ActiveMining Overview and Speculation Thread - page 25.

Stuartuk

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: redbeans2012 on August 18, 2013, 01:57:19 PM

He obviously holds alot of shares in ATM.. so I understand why his is biased

If you reckon he knows what he's on about, (and lets face it some of these facts and figures he comes out with can't all be made up) it might be better to ponder on why he holds the shares rather than why he gives other setups a hard time and maybe bigs up ACtM.

Vbs

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: stereotype on August 18, 2013, 01:48:53 PM

Quote from: bobboooiie on August 18, 2013, 12:58:21 PM

Now I understand that VBS probably holds a lot of shares in Actm but you are starting to look silly. When AMC was new and was looking like scam more than anything you were supporting it and hyping it all around. Never ever have I heard you say anything wrong. But on every other company that came on scene from then, you just try to look for what is wrong with it (not that it is bad thing overall) and point it out.
Not like I wouldnt actually hate BFL and their shit btw.

I dont think you meant 'silly', did you? You meant 'biased', surely? Thing is, being biased is unavoidable if you have a given interest. The thing to note is Vbs's total grasp of presenting stated stats, as a means to compare and grade. And because of his knowledge of chip design and form, he is even able to present examples of whats gone before/precedence.

To be silly, would be to ignore Vbs....whatever his interests may or may not be.

I think the first thing anyone needs to do when looking at specs of anything is compare them to what others have done/achieved. I've been looking at promises from a lot of the current chip designs and the first thing I notice is they look way out of what's been accomplished, some even on the same or older technology nodes.

I may be biased, but I still think ActM's flip-chip (FC672, 27×27), at 16GH/s and ~1GH/s/W has some of the most reasonable specs around here.

N_S

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: redbeans2012 on August 18, 2013, 01:57:19 PM

I know nothing about chip design, I'm sure most of us don't know much about it either. Just cause someone can throw out a bunch of numbers and voltages doesn't mean they are an expert in the matter, although it looks like it. Its pretty obvious that Activemining has gotten off alot lighter by VBS than the other companies that have come on board. He obviously holds alot of shares in ATM.. so I understand why his is biased

What if he's become biased because after looking into all the companies, he sees them as the best place to put his money?

redbeans2012

hero member

Activity: 887

Merit: 1000

Quote from: stereotype on August 18, 2013, 01:48:53 PM

Quote from: bobboooiie on August 18, 2013, 12:58:21 PM

Now I understand that VBS probably holds a lot of shares in Actm but you are starting to look silly. When AMC was new and was looking like scam more than anything you were supporting it and hyping it all around. Never ever have I heard you say anything wrong. But on every other company that came on scene from then, you just try to look for what is wrong with it (not that it is bad thing overall) and point it out.
Not like I wouldnt actually hate BFL and their shit btw.

I dont think you meant 'silly', did you? You meant 'biased', surely? Thing is, being biased is unavoidable if you have a given interest. The thing to note is Vbs's total grasp of presenting stated stats, as a means to compare and grade. And because of his knowledge of chip design and form, he is even able to present examples of whats gone before/precedence.

To be silly, would be to ignore Vbs....whatever his interests may or may not be.

I know nothing about chip design, I'm sure most of us don't know much about it either. Just cause someone can throw out a bunch of numbers and voltages doesn't mean they are an expert in the matter, although it looks like it. Its pretty obvious that Activemining has gotten off alot lighter by VBS than the other companies that have come on board. He obviously holds alot of shares in ATM.. so I understand why his is biased

stereotype

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1000

Quote from: bobboooiie on August 18, 2013, 12:58:21 PM

Now I understand that VBS probably holds a lot of shares in Actm but you are starting to look silly. When AMC was new and was looking like scam more than anything you were supporting it and hyping it all around. Never ever have I heard you say anything wrong. But on every other company that came on scene from then, you just try to look for what is wrong with it (not that it is bad thing overall) and point it out.
Not like I wouldnt actually hate BFL and their shit btw.

I dont think you meant 'silly', did you? You meant 'biased', surely? Thing is, being biased is unavoidable if you have a given interest. The thing to note is Vbs's total grasp of presenting stated stats, as a means to compare and grade. And because of his knowledge of chip design and form, he is even able to present examples of whats gone before/precedence.

To be silly, would be to ignore Vbs....whatever his interests may or may not be.

Vbs

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: N_S on August 18, 2013, 01:36:13 PM

Any insight into this volume on BTCT right now? Lots of 30 share buys followed by 30 share sells. Why do this?

Someone is executing PUT options, look closer at the prices! Wink

N_S

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Any insight into this volume on BTCT right now? Lots of 30 share buys followed by 30 share sells. Why do this?

Vbs

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: N_S on August 18, 2013, 12:44:23 PM

So are you saying that either what BFL has released spec wise is overly optimistic or they're not nearly as far along with development as they're leading people to believe?

I'd say why release specs on a PCI-E card that already defies what the actual cooling hardware can do in that form factor? When aiming for an external exhaust card, why not release a 250W, 420GH/s card that is much more believable when compared with the rest of the hardware out there?

Quote from: bobboooiie on August 18, 2013, 12:58:21 PM

Now I understand that VBS probably holds a lot of shares in Actm but you are starting to look silly. When AMC was new and was looking like scam more than anything you were supporting it and hyping it all around. Never ever have I heard you say anything wrong. But on every other company that came on scene from then, you just try to look for what is wrong with it (not that it is bad thing overall) and point it out.
Not like I wouldnt actually hate BFL and their shit btw.

Please give factual points where I'm looking silly, other that a circular definition. You don't agree with my views? Why? Which ones? Which points was I making that later didn't turn out accurate? Debate my points, not myself.

bobboooiie

hero member

Activity: 656

Merit: 500

Now I understand that VBS probably holds a lot of shares in Actm but you are starting to look silly. When AMC was new and was looking like scam more than anything you were supporting it and hyping it all around. Never ever have I heard you say anything wrong. But on every other company that came on scene from then, you just try to look for what is wrong with it (not that it is bad thing overall) and point it out.
Not like I wouldnt actually hate BFL and their shit btw.

N_S

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Vbs on August 18, 2013, 12:32:40 PM

Some thoughts about the BFL Monarch, https://products.butterflylabs.com/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html

The four CAD pics don't correspond to the final product (PCI-E x16 on pics, PCI-E x1 on product; no PCI-E power connectors on pics, each card should require two PCI-E 8-pin plugs)
External exhaust blower-type cooling solution is unsuitable for 350W TDP. This kind of TDP requires either water-cooling or getting about half of the heat back into the case (e.g., check dual-gpu cards). On a 4U with 3 of those cards, that's ~0.5*350*3 = 525W of heat recirculating inside!
The margin on the hashrate specs is very large: "600 GH/s nominal performance ( + - 20% )", meaning a 600*0.8 = 480GH/s card still falls into specs.
Power usage is a gamble for this form factor: "350w (0.6w/GH conservative estimate)". Depending on the final cooler solution they decide on, they are already operating on higher cooling performance assumptions than anyone else. Blower-type cards (GTX Titan, GTX 780, AMD 7970) are all around a TDP of 250W. If more dissipating power is needed, the cooling solution may not allow for it, requiring cards to be run underclocked/undervolted.

So are you saying that either what BFL has released spec wise is overly optimistic or they're not nearly as far along with development as they're leading people to believe?

Vbs

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Some thoughts about the BFL Monarch, https://products.butterflylabs.com/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html

The four CAD pics don't correspond to the final product (PCI-E x16 on pics, PCI-E x1 on product; no PCI-E power connectors on pics, each card should require two PCI-E 8-pin plugs)
External exhaust blower-type cooling solution is unsuitable for 350W TDP. This kind of TDP requires either water-cooling or getting about half of the heat back into the case (e.g., check dual-gpu cards). On a 4U with 3 of those cards, that's ~0.5*350*3 = 525W of heat recirculating inside!
The margin on the hashrate specs is very large: "600 GH/s nominal performance ( + - 20% )", meaning a 600*0.8 = 480GH/s card still falls into specs.
Power usage is a gamble for this form factor: "350w (0.6w/GH conservative estimate)". Depending on the final cooler solution they decide on, they are already operating on higher cooling performance assumptions than anyone else. Blower-type cards (GTX Titan, GTX 780, AMD 7970) are all around a TDP of 250W. If more dissipating power is needed, the cooling solution may not allow for it, requiring cards to be run underclocked/undervolted.

Stuartuk

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Don't worry the eASIC chip will not be the Avalon chip.

yuansuyi

member

Activity: 210

Merit: 10

Quote from: Stuartuk on August 18, 2013, 04:15:56 AM

Quote from: yuansuyi on August 17, 2013, 10:24:22 PM

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 17, 2013, 09:02:28 PM

Thoughts on Butterfly's Monarch 28nm product and how it might change the landscape?

600 GH/s

Power
350W

Price
$4,680

Ships: Nov/December

Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd (sic) a single product. Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas. We have shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined

BFL is telling the truth.
The ACTM's team can not run Avalon chips in full speed with everything needed opensourced by Avalon. What do you expect from them when it comes to get their own 28nm super super chips running?

I think eASIC will produce a chip that performs to spec. They have more history than 100 BFL's put together. The BFL statement is misleading, its not the mining companies who make the chips after all its their suppliers and we have one of the best.

Sure eASIC will produce a chip for ACTM. Is eASIC going to design and produce board/pcb for ACTM, I'm not sure.

Avalon designed chip and machine for ACTM to use, but they can not get it running in full speed at current stage.

Edit: other teams are delivering Avalon clones now, even some with 3 batch order.

Stuartuk

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: yuansuyi on August 17, 2013, 10:24:22 PM

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 17, 2013, 09:02:28 PM

Thoughts on Butterfly's Monarch 28nm product and how it might change the landscape?

600 GH/s

Power
350W

Price
$4,680

Ships: Nov/December

Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd (sic) a single product. Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas. We have shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined

BFL is telling the truth.
The ACTM's team can not run Avalon chips in full speed with everything needed opensourced by Avalon. What do you expect from them when it comes to get their own 28nm super super chips running?

I think eASIC will produce a chip that performs to spec. They have more history than 100 BFL's put together. The BFL statement is misleading, its not the mining companies who make the chips after all its their suppliers and we have one of the best.

WildFire.ca

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 503

Quote from: ArcticWolf on August 17, 2013, 10:09:34 PM

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 17, 2013, 09:02:28 PM

Thoughts on Butterfly's Monarch 28nm product and how it might change the landscape?

600 GH/s

Power
350W

Price
$4,680

Ships: Nov/December

Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd (sic) a single product. Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas. We have shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined

I doubt many people will be buying from BFL after what has been an unmitigated disaster on their 65nm architecture.
They have proven they cant deliver on time or on spec, and their expected delivery is after ActM's is scheduled to hit the market, so I dont see them changing the landscape much at all.

Not to mention they have no problems insulting there customers and coming up with BS reason the product will be delayed another 2 weeks. People would have been a lot happier with them if they would just be honest with there clients about what was happening.

sayaz

member

Activity: 119

Merit: 10

Yeah well BFL also says they're a good choice to preorder from because they have delivered more products than all ASIC competitors combined.

Says a lot doesn't it.

yuansuyi

member

Activity: 210

Merit: 10

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 17, 2013, 09:02:28 PM

Thoughts on Butterfly's Monarch 28nm product and how it might change the landscape?

600 GH/s

Power
350W

Price
$4,680

Ships: Nov/December

Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd (sic) a single product. Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas. We have shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined

BFL is telling the truth.
The ACTM's team can not run Avalon chips in full speed with everything needed opensourced by Avalon. What do you expect from them when it comes to get their own 28nm super super chips running?

ArcticWolf

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 17, 2013, 09:02:28 PM

Thoughts on Butterfly's Monarch 28nm product and how it might change the landscape?

600 GH/s

Power
350W

Price
$4,680

Ships: Nov/December

Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd (sic) a single product. Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas. We have shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined

I doubt many people will be buying from BFL after what has been an unmitigated disaster on their 65nm architecture.
They have proven they cant deliver on time or on spec, and their expected delivery is after ActM's is scheduled to hit the market, so I dont see them changing the landscape much at all.

kingcrimson

legendary

Activity: 1025

Merit: 1000

Thoughts on Butterfly's Monarch 28nm product and how it might change the landscape?

600 GH/s

Power
350W

Price
$4,680

Ships: Nov/December

Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd (sic) a single product. Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas. We have shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined

kleeck

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

https://karatcoin.co

OK, guys.

I was bored this evening and decided to run my share value through the infamous Vbs projections¹. The results were quite staggering and I know that I'm late to this party. There was a lot of talk about the "potential" of ActM but the dividend payouts that are projected are just too good to be true². I can't find any issue with the document. All projections look reasonable... hell, even if I cut everything in half it looks damn good... Can you guys pick the Vbs forecast apart and shatter my hopes and dreams?

Thanks.

¹ https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2752506
² https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlNssp0bn4rOdG5xdVFQRHZ2YlJYY1ZjWVRhZFdka3c#gid=0
(You should be able to copy the document and put your own share value in.)

Topic: ActiveMining Overview and Speculation Thread - page 25. (Read 168100 times)