Accusation against Zazarb (escrow) for misconduct (Dropped) - page 2.

Watoshi-Dimobuto

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Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 07:17:58 AM

Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 07:12:04 AM

This is the escrow address.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

This is without a doubt the worst service I ever received from an escrow.

I know that's the address; but the only thing we can see there is that it was emptied in 2017. I think I recall zarzarb saying he used that address for different escrow deals/trades, so that could explain the volume of transactions.

Why did he move the funds? Only he can answer that, but it could be something as simple as a change from a desktop wallet to a hardware wallet, a firmware update.... I'm not saying he didn't use the funds for his own benefit, I'm just pointing out that there is nothing suggesting that, at least based on my criteria

It is standard practice to create a new bitcoin address for a new escrow agreement.

If the escrow agent wants to change the address, he can do so by updating the new address in the thread and signing it with his PGP key.

The escrow should try to reach out to the recipient. I have received zero private messages from zazark in my lifetime.

I mean it when I say this is the worst service I ever received from an escrow.

Csmiami

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Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 07:12:04 AM

This is the escrow address.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

This is without a doubt the worst service I ever received from an escrow.

I know that's the address; but the only thing we can see there is that it was emptied in 2017. I think I recall zarzarb saying he used that address for different escrow deals/trades, so that could explain the volume of transactions.

Why did he move the funds? Only he can answer that, but it could be something as simple as a change from a desktop wallet to a hardware wallet, a firmware update.... I'm not saying he didn't use the funds for his own benefit, I'm just pointing out that there is nothing suggesting that, at least based on my criteria

Watoshi-Dimobuto

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 19, 2020, 07:00:46 AM

Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 06:48:32 AM

Do you consider it OK to give loans out of escrowed funds?

Probably not. He should have kept it in a separate address if he needed to move it. I just don't think zazarb is in breach of contract with you since you don't have a contract with him. If gkv9 made a contract that's unfavorable to you (e.g. by not specifying terms of repayment) that's hardly zazarb's fault.

Hypothetically speaking if Watoshi-Dimobuto a reputed escrow agent uses escrow funds of 10BTC to lend out without permission, as long as the person who entered into contract with him is not aware of it and the agent pays up in the end, we can turn a blind eye and his reputation is unaffected. Is that it?

Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 07:10:12 AM

But there is no hard evidence suggesting zarzarb used those funds on his lending service. He could have moved them because he changed his wallet, to update the wallet onto a Segwit one.... or he could have moved to another address which has many movements and the funds remain unnoticed, but are still there. He can't really know what happened, and as long as the funds are still somewhere, I see no issue with them being moved a couple of years later.

If he did use said funds to finance his lending service? Well, that'd be really unethical; but there's nothing actually suggesting that (or I'm not seeing it).

This is the escrow address.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

This is without a doubt the worst service I ever received from an escrow.

Csmiami

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But there is no hard evidence suggesting zarzarb used those funds on his lending service. He could have moved them because he changed his wallet, to update the wallet onto a Segwit one.... or he could have moved to another address which has many movements and the funds remain unnoticed, but are still there. He can't really know what happened, and as long as the funds are still somewhere, I see no issue with them being moved a couple of years later.

If he did use said funds to finance his lending service? Well, that'd be really unethical; but there's nothing actually suggesting that (or I'm not seeing it).

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Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 06:48:32 AM

Do you consider it OK to give loans out of escrowed funds?

Probably not. He should have kept it in a separate address if he needed to move it. I just don't think zazarb is in breach of contract with you since you don't have a contract with him. If gkv9 made a contract that's unfavorable to you (e.g. by not specifying terms of repayment) that's hardly zazarb's fault.

Watoshi-Dimobuto

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 19, 2020, 06:41:03 AM

Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 05:58:06 AM

Is using escrow funds to give loans to others without permission OK?

You were not around when the agreement with the escrow was made and you were not around to give the permission when zazarb moved the funds. Given the timeframes involved things may change. You're unable to access your old address yourself. Zazarb at least kept the funds and still has access to them.

The agreement was made in the thread. There should be no private agreement between gkv9 and zazarb contradicting the agreement posted in the thread. He agreed to keep the outstanding amount in the monitoring address.

Do you consider it OK to give loans out of escrowed funds?

suchmoon

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Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 05:58:06 AM

Is using escrow funds to give loans to others without permission OK?

You were not around when the agreement with the escrow was made and you were not around to give the permission when zazarb moved the funds. Given the timeframes involved things may change. You're unable to access your old address yourself. Zazarb at least kept the funds and still has access to them.

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 05:39:06 AM

Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 05:22:38 AM

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 05:19:45 AM

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread? What do you hope to achieve?

Zarzab pointed out that he had a defaulted loan on his trust feedback, and that the escrowed funds should go to the creditor of that loan. AFAIK, the connection between his account and the one taking the loan was made on that thread, so I'd bet that's the reason

Yep - found it https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17096873 (although that's not the post /she was referring to)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote

Re: [User Generated] - Known alts of anyone
06 December 2016, 19:25:35

+Merit #44
Accounts Connected: Watoshi-Dimobuto, searle421, Zorrocoin, Watsohi,

Off-topic. But, yes. When you are relying on outdated connections to give feedbacks some of them can be undeserving.

Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 05:53:20 AM

Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 05:47:03 AM

---

He is not; you can't expect to come back 4 years later, not verify yourself; accuse the escrow of stealing the funds, and think that everyone will nod to that without making any questions and checking your every move looking for indicators of the account being stolen/sold.

Looks like you deleted the part in which "users like me have made you pay for other's loans...." so who are those "users like me", and what loans have they made you repay that weren't yours? Was that with an alt account?

Quote from: Loyce club

If it is $15, I can settle it. It won't be the first time people like you force me to pay someone else's loan. The creditor of that loan is gone for good. Zarzab never intended to pay me from the beginning. He wants to keep the money.

Off-topic

Please open a new thread if you are accusing me.

Just to be clear, I am not accusing Zazarb to force him into releasing escrow. He won't anyway. I honestly think this is not how escrows are supposed to work. Please don't consider this thread as an extension of the lending section thread.

The subject of this scam accusation is misconduct and breach of contract by Zazarb.

Is using escrow funds to give loans to others without permission OK?

Csmiami

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Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 05:47:03 AM

---

He is not; you can't expect to come back 4 years later, not verify yourself; accuse the escrow of stealing the funds, and think that everyone will nod to that without making any questions and checking your every move looking for indicators of the account being stolen/sold.

Looks like you deleted the part in which "users like me have made you pay for other's loans...." so who are those "users like me", and what loans have they made you repay that weren't yours? Was that with an alt account?

Quote from: Loyce club

If it is $15, I can settle it. It won't be the first time people like you force me to pay someone else's loan. The creditor of that loan is gone for good. Zarzab never intended to pay me from the beginning. He wants to keep the money.

Watoshi-Dimobuto

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 05:19:45 AM

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread? What do you hope to achieve?

Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 05:10:34 AM

It's also true that it may seem odd that zarzab moved the funds of a monitored address, but the reasons for doing so can be a lot, so it's not really a valid point after 4 years.
Easiest solution? Sign the damm message like you were told 4 days (i think) ago and end this agony at once

You could also explain why you have come back after a four year absence (or are you a hacker and therefore can't provide a signed message as requested?)

What kind of explanation?
I was busy. I did check the thread one or two months after I left. After that I forgot about the loan and stopped visiting this forum entirely. I am glad I left. The members I knew left this place long ago.

If you think I hacked this account, give some evidence. Don't derail this thread. You can discuss further in the lending thread or open a new thread in scam accusation to discuss it.

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 05:45:39 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If you think I hacked this account, give some evidence. Don't derail this thread.

Given you're Trolling of the Known Alts thread just now, I'd say there might be something in it given you don't seem willing to provide proof (signed message) to back up your claim.

You are trolling this thread.

I deleted the post.

Timelord2067

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Quote from: ?? on ??

If you think I hacked this account, give some evidence. Don't derail this thread.

Given you're Trolling of the Known Alts thread just now, I'd say there might be something in it given you don't seem willing to provide proof (signed message) to back up your claim.

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Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 05:22:38 AM

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 05:19:45 AM

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread? What do you hope to achieve?

Zarzab pointed out that he had a defaulted loan on his trust feedback, and that the escrowed funds should go to the creditor of that loan. AFAIK, the connection between his account and the one taking the loan was made on that thread, so I'd bet that's the reason

Yep - found it https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17096873 (although that's not the post /she was referring to)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote

Re: [User Generated] - Known alts of anyone
06 December 2016, 19:25:35

+Merit #44
Accounts Connected: Watoshi-Dimobuto, searle421, Zorrocoin, Watsohi,

Csmiami

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 05:19:45 AM

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread? What do you hope to achieve?

Zarzab pointed out that he had a defaulted loan on his trust feedback, and that the escrowed funds should go to the creditor of that loan. AFAIK, the connection between his account and the one taking the loan was made on that thread, so I'd bet that's the reason

Timelord2067

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Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread? What do you hope to achieve?

Quote from: Csmiami on May 19, 2020, 05:10:34 AM

It's also true that it may seem odd that zarzab moved the funds of a monitored address, but the reasons for doing so can be a lot, so it's not really a valid point after 4 years.
Easiest solution? Sign the damm message like you were told 4 days (i think) ago and end this agony at once

You could also explain why you have come back after a four year absence (or are you a hacker and therefore can't provide a signed message as requested?)

Csmiami

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Funny I haven't seen this ultimatum posted here....

Quote

You did not keep your part of escrow agreement. You misappropriated the escrowed funds within 1 year of escrow and used it at your discretion. In the interest of fairness, I will consider it a loan from the day of misappropriation to the day you send 0.01BTC back to the address at the interest rates gkv9 offered to pay in the opening post.

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

The interest rate in the opening post is 20% every 4 weeks. There are 151 full weeks between 2017-06-21 and 2020-05-17.

Principal and interest compounded every 4 weeks at 20% for 148 weeks is 8.5056BTC.

I will accept any of the following arrangements :

You will release escrow of 0.01BTC to my address 1P6WESDzkd2qZGZNXVP2pM8XiFUuPQnwKk.
You will release escrow of 0.01BTC to https://files.savethechildren.org/cryptocurrency-donation/ and PM me the proof of donation.
You will require me to spend my time recovering addresses I used 3 and 4 years ago and once I prove I lend OP, you will release escrow of 0.01BTC and interest of 8.4956BTC.

Pick one.

I must say; sending the funds to the original repayment address, event if the coins may get burnt, should be the optimal result, because it should be in control of OP. But, if that address is in control of OP, there is nothing stopping him from signing the message, so we're cricling back to the same point...

It's also true that it may seem odd that zarzab moved the funds of a monitored address, but the reasons for doing so can be a lot, so it's not really a valid point after 4 years.
Easiest solution? Sign the damm message like you were told 4 days (i think) ago and end this agony at once

Watoshi-Dimobuto

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Quote from: Harkorede on May 19, 2020, 02:06:30 AM

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 01:54:01 AM

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago? Are they ongoing issues? If not, why the delay in reporting this? (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

From what I can conclude, Watoshi has some valid arguments, but AFAICT doesn't have access to any of those said addresses, but would rather the coins go to waste in either of those old addresses than ending up with Zazarb. Zazarb, on the other hand have made reasonable points too, but It all comes down to who is willing to be less-stubborn.

I did ask Zazarb to donate the amount. Aside from that I have every intention of receiving the 0.01BTC owed to me.

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 02:06:48 AM

Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 01:59:28 AM

Escrow refuses to release funds to both the address I provided now and the address I provided in 2016 when I lend gkv9.

~~https:// bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54450442#msg54450442~~

Your link doesn't show a "refusal" by anyone.

Perhaps you didn't notice this:

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 01:54:01 AM

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

Quote from: Harkorede on May 19, 2020, 02:06:30 AM

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

I tend not to watch Lauda defecate in public. Besides, this is the actual "scam accusation".

(am scroll/reading the LaudaM defecation thread and it looks like post #2 by @Yoshi sums it up nicely as does @Joel_Jantsen's post #2 in the original loan thread that has been referenced:

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 07, 2016, 06:53:37 AM

Your account password was reset recently .Kind of shady . What if the account was sold and the new owner is using that to get this loan ?

EDIT : Whoever is willing to give this loan ,please go through this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915029.40 The Op doesn't seem to have a good repayment history.

I updated the post above.

Yoshi is talking about negative feedback Lauda left on my profile.
OP of the loan thread is gkv9. I didn't reset my account password. Joel_Jantsen posts that gkv9's password was reset recently and doesn't seem to have a good repayment history.

Both the posts are unrelated to this thread.

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Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 19, 2020, 01:59:28 AM

Escrow refuses to release funds to both the address I provided now and the address I provided in 2016 when I lend gkv9.

~~https:// bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54450442#msg54450442~~

Your link doesn't show a "refusal" by anyone.

Perhaps you didn't notice this:

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 01:54:01 AM

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

Quote from: Harkorede on May 19, 2020, 02:06:30 AM

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

I tend not to watch Lauda defecate in public. Besides, this is the actual "scam accusation".

(am scroll/reading the LaudaM defecation thread and it looks like post #2 by @Yoshi sums it up nicely as does @Joel_Jantsen's post #2 in the original loan thread that has been referenced:

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 07, 2016, 06:53:37 AM

Your account password was reset recently .Kind of shady . What if the account was sold and the new owner is using that to get this loan ?

EDIT : Whoever is willing to give this loan ,please go through this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915029.40 The Op doesn't seem to have a good repayment history.

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 01:54:01 AM

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago? Are they ongoing issues? If not, why the delay in reporting this? (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

From what I can conclude, Watoshi has some valid arguments, but AFAICT doesn't have access to any of those said addresses, but would rather the coins go to waste in either of those old addresses than ending up with Zazarb. Zazarb, on the other hand have made reasonable points too, but It all comes down to who is willing to be less-stubborn.

Watoshi-Dimobuto

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 01:54:01 AM

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago? Are they ongoing issues? If not, why the delay in reporting this? (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

Escrow refuses to release funds to both the address I provided now and the address I provided in 2016 when I lend gkv9.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54454485 (Updated link. There are two other posts where he gives excuses like this.)

Quote from: Timelord2067 on May 19, 2020, 01:54:01 AM

Can you outline what the original agreement was etc in your own words in a one paragraph walk through of who's funds, what the purpose of their being in escrow that sort of thing.

I lend gkv9 0.05BTC as one of three lenders. He paid back the principal. I increased the interest from 0.001BTC to 0.01BTC as a repayment for a previous adjusted loan before I left. After a few months, gkv9 deposited the interest funds to escrow to repay me when I come back online.

Quote

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

I was bored of the forum. When I came back last time, I tried to join a few signature campaigns and was rejected because of general inactivity.

Timelord2067

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Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago? Are they ongoing issues? If not, why the delay in reporting this? (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

Can you outline what the original agreement was etc in your own words in a one paragraph walk through of who's funds, what the purpose of their being in escrow that sort of thing.

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

Quote from: Watoshi-Dimobuto on May 14, 2020, 11:58:14 AM

Bet ID d71b774c-7cbf-4734-b73f-3ab33367be8b
Username WatO
Payout x100

Topic: Accusation against Zazarb (escrow) for misconduct (Dropped) - page 2. (Read 598 times)