Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 170. (Read 479475 times)
ActM isn't mentioned because these are new IPOs. ActM is old school - weeks ago!
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Great so... lets invest in an unknown. I don't doubt they'll come up with something awesome, but they also have a glass ceiling in the percentage of network hash rate they can take. They've currently got 12% of network hash rate, so they could double that, but not really any more than double... that's their major class ceiling. Whereas ActM can increase their hashrate by a few hundred times, plus hardware sales.
Their franchising plans means no hashrate glass ceiling. Plus hardware sales.
Well no, potential franchises will have to consider the value proposition of the cost of operating an ASICMINER franchise versus holding mining security, buying hardware with higher GH/watt, or investing in growth funds. There are no sure bets (especially in bitcoin).
This is the crux of it and a huge part of this decision is based on tech. Is the franchised mining operation going to run off of ASICMINER's 130nm technology? Is the benefit of the equipment being ran by AM worth whatever operational cost they charge? Will investing in something newer and more efficient (28nm?!) outweigh the cost of running and maintain the operation themselves? There are a number of variables in this CBA that will need to be weighed.
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Great so... lets invest in an unknown. I don't doubt they'll come up with something awesome, but they also have a glass ceiling in the percentage of network hash rate they can take. They've currently got 12% of network hash rate, so they could double that, but not really any more than double... that's their major class ceiling. Whereas ActM can increase their hashrate by a few hundred times, plus hardware sales.
Their franchising plans means no hashrate glass ceiling. Plus hardware sales.
Well no, potential franchises will have to consider the value proposition of the cost of operating an ASICMINER franchise versus holding mining security, buying hardware with higher GH/watt, or investing in growth funds. There are no sure bets (especially in bitcoin).
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Great so... lets invest in an unknown. I don't doubt they'll come up with something awesome, but they also have a glass ceiling in the percentage of network hash rate they can take. They've currently got 12% of network hash rate, so they could double that, but not really any more than double... that's their major class ceiling. Whereas ActM can increase their hashrate by a few hundred times, plus hardware sales.
Their franchising plans means no hashrate glass ceiling. Plus hardware sales.
well no... because... if they go above certain percentages they create fear of a 51% attack (really only about 30% needed sporadically) which completely undermines the value of bitcoin and by direct extension, any mining group or company.
Hardware Franchising
This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.
This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.
This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.
This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Great so... lets invest in an unknown. I don't doubt they'll come up with something awesome, but they also have a glass ceiling in the percentage of network hash rate they can take. They've currently got 12% of network hash rate, so they could double that, but not really any more than double... that's their major class ceiling. Whereas ActM can increase their hashrate by a few hundred times, plus hardware sales.
Their franchising plans means no hashrate glass ceiling. Plus hardware sales.
well no... because... if they go above certain percentages they create fear of a 51% attack (really only about 30% needed sporadically) which completely undermines the value of bitcoin and by direct extension, any mining group or company.
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Great so... lets invest in an unknown. I don't doubt they'll come up with something awesome, but they also have a glass ceiling in the percentage of network hash rate they can take. They've currently got 12% of network hash rate, so they could double that, but not really any more than double... that's their major class ceiling. Whereas ActM can increase their hashrate by a few hundred times, plus hardware sales.
Their franchising plans means no hashrate glass ceiling. Plus hardware sales.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
Mind reading 2 posts above yours?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2890082
back to topic.
With FastHash machine going to delliver in Oct/Nov, do you think Ken will earn back investment in Avalon clones?
About AM's hardware sale, It's only because selling is more profitable than mining, and buyer will never earn back their investment by mining, nothing to do with power issues. With Avalon start to deliver, it's good point for AM to sell backup chips(or order more chips from fabs)for quick profit ASAP.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
Mind reading 2 posts above yours?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2890082
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
No, AM are using 130nm, Avalon are the ones using 110nm.
Damn, you are quite right!
Update
A lot of great thing happened last week. We wiped over the obstacles (infrastructure and paperwork) on deploying and put a lot of our available hashrate online. We also did a significant improvement (power, design, appearance) on the USB stick from the sample batch to the production batch.
For the discussion in the last few days, what we... I could say, is only that our IC design team had achieved fantastic results, as everyone could see and compare, with the most limited funds (barely more than 100k$ raised last August) and most inferior mask-set of choice (130nm which belongs to the antiquity era), and I'm proud of it.
A lot of great thing happened last week. We wiped over the obstacles (infrastructure and paperwork) on deploying and put a lot of our available hashrate online. We also did a significant improvement (power, design, appearance) on the USB stick from the sample batch to the production batch.
For the discussion in the last few days, what we... I could say, is only that our IC design team had achieved fantastic results, as everyone could see and compare, with the most limited funds (barely more than 100k$ raised last August) and most inferior mask-set of choice (130nm which belongs to the antiquity era), and I'm proud of it.
Interesting that friedcat considers that their "IC design team had achieved fantastic results", while the newer 130nm guys all think they can produce much much better chips...
They achieved fantastic results because they were the first (?) to get ASIC's hashing - its also interesting that friedcat openly says (and rightly so) that 130nm tech is basically a joke. But the joke is on the companies coming to market NOW with joke tech. I'm expecting AM to replace their tech with 45nm or so... they've got the money for it now.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
No, AM are using 130nm, Avalon are the ones using 110nm.
Damn, you are quite right!
Update
A lot of great thing happened last week. We wiped over the obstacles (infrastructure and paperwork) on deploying and put a lot of our available hashrate online. We also did a significant improvement (power, design, appearance) on the USB stick from the sample batch to the production batch.
For the discussion in the last few days, what we... I could say, is only that our IC design team had achieved fantastic results, as everyone could see and compare, with the most limited funds (barely more than 100k$ raised last August) and most inferior mask-set of choice (130nm which belongs to the antiquity era), and I'm proud of it.
A lot of great thing happened last week. We wiped over the obstacles (infrastructure and paperwork) on deploying and put a lot of our available hashrate online. We also did a significant improvement (power, design, appearance) on the USB stick from the sample batch to the production batch.
For the discussion in the last few days, what we... I could say, is only that our IC design team had achieved fantastic results, as everyone could see and compare, with the most limited funds (barely more than 100k$ raised last August) and most inferior mask-set of choice (130nm which belongs to the antiquity era), and I'm proud of it.
Interesting that friedcat considers that their "IC design team had achieved fantastic results", while the newer 130nm guys all think they can produce much much better chips...
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
No, AM are using 130nm, Avalon are the ones using 110nm.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
ASICMiner has hit their glass ceiling and are basically floundering to be fair, simply because they are on old tech.
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Great so... lets invest in an unknown. I don't doubt they'll come up with something awesome, but they also have a glass ceiling in the percentage of network hash rate they can take. They've currently got 12% of network hash rate, so they could double that, but not really any more than double... that's their major class ceiling. Whereas ActM can increase their hashrate by a few hundred times, plus hardware sales.
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Oh, I have much more faith in them than any of the new hacked IPO's appearing with new chips properly designed.
The only exception for me is ActM (eAsic) and KnC (ORSoC), even though I'm really doubtful of KnC: they seem to have designed a 192 core chip at ~500MHz, 0.9V. That's a very very very big gamble. In the end, I'm expecting they will have to cut on the frequency to 300-400MHz and up the voltage 1.0+V to get that behemoth working.
(and let's not even talk about the problem of having 4 of those together generating 250W of heat each)
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
ASICMiner has hit their glass ceiling and are basically floundering to be fair, simply because they are on old tech.
ASICMINER's next generation chips will be out by November... do you honestly think any of these IPOs will produce functional products by then? We don't know the specs of the next AM chips... but there is every reason to assume they will be in line with the specs these other companies are promising, if not superior.
The primary difference is that ASICMINER has proven that they can deliver.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
TBH Vbs, i dont really know or understand what those two companies are promising. The lack of easily digestible, and consistent information/communication is at best, questionable.
They came to the market one year late and are now grasping to stick around. The fact >90% here don't understand the technical data makes them easy grabs.
ASICMiner has hit their glass ceiling and are basically floundering to be fair, simply because they are on old tech.
The fact they haven't yet deployed their inital 12TH + 50TH after all this time is a dead giveaway. They are currently at ~40TH, so that's ~4000 blades at 83W each, 332kW (more like ~370kW@90% efficient power delivery). Their power infrastructure must be on their knees, that's why they try to sell as much as they can instead of putting them operational. They know they would only be increasing the size of the elephant. I like how these new 130nm IPOs think they can solve this problem with just some finger snapping.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
ASICMiner has hit their glass ceiling and are basically floundering to be fair, simply because they are on old tech.
Just in case you don't know, ASICMiner is mining with these oldhat tech 130nm "ASIC" chips.
No, Asicminer is mining with oldhat, but less older, 110nm ones. Labcoin and Btcgarden preferred to go to even older tech at 130nm and promise better chips. Great promises right?
TBH Vbs, i dont really know or understand what those two companies are promising. The lack of easily digestible, and consistent information/communication is at best, questionable.
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