this chain and fill the mempool with a huge amount of transaction.
This will be a disaster cocktail and i dont think this small chain can handle the amount of work that need to clear the mempool.

A spam attack would only raise the transaction fees. It wouldn't prevent a transaction with a high enough fee from being confirmed.

25hashcoin

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Go for it. You will just encourage a large miner to move more hashrate to it. Also, good luck with that, lmfao.

BitcoinCash = Satoshis Vision = Bitcoin

pdpanzer

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Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on July 30, 2017, 11:45:37 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2017, 11:41:27 PM

BCH chain will have a small hash rate? I thought the powers of Jihan Wu and some of the other Chinese miners are riding under his banner in support of the fork?

But it will be way lower than what BTC segwit will have after the split. BTC supporters can easily attack this minor chain and like OP have speculated BCC might struggle to survive from spam attacks.

Doesn't bitcoincash have an adaptive difficulty unlike BTC? If there is a spam attack, there will be network congestion, and there will be a huge drop in difficulty, making mining there very profitable if you point your miners to the right place. Bitmain and VIA partners have quite a bit of hash power. Actually, they may have a lot more than we think, given they also have older mining equipment that wasn't profitable right now.

I think BCC can be spam-attacked, and it may be its end. Or maybe it's the beginning of a great future? If it is established it suffered large scale spam attacks and it is able to clear them reasonably well (not perfectly, just ok), I think it will give credibility to the coin.

~Bitcoin~

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2017, 11:41:27 PM

BCH chain will have a small hash rate? I thought the powers of Jihan Wu and some of the other Chinese miners are riding under his banner in support of the fork?

But it will be way lower than what BTC segwit will have after the split. BTC supporters can easily attack this minor chain and like OP have speculated BCC might struggle to survive from spam attacks.

Wind_FURY

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BCH chain will have a small hash rate? I thought the powers of Jihan Wu and some of the other Chinese miners are riding under his banner in support of the fork?

Topic: A spam attack can easily destroy the new Viabtc BCH chain (Read 1316 times)