Topic: a world witout money not even bitcoin (Read 1836 times)

Indeed, it's a real shame that so much Bitcoins are kept by worthless hackers.

Glad you agree on this
I believe a system like that which you describe would work for a small group, where everyone that belongs in it adds value to the group, like the communes in the 60's. Why? It's because we are animals (and I don't mean this in a negative way). All animals live in relatively small groups, because the brain is not adapted to be able to recognize its affiliation with a huge number of individuals - about 100 at best. In a money-less society, there will always be a scum that will find a way to take control by brute force. In a small commune, this is not a problem since there won't be the mob-effect that will make people dumb enough to give that scum power in the first place, so your idea of an ideal society would work well for that. Money is a tool for human to live in bigger groups than this, because with it, everyone can have a concrete power to stay free from the power-hungry looters that have nothing to offer to society.

I agree that being always negative is evil, but so is being always positive. I believe in rationality and in the trust of one's inner values
This ego-death I have experienced too, though we seem to have interpreted it differently

Thanks for explaining your idea in many paragraphs. I hope mine were readable too, since english is not my primary language.

Bitcoin does not emancipate us from slavery.  It is still a greed based system where the people with the most bitcoins will have the most influence and thus the same thirst for power will repeat.

It definitely is a step in the right direction.  But it will not bring peace.  Even now, some of the richest bitcoiners are those who scammed them from others.  So why wouldn't they continue to do so?

Money is not the root of evil, it is our own ego that does so.  Money is simply a tool created by our ego to facilitate greed, inequality and separation.


I feel that we are all conscious beings.  Everyone is a good person deep down, everyone has love, has a consciousness, and that is why I love everyone.  We are all one.

You can't be negative forever in this world, it literraly kills you to do so and is the cause of your own destruction.  You can, however, be positive forever.  Positivity is limitless.  We can make it so everyone in this planet is feeling a rise of energy, love, at the same time.  When that happens there is no negativity to stop this planet ascending into a higher form of consciousness where people feel infinite peace.

I have felt infinite peace through an egodeath experience.  It is very much real and it is truly the greatest thing existence has to offer.  No amount of material wealth or control could ever amount to the infinite power of love.

Money is not the element that makes us live in a world of fear. What does that is lack of self-love, and lack of love of life (I think we agree on that?). What's causing that pessimism has nothing to do with money, but by how society as a whole is treating human being as slaves. In a world with a free money that is controlled simply by traders interests (everyone is a trader), like Bitcoin, nobody would be a slave - everyone would control his money (rather than their government controlling it), therefore, their method of production, therefore, their self-worth. That would make people love themselves, and only when one loves one-self can he learn to truly love life and every other person who cherish life.

You say you love all human, but how can you love a person that does not love life, who has no passion, and therefore is not even a whole human being? I have trouble understanding that.

How can a loving society not be positive when the very essence of love is positivity?

Everyone deserves love.  If they cannot love theirself, including others, then they are deciding their own fate.

We are one being, we are a family.  A family should love, trust and work in unison, not against each other.  Otherwise, is it really a family?


I love all humans.

"With the power of soul, anything is possible" Jimi Hendrix

World peace requires unity.  Money's very purpose is to divide things.

Money does not make the world go round, we do.  Society could be the exact same without money, except without tyrannical governments and corrupt financial institutions, bribery, war, poverty, all which become meaningless without the motivation of greed.

We live in a world of fear when we can live in a world of love and peace, and that's nothing to fear.  Otherwise, we will be the cause of our own extinction.  We all have the choice to make.

Money does not make love impossible. Money trains people to love value, and some humans are worth more than others.
I totally disagree that a society where everybody loves everybody would be positive, because giving undeserved love encourages mediocrity. You have to work for it, to be loved, or why work at all? That mentality transform people with potential into worthless slugs.

Technology would evolve exponentially? I doubt this. What would be the incencitive? In your society, when people will see that there's a great mind who's able to create a great technology, they'll use him as a sacrificial animal to build them the things that they need but do not deserve. And with time, this mind will become dull and will be closed to the world. Great minds deserve great rewards, hence the use of money. Ever heard of a great technology that began in a communist country?

Love is a noble ideal, and I feel great love for all animals, for the universe as a whole, for science, but it's impossible to love all humans. Since we are of the same species, preferences are inevitable, and these preferences are in line with our internal sense of value. Giving value, on the form of love, to someone who has not deserved it by giving us a value we recognize, is nothing less than fraud to the most important part of our inner being.

I believe world peace is possible, but only in a world where people's sense of value is not corrupted by a society, like that which you describe, that favours a kind of love that's given even to human beings that are worthless to our happiness.

And I'll finish by saying that greed is not inherently bad. There's nothing wrong with having wealth that you deserved because you created a product, a service, that is valuable to people, that is valuable because it gives happiness to them.

P.S. Sorry if it sounded like an attack to your ideal; it is not, your opinion is quite noble and has value too.

Because you scam for a living, and have noticed a pattern?

Ha, how did I know you would post instantaneously?

Of course you would want debt cancelled.  You owe Squall thousands of dollars, and you are not making regular payments.  Scammer.  

We have a society built around greed.  People think "what can I do to make the most money?"

Money facilitates greed.  It's sole purpose is to divide materials into yours and mine.

We can build a world that revolves around love.  People would then think "what can I do to help the most people?"

Once that happens, people would share things.  When people share things you are exchanging an item for energy.  When you receive something, you may feel burdened by possessing goods from other people or earth, so it's in your best interest to receive as little as you need to be as happy as you can.

When you give things away, you receive positive energy, peace, happiness.  If you help a lot of people, you will feel pretty satisfied about what you had done.

What would then happen is the entire world would become a more positive place.  We would all build off each other's positivity and, with time, would experience world peace.

So long as money exists, greed will taint the minds of those who seek to manipulate other's with corruption.  World peace is not achievable with a monetary system in place.

Technology would evolve exponentially.  Instead of companies seeking to extract the most money for the least amount of efficacy or upgrades, they would be completely devoted to helping create the most revolutionary products with no concern if it's a profitable venture or not.

Like minded individuals would work together, in unison, for the betterment of mankind.  Our entire planet would work as the one being we are and we would experience the largest evolutionary leap man has yet to see.

All it takes is love.  Love is free, abundant and ultimately, infinite.  There is energy for all and there is no limit on how much peace you can feel.

+1
And imagine you're working for a car company. How will they pay you? They'll give you a car every year? Or perhaps a windshied per day?
A world without money makes no sense, unless you want to go back to antiquity.

without money, you could end up starving to death.
think of it this way.
if you removed all forms of money you're left with trading goods and services for the things you need.
now what you'd have to do is keep swapping locally one good to get another good that you need.
money removes all that senseless swapping and says "here is something that you can trade for any item".
it turns a long process into a simple and easy one.

Even today, there are several isolated tribal societies who don't use any type of money / barter. But do we want to live like them?

Imagine all the inventions that have come forward and made your life easier because of people that wanted to make money

one word, communism

altough even communists didn't have what it takes to finally pull it off..

I'm actually pretty sad they didn't, because that was the only thing that might have been successful in their plan as I see it

     Money is not the point of life- but the trick is, if you can convince people that it is, you can make yourself rich in the process.


   I always think we the story of the Israelites escaping Egypt is so important in the world's religions- and why are religions from the Mid East so dominant? Why didn't west african religion or religion from the south pacific spread over the whole world? The fertile river valleys of the middle east are probably where people migrating out of Africa landed and it's where civilization has been the longest as far as we know.

   The Egyptians were really wealthy and had a hierarchical society- the closer to the Pharoah you were, the more power you got. Power is the freedom to do what you want, and property confers power. This is the problem in the liberal paradigm of liberty- liberty is a zero sum game- some people increase their liberty at the expense of others.

      The reason people want money is to satisfy their desires, but the more you feed the desires, the bigger they get, like feeding a fire. If you drive a fast car it is fun for a while, but soon you want a faster car. If you are doing cocaine, you just want more and more. If you have a hot woman, you want a hotter one.

   That's why the spiritual teachers have taught that the key to happiness is not money, but appreciation. If we focus on being grateful for what we have and making the best of it, we will be happy. A good way to be grateful is to remember that we didn't create any of what we have, and to remember where all of what we have, body, health, air, water, food, family, where it came from.

      The American revolution was essentially about property- the feudal system was that God owns everything, and the Pope or Cardinal says that the King is the King because God says so, and then everyone just leases their property from the King. The American revolution said that anybody can own stuff- this was also the same basic message of Islam. So probably these ideas worked their way up into Europe, resulting in the Enlightenment and then the American revolution. But people are missing the message that property is not the purpose of life- the purpose of life is to remember where we came from, and to use our property not just for unlimited personal gratification, but to use for to do good. Property is just a means to live and an opportunity- what we give we take with us when we die, and what we keep for ourselves we leave behind.

The Native Americans did not believe in ownership of land or natural resources.  If only this philosophy could work around the world, it would make for a much better place.  Human greed rules though, cant fight that fact. 

Is hard to imagine a world without money since from 12,000 B.C people are using it.

May be possible theoretically. But definitely not practical.

Money does not imply not living in harmony. In fact, the history of human nature taught us that in absense of money and fair bartering, the most used alternative is violence.

You are right, I am very wealthy thanks to bitcoin

But yes I think a world without money would be interesting but we have to rely on each other and work together in harmony no religion no politics