Topic: A treatise on privacy - page 2. (Read 627 times)
As a security and privacy enthusiast, I much appreciated your thread. Glad to know of it and welcome you to Good topics on security and privacy
Privacy is one of the most underrated feature of bitcoin.
“I don’t need privacy, I have nothing to hide”
“Blockchain is a public ledger where all the informations are completely traceable”
Those are two very wrong and “dangerous ststements”.
Also, is very common, even for experienced users, to trade privacy for some convenience, a nice and easy UX, or some unnecessary feature.
Privacy has been recently targeted by many Anti-Bitcoin actors. Every bitcoier should then know how to recognise the threat and how to defend herself.
In this two part treatise Giacomo Zucco covers a series of misconception about privacy, and how to adopt the best practices to protect it.
A Treatise On Bitcoin And Privacy Part 1: A Match Made In The Whitepaper
A Treatise On Bitcoin And Privacy Part 2: Don’t Be Misled By Red Herrings
Italian translation available here:
Un trattato su Bitcoin e la Privacy
Other “privacy related” threads of mine:
Coinbase the most anti-Bitcoin organisation. Make #DeleteCoinbase great again
Dust Attack, what it is, why it is dangerous and how to prevent falling to it
[Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna
[PAXOS+COINJOIN]Your privacy is a threat to exchange business?#deletepaxos
“I don’t need privacy, I have nothing to hide”
“Blockchain is a public ledger where all the informations are completely traceable”
Those are two very wrong and “dangerous ststements”.
Also, is very common, even for experienced users, to trade privacy for some convenience, a nice and easy UX, or some unnecessary feature.
Privacy has been recently targeted by many Anti-Bitcoin actors. Every bitcoier should then know how to recognise the threat and how to defend herself.
In this two part treatise Giacomo Zucco covers a series of misconception about privacy, and how to adopt the best practices to protect it.
A Treatise On Bitcoin And Privacy Part 1: A Match Made In The Whitepaper
Quote
How one’s focus can shift in just two weeks! While today everybody in the Bitcoin space seems more concerned with price fluctuations in response to the global financial panic (understandably so), it’s important to remember perennial issues that never go away, like the importance of maintaining your privacy when you transact in bitcoin. Throughout this month especially, we’ve been hearing reports of KYC/AML-compliant exchanges freezing user accounts due to suspected use of CoinJoin software (more on that later), followed by yet another case of a famous and respected early Bitcoin proponent promoting his new illiquid altcoin as something that “will replace Bitcoin, which isn’t private enough!”
If you want to take a short break from global pandemics, financial meltdowns and price volatility, here’s an attempt at analyzing claims, facts and context of this latest “Bitcoin drama.” To begin with, in Part 1 of this two-part series, we’ll start by looking at the fundamental relationship between Bitcoin and privacy by going back to the beginning with the whitepaper. Then, in Part 2, we’ll focus on some the ways that Bitcoin privacy is being maintained and improved upon — and strike down a few “red herrings.”
If you want to take a short break from global pandemics, financial meltdowns and price volatility, here’s an attempt at analyzing claims, facts and context of this latest “Bitcoin drama.” To begin with, in Part 1 of this two-part series, we’ll start by looking at the fundamental relationship between Bitcoin and privacy by going back to the beginning with the whitepaper. Then, in Part 2, we’ll focus on some the ways that Bitcoin privacy is being maintained and improved upon — and strike down a few “red herrings.”
A Treatise On Bitcoin And Privacy Part 2: Don’t Be Misled By Red Herrings
Quote
In Part One of this treatise, we examined the fundamental relationship between Bitcoin and privacy by going back to the beginning with the whitepaper. In spite of some excellent privacy preserving options that have been available to users since those early days, we seem to have taken a few wrong turns. But to fix it, in order to make Bitcoin’s privacy “great again,” we must be able to distinguish between real privacy and red herrings that can only lead us further off the path.
Italian translation available here:
Un trattato su Bitcoin e la Privacy
Other “privacy related” threads of mine:
Coinbase the most anti-Bitcoin organisation. Make #DeleteCoinbase great again
Dust Attack, what it is, why it is dangerous and how to prevent falling to it
[Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna
[PAXOS+COINJOIN]Your privacy is a threat to exchange business?#deletepaxos
As much as the fact that bitcoin is to an extent a private public network that is void of identity disclosure, i still think it is not private as the transactions can be disclosed but not to a particular name or identity but the wallet address or the transaction hash actually reveals the executed transactions in that particular wallet.
Don't take offense to this, but what have you done to increase adoption?
Adoption isn't going to be an individual thing nor even to say intentionally and collectively about it. Adoption isn't announced but it will creep into the system of all without announcement. It's about use, not just satisfaction. I believe that bitcoin will get to that era of everyone searching to have it .
I joined this community 4 years ago, and I don't see more merchants and services accepting Bitcoin, both locally and on the Internet.
Don't take offense to this, but what have you done to increase adoption? Have you spoken to local merchants you use about bitcoin? Have you emailed larger companies expressing your desire to pay in bitcoin? Have you sought out business which accept bitcoin and spent your money with them? I see lots of people lamenting that bitcoin adoption is not more widespread, but I see very few people doing anything about it. Merchants aren't going to start accepting bitcoin unless they know there is a demand for it.None taken.
When a thing is truly groundbreaking, people quickly adopt it on their own - in the last decade no one asked people to adopt smartphones and social media, everyone did it because they clearly saw the benefits. It didn't happen with Bitcoin, because it has some big downsides, and the benefits aren't clear to average people. Therefore, evangelism can only marginally improve adoption, just like the actual evangelic christians can't convert the rest of the world, no matter how hard they go from door to door.
I even experienced some regression, as Bitcoin services that I used got closed down and no suitable alternative emerged.
Privacy is actually the most overrated feature of Bitcoin.Bitcoin isn't private enough,that's why all the people,who have something to hide are using thirty party solutions,like Bitcoin mixers/tumblers.
Going to be improved very soon, "teleportation" of bitcoins via CoinSwap protocol (first proposed by Greg Maxwell back in 2013) is in the hands of Chris Belcher who promises it's going to be very hard ( if not impossible?) for even specialized companies to extract from blockchain the privacy related data when CoinSwap implemented.(https://www.coindesk.com/coinswap-and-the-ongoing-effort-to-make-bitcoin-privacy-invisible)
There are a continues fight against privacy from all governments, even against their own Fiat cash. People are absolutely obsessed with Bitcoin's anonymity or should I rather say pseudo anonymity, but they forget that cash is even more anonymous than Bitcoin. 
Pseudo anonymity is absolutely critical for Bitcoin, because it hides your financial information from criminals. All transactions is transparent on the Blockchain, so it puts us in danger, when those transactions can be traced back to our savings and our wealth.
Satoshi designed Bitcoin to offer pseudo anonymity to protect people's wealth. It is their own decision if they want to void that by using third party regulated services.
Pseudo anonymity is absolutely critical for Bitcoin, because it hides your financial information from criminals. All transactions is transparent on the Blockchain, so it puts us in danger, when those transactions can be traced back to our savings and our wealth.
Satoshi designed Bitcoin to offer pseudo anonymity to protect people's wealth. It is their own decision if they want to void that by using third party regulated services.
So for me, this privacy feature of bitcoin is really taking us off-track than bringing us on-track where we can see organic growth among the legal merchants and users. Really sad to see!
How exactly does it negatively impact adoption though? If merchants and users were such puritans to refuse to use Bitcoin because criminals use, they also wouldn't use cash and some of the biggest banks too. The real problems that stop adoption are giant price volatility, lack of scalability, lack of regulation, complex user experience. Besides, darknet criminals have been switching to Monero for a long time already.
I also don't understand the point.
Yes, at the very begininig Bitcoin had negative reputation because of use on dark web but I thought we got that over. Monero is number one criminal currency that is true.
But I don't think that any cryptocurrency shouldn't have negative reputation because of illegal use because this is not worse compared to fiat currencies. It sedme that everyone forgets money laundering and other criminal activities done by fiat and they don't mind using it.
I understand drug is a big market worldwide and fiat has been used since thousand years for drugs but is it really where you want bitcoin to thrive on?
Do I want bitcoin to be used to buy illegal drugs - no, not really. However, do I want people to be able to buy whatever they want without a third party telling them what they can and cannot do - absolutely. Much like the famous quote from Evelyn Hall - "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - I may disapprove of how people use bitcoin, but I would never dream of limiting their ability to do so.This illegal things would have thrived without bitcoin as well, but bitcoin (and Monero offcourse) is making it smoother for them!
There you go. Scammers, money launderers, drug dealers, etc. all existed before bitcoin did. If bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies) disappeared tomorrow, these people aren't suddenly going to become clean and go out and get jobs - the few who use bitcoin or other cryptos will just back to using cash or other fiat options as they did before. 
Makes sense, only if you want to glorify the crime!
Makes sense only if you are ready to finally admit that every technology you have ever used, every technology that makes your everyday life easier, has been used by criminals to facilitate criminal activities. Be it automobiles, telephone, telegraph, Internet or bitcoin, every such sophisticated technology was firstly adopted by criminals. If technology survives in extreme conditions and proves it is suitable for risky situations, it becomes widely adopted by everyone, not just criminals. It is inevitable process, this is how technology evolves and spreads, whether we like it or not. 
But most over-used feature of bitcoin by the scammers, money launderers, terrorists, drug dealers, arms dealers, Child pornography makers, PII sellers, contract killers etc.
A meaningless argument. Privacy is the most over-used feature of cash by the scammers, money launderers, terrorists... etc.The entire point of money is that it can be traded for goods and services. The entire point of trustless, decentralized, money is that it can be traded for any goods and services. Drugs are the second largest market in the world after food. Every fiat in existence has been used to buy drugs for thousands of years. If bitcoin couldn't be spent on drugs, then it's not really money, and it definitely isn't decentralized money.
A minority of bitcoin spending is on illegal goods and services, and of all illegal goods and services being bought, a tiny minority of them are bought with bitcoin.
Makes sense, only if you want to glorify the crime! I understand drug is a big market worldwide and fiat has been used since thousand years for drugs but is it really where you want bitcoin to thrive on? Personally, I don't! But that matters least!
I also understand the fact that bitcoin network can never be cleaned completely. It will continue to be used for darknet transactions and for various illegal things just the way fiat money were used earlier.
The only thing I want to point out that "Privacy" is a feature that is being leveraged by the criminals worldwide and darknet is one of the prime examples! This illegal things would have thrived without bitcoin as well, but bitcoin (and Monero offcourse) is making it smoother for them!
I joined this community 4 years ago, and I don't see more merchants and services accepting Bitcoin, both locally and on the Internet.
Don't take offense to this, but what have you done to increase adoption? Have you spoken to local merchants you use about bitcoin? Have you emailed larger companies expressing your desire to pay in bitcoin? Have you sought out business which accept bitcoin and spent your money with them? I see lots of people lamenting that bitcoin adoption is not more widespread, but I see very few people doing anything about it. Merchants aren't going to start accepting bitcoin unless they know there is a demand for it.there's a nice niche for these, but they are also not very reliable.
Curious as to why you think this? Perhaps you are using less reliable mixers? I have used ChipMixer extensively without ever having a single issue. 
Quote
Privacy is one of the most underrated feature of bitcoin.
But most over-used feature of bitcoin by the scammers, money launderers, terrorists, drug dealers, arms dealers, Child pornography makers, PII sellers, contract killers etc. The list is long and I can write a 1000 words article on it. Those who have no idea what I am talking about, please visit dark web once with proper precautions like VPN and you will understand! Bitcoin literally is accepted everywhere in dark web for all sorts of illegal things. Dark web will open up a whole new world of bullshits in front of you - and yes, all powered by Bitcoin!
Quote
“I don’t need privacy, I have nothing to hide”
“Blockchain is a public ledger where all the informations are completely traceable”
Those are two very wrong and “dangerous ststements”.
Also, is very common, even for experienced users, to trade privacy for some convenience, a nice and easy UX, or some unnecessary feature.
“Blockchain is a public ledger where all the informations are completely traceable”
Those are two very wrong and “dangerous ststements”.
Also, is very common, even for experienced users, to trade privacy for some convenience, a nice and easy UX, or some unnecessary feature.
Earlier also, I had a long debate with fellow forum members on similar topic. It's true that blockchain ledger is open for public and every information is traceable there. But that doesn't really matter because even if the information is available, the information owner is not known! So even if we see someone sending millions of dollars using bitcoin, we don't know who is doing that! So the information matters least unless you can link it to an owner!
I am not bitcoin puritan but I really want to see a clean bitcoin network rather than being synonymous to illegal things! Just check the number of financial frauds happened in last 3 years and see how many are connected to bitcoin. Not a good picture, really!
So for me, this privacy feature of bitcoin is really taking us off-track than bringing us on-track where we can see organic growth among the legal merchants and users. Really sad to see!
Privacy is actually the most overrated feature of Bitcoin.Bitcoin isn't private enough,that's why all the people,who have something to hide are using thirty party solutions,like Bitcoin mixers/tumblers.
Bitcoin has been used on the Darkweb,that's a fact and we can't change it.Actually,almost every altcoin can be used for darkweb transactions,but we are focusing on BTC,because it's the most popular cryptocurrency.
Achieving a scammer-free Bitcoin network is impossible.Cash is also being used by criminals,but we don't blame it for being "scammer-friendly".
I mean, yes, but not really. As soon as you transfer your funds from a recurrent wallet to a exchange they can link your address to your name and address, and if, say, the police ever asks for information about you they might have, you're done. Here's where bitcoin mixing services come into play, there's a nice niche for these, but they are also not very reliable.
Privacy is but a myth otherwise.
- Use a P2P platforms instead of centralized exchanges that asks for KYCPrivacy is but a myth otherwise.
- If you ever need to use a centralized exchange, check if they allow withdrawal for unverified accounts first
- Use services that further increases your online privacy such as VPN's and Tor
Other practices to increase your privacy:
- Maintain different wallets for storage, trading, and spending
- Use non-custodial wallets, preferably open-source
I mean, yes, but not really. As soon as you transfer your funds from a recurrent wallet to a exchange they can link your address to your name and address, and if, say, the police ever asks for information about you they might have, you're done. Here's where bitcoin mixing services come into play, there's a nice niche for these, but they are also not very reliable.
Privacy is but a myth otherwise.
Privacy is but a myth otherwise.
People need to understand this, if you link your name and address to a public address you can be traced back if there's an entity sufficiently interested in knowing who you are.
I mean, yes, but not really. As soon as you transfer your funds from a recurrent wallet to a exchange they can link your address to your name and address, and if, say, the police ever asks for information about you they might have, you're done. Here's where bitcoin mixing services come into play, there's a nice niche for these, but they are also not very reliable.
Privacy is but a myth otherwise.
Privacy is but a myth otherwise.
It shouldn't affect adoption at all. But it would be nice if there were much more legal merchants accepting bitcoin than illegal merchants. By that I don't mean the illegal merchants somehow go away, because they won't, I mean more and more legal merchants must use bitcoin as well.
A sizable percentage of bitcoin payments are to scams, giveaways and ponzis. There are also such things that take cash as payment but there are exponentially more legit merchants who take cash payments as well, and this is where bitcoin needs to get to.
A sizable percentage of bitcoin payments are to scams, giveaways and ponzis. There are also such things that take cash as payment but there are exponentially more legit merchants who take cash payments as well, and this is where bitcoin needs to get to.
Even now the criminal use if the third or the second thing that comes to minds of regular people when they hear about Bitcoin. Right now it's the most strongly being associated with volatility, and general population views it more as a risky investment rather than a currency that they would use for their day-to-day transactions because of that. Something needs to change with either the users or Bitcoin in order to see a larger adoption - maybe people have to rethink their values and the relationship they have with banks, or maybe Bitcoin has to be more stable and convenient. At this rate adoption rate is just too slow. I joined this community 4 years ago, and I don't see more merchants and services accepting Bitcoin, both locally and on the Internet.
So for me, this privacy feature of bitcoin is really taking us off-track than bringing us on-track where we can see organic growth among the legal merchants and users. Really sad to see!
How exactly does it negatively impact adoption though? If merchants and users were such puritans to refuse to use Bitcoin because criminals use, they also wouldn't use cash and some of the biggest banks too. The real problems that stop adoption are giant price volatility, lack of scalability, lack of regulation, complex user experience. Besides, darknet criminals have been switching to Monero for a long time already.
It shouldn't affect adoption at all. But it would be nice if there were much more legal merchants accepting bitcoin than illegal merchants. By that I don't mean the illegal merchants somehow go away, because they won't, I mean more and more legal merchants must use bitcoin as well.
A sizable percentage of bitcoin payments are to scams, giveaways and ponzis. There are also such things that take cash as payment but there are exponentially more legit merchants who take cash payments as well, and this is where bitcoin needs to get to.
But most over-used feature of bitcoin by the scammers, money launderers, terrorists, drug dealers, arms dealers, Child pornography makers, PII sellers, contract killers etc.
A meaningless argument. Privacy is the most over-used feature of cash by the scammers, money launderers, terrorists... etc.The entire point of money is that it can be traded for goods and services. The entire point of trustless, decentralized, money is that it can be traded for any goods and services. Drugs are the second largest market in the world after food. Every fiat in existence has been used to buy drugs for thousands of years. If bitcoin couldn't be spent on drugs, then it's not really money, and it definitely isn't decentralized money.
A minority of bitcoin spending is on illegal goods and services, and of all illegal goods and services being bought, a tiny minority of them are bought with bitcoin.
So for me, this privacy feature of bitcoin is really taking us off-track than bringing us on-track where we can see organic growth among the legal merchants and users. Really sad to see!
How exactly does it negatively impact adoption though? If merchants and users were such puritans to refuse to use Bitcoin because criminals use, they also wouldn't use cash and some of the biggest banks too. The real problems that stop adoption are giant price volatility, lack of scalability, lack of regulation, complex user experience. Besides, darknet criminals have been switching to Monero for a long time already.
Quote
Privacy is one of the most underrated feature of bitcoin.
But most over-used feature of bitcoin by the scammers, money launderers, terrorists, drug dealers, arms dealers, Child pornography makers, PII sellers, contract killers etc. The list is long and I can write a 1000 words article on it. Those who have no idea what I am talking about, please visit dark web once with proper precautions like VPN and you will understand! Bitcoin literally is accepted everywhere in dark web for all sorts of illegal things. Dark web will open up a whole new world of bullshits in front of you - and yes, all powered by Bitcoin!
Quote
“I don’t need privacy, I have nothing to hide”
“Blockchain is a public ledger where all the informations are completely traceable”
Those are two very wrong and “dangerous ststements”.
Also, is very common, even for experienced users, to trade privacy for some convenience, a nice and easy UX, or some unnecessary feature.
“Blockchain is a public ledger where all the informations are completely traceable”
Those are two very wrong and “dangerous ststements”.
Also, is very common, even for experienced users, to trade privacy for some convenience, a nice and easy UX, or some unnecessary feature.
Earlier also, I had a long debate with fellow forum members on similar topic. It's true that blockchain ledger is open for public and every information is traceable there. But that doesn't really matter because even if the information is available, the information owner is not known! So even if we see someone sending millions of dollars using bitcoin, we don't know who is doing that! So the information matters least unless you can link it to an owner!
I am not bitcoin puritan but I really want to see a clean bitcoin network rather than being synonymous to illegal things! Just check the number of financial frauds happened in last 3 years and see how many are connected to bitcoin. Not a good picture, really!
So for me, this privacy feature of bitcoin is really taking us off-track than bringing us on-track where we can see organic growth among the legal merchants and users. Really sad to see!
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