Ken.
What are the specs for the full custom 28nm? This is the main factor in our business, would you agree?
Are we going to create a 100+GH/s++ chip or is it still small (<100GH/s)?
Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] - page 107. (Read 771512 times)
January 21, 2014, 07:58:06 PM
January 21, 2014, 07:57:49 PM
Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.
Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros
Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros
Very good.
When money is tight people go for the budget option. We can be the Walmart of bitcoin mining why not. So long as we can produce at volume we can do very well from 55nm.
January 21, 2014, 07:52:07 PM
Hm... i really like that we finally get an update that... unbelievably... contains facts. Thats something i like really much. Though im not sure about the content.
So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.
I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.
I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?
So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.
I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.
I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?
Summarized.
- Will this profitable for ACTM?
- Won't the 28NM chips we were going to make be unable to meet ROI by Feb 14th (ish); so won't these start off unprofitable for everyone?
- Are the 55nm chips only being produced to appease previous customers?
- Will these chips (from selling and mining) meet ROI for investors (at IPO price I assume?)
- What part of Q2 for chips to come in? (Can we get a month? If you say Q2 and are expecting April, what happens if Ken says, nope now its Q3? Are we end of Q2 or beginning of Q2)
January 21, 2014, 07:47:07 PM
Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.
Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros
Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros
Very good.
January 21, 2014, 07:43:29 PM
Hm... i really like that we finally get an update that... unbelievably... contains facts. Thats something i like really much. Though im not sure about the content.
So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.
I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.
I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?
So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.
I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.
I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?
January 21, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.
Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros
Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros
January 21, 2014, 07:33:00 PM
kleeck,
using https://coinplorer.com/Hardware and Ken's '1.9 GH/s, 2.5 Watts.'
I think this 55nm chip will have around 65% of the performance (W/GH) of KnC's 2014 Q2 Neptune 20nm chip?
Now if we are only 35% in performance terms behind the cutting edge market leaders I think that is pretty good. We can price our units accordingly. Like you say the market is deep and there is certainly room for a budget machine that costs 65% of the top end KnC model and performs 65% as well. We would be on equal terms with KnC in price per GH's if we can price our machines accordingly.
Even if we are 20% more expensive than KnC we can still sell out if the global supply of machines can not meet the global demand. Infact if demand is insatiable as it may become with BTC higher than it is then every single miner that can ROI will be sold out.
So long as we can produce a machine that will ROI+ we will do well with the 55nm tech. And 1.3W per GH in Q2 is not obsolete by any means.
using https://coinplorer.com/Hardware and Ken's '1.9 GH/s, 2.5 Watts.'
I think this 55nm chip will have around 65% of the performance (W/GH) of KnC's 2014 Q2 Neptune 20nm chip?
Now if we are only 35% in performance terms behind the cutting edge market leaders I think that is pretty good. We can price our units accordingly. Like you say the market is deep and there is certainly room for a budget machine that costs 65% of the top end KnC model and performs 65% as well. We would be on equal terms with KnC in price per GH's if we can price our machines accordingly.
Even if we are 20% more expensive than KnC we can still sell out if the global supply of machines can not meet the global demand. Infact if demand is insatiable as it may become with BTC higher than it is then every single miner that can ROI will be sold out.
So long as we can produce a machine that will ROI+ we will do well with the 55nm tech. And 1.3W per GH in Q2 is not obsolete by any means.
Take this into account, a lot more customers have $1,000 or $2,000 for a machine than $10,000 for a machine.
January 21, 2014, 07:21:42 PM
kleeck,
using https://coinplorer.com/Hardware and Ken's '1.9 GH/s, 2.5 Watts.'
I think this 55nm chip will have around 65% of the performance (W/GH) of KnC's 2014 Q2 Neptune 20nm chip?
Now if we are only 35% in performance terms behind the cutting edge market leaders I think that is pretty good. We can price our units accordingly. Like you say the market is deep and there is certainly room for a budget machine that costs 65% of the top end KnC model and performs 65% as well. We would be on equal terms with KnC in price per GH's if we can price our machines accordingly.
Even if we are 20% more expensive than KnC we can still sell out if the global supply of machines can not meet the global demand. Infact if demand is insatiable as it may become with BTC higher than it is then every single miner that can ROI will be sold out.
So long as we can produce a machine that will ROI+ we will do well with the 55nm tech. And 1.3W per GH in Q2 is not obsolete by any means.
using https://coinplorer.com/Hardware and Ken's '1.9 GH/s, 2.5 Watts.'
I think this 55nm chip will have around 65% of the performance (W/GH) of KnC's 2014 Q2 Neptune 20nm chip?
Now if we are only 35% in performance terms behind the cutting edge market leaders I think that is pretty good. We can price our units accordingly. Like you say the market is deep and there is certainly room for a budget machine that costs 65% of the top end KnC model and performs 65% as well. We would be on equal terms with KnC in price per GH's if we can price our machines accordingly.
Even if we are 20% more expensive than KnC we can still sell out if the global supply of machines can not meet the global demand. Infact if demand is insatiable as it may become with BTC higher than it is then every single miner that can ROI will be sold out.
So long as we can produce a machine that will ROI+ we will do well with the 55nm tech. And 1.3W per GH in Q2 is not obsolete by any means.
January 21, 2014, 07:04:31 PM
I fully support listing on CT as soon as possible if only to give these whining assclowns the chance to dump their shares and then GTFO of this thread.
We're here to help you celebrate! After all, you're getting almost double what you were promised (55nm instead of 28nm) only half a year later! True, it's just another promise, but hey, let's not get greedy, amirite?
plus 1 for CT - a great stock deserves a great exchange!
January 21, 2014, 06:57:23 PM
I fully support listing on CT as soon as possible if only to give these whining assclowns the chance to dump their shares and then GTFO of this thread.
January 21, 2014, 06:55:46 PM
This is a very interesting update. Let me precursor everything with this fact: not being on the bleeding edge does not mean that there is no possible profit. Let that ruminate. AMD has been the budget option to Intel for a long time. They have been the weaker option and yet they are still very much a thriving business. There are many examples of this when the demand is much greater than the supply - which is what we undoubtedly have in the mining market.
That said, 55nm is old. No, let me rephrase that, 55nm is ANCIENT - at least as far as the Bitcoin ecosystem is concerned.
Wait. Let me back up.
If you've read Ender's Game (which you should) then you'll remember when Ender is training his team and he quickly realizes that no one has any frame of reference in the battle room - a zero gravity space simulator pitting two teams against each other. Without anyway to think about the landscape there is no way to talk about it and if there is no way to talk about it there is no way assess, well, anything. Ender solves this simply. When the door opens the enemy gate is always "down". The objective is always "down". Once you have "down" you have a frame of reference, you can talk about the landscape, you can know where you are and where the enemy is.
Our "down" isn't quite as simple, but it certainly isn't complicated. One of our ways of gaining a frame of reference is to look at the competition's chip size. Is their tech more efficient then ours? Where are we in relation to them? KnC is aiming for 20nm by Q2. All of the other competition is still 28nm, as far as I know at this time. KnC has had 28nm since October of last year, if I recall (which is centuries in the Bitcoinoverse!) So the next frame of reference for us is $/GH. What is our cost per GH vs. the competition. And lastly, how many units can the company put out? Does their queue fill quickly? Do they leave a lot of demand when they move to push out their shipping date?
Once you can compare ActM vs everyone else pumping out machines using these metrics you'll get a good feel for the landscape and where ActM is within it.
I've long said that ActM doesn't have to be the #1 selling ASIC Miner, and I stand by that. ActM can make a good return on investment if it simply picks up all the leftovers when the big guys get their queues filled. That being said, the market is only getting more crowded and the crowd left over after #1 will flock to #2, and when it fills #3. The further we are down that totem the less likely we are to see a full queue. Q4 sales were, quite frankly, better than I expected. I hope that continues, but I have a hard time thinking that 55nm tech is going to draw anyone to VMC unless the $/GH is quite impressive. In my humble opinion, the full-custom chips better be right on the heels of the 55nm.
Not very much. We now have 2 Engineers in San Jose and a Project Manager working very closely with eASIC to make sure the project is completed the the shortest time possible.
^ This is very good.
That said, 55nm is old. No, let me rephrase that, 55nm is ANCIENT - at least as far as the Bitcoin ecosystem is concerned.
Wait. Let me back up.
If you've read Ender's Game (which you should) then you'll remember when Ender is training his team and he quickly realizes that no one has any frame of reference in the battle room - a zero gravity space simulator pitting two teams against each other. Without anyway to think about the landscape there is no way to talk about it and if there is no way to talk about it there is no way assess, well, anything. Ender solves this simply. When the door opens the enemy gate is always "down". The objective is always "down". Once you have "down" you have a frame of reference, you can talk about the landscape, you can know where you are and where the enemy is.
Our "down" isn't quite as simple, but it certainly isn't complicated. One of our ways of gaining a frame of reference is to look at the competition's chip size. Is their tech more efficient then ours? Where are we in relation to them? KnC is aiming for 20nm by Q2. All of the other competition is still 28nm, as far as I know at this time. KnC has had 28nm since October of last year, if I recall (which is centuries in the Bitcoinoverse!) So the next frame of reference for us is $/GH. What is our cost per GH vs. the competition. And lastly, how many units can the company put out? Does their queue fill quickly? Do they leave a lot of demand when they move to push out their shipping date?
Once you can compare ActM vs everyone else pumping out machines using these metrics you'll get a good feel for the landscape and where ActM is within it.
I've long said that ActM doesn't have to be the #1 selling ASIC Miner, and I stand by that. ActM can make a good return on investment if it simply picks up all the leftovers when the big guys get their queues filled. That being said, the market is only getting more crowded and the crowd left over after #1 will flock to #2, and when it fills #3. The further we are down that totem the less likely we are to see a full queue. Q4 sales were, quite frankly, better than I expected. I hope that continues, but I have a hard time thinking that 55nm tech is going to draw anyone to VMC unless the $/GH is quite impressive. In my humble opinion, the full-custom chips better be right on the heels of the 55nm.
Ken,
How far behind the 55nm rollout will the full custom 28nm be?
How far behind the 55nm rollout will the full custom 28nm be?
Not very much. We now have 2 Engineers in San Jose and a Project Manager working very closely with eASIC to make sure the project is completed the the shortest time possible.
^ This is very good.
January 21, 2014, 06:53:18 PM
Hey ken, please wait for the coloredcoins test/finish their project...
So we can be the one of the first serious securities trading there. Instead of having the old fashioned easily take down securities web-exchange.
Thanks for the updated. We really apreciated!
Good times coming!
So we can be the one of the first serious securities trading there. Instead of having the old fashioned easily take down securities web-exchange.
Thanks for the updated. We really apreciated!
Good times coming!
We will have to use CT and CS now.
January 21, 2014, 06:51:50 PM
Hey ken, please wait for the coloredcoins test/finish their project...
So we can be the one of the first serious securities trading there. Instead of having the old fashioned easily take down securities web-exchange.
Thanks for the updated. We really apreciated!
Good times coming!
So we can be the one of the first serious securities trading there. Instead of having the old fashioned easily take down securities web-exchange.
Thanks for the updated. We really apreciated!
Good times coming!
January 21, 2014, 06:51:30 PM
Will Intellihash be an added bonus to the 1.9GH/s chip or is that already factored in?
No, Intellihash will be a bonus.
January 21, 2014, 06:50:50 PM
Ken, how long have you known that the eAsic 28nm chip you promised everyone was never going to materialize?
If the CEO of ACtM says on an open forum that eASIC are working on our full custom 28nm ASIC chip then you can be sure that's a reality.
This CEO has been feeding you bull from the start, and you have been begging for more and bragging about how great it tastes. You deserve each other.
January 21, 2014, 06:49:15 PM
Ken,
How far behind the 55nm rollout will the full custom 28nm be?
How far behind the 55nm rollout will the full custom 28nm be?
Not very much. We now have 2 Engineers in San Jose and a Project Manager working very closely with eASIC to make sure the project is completed the the shortest time possible.
January 21, 2014, 06:47:28 PM
Ken, how long have you known that the eAsic 28nm chip you promised everyone was never going to materialize?
If the CEO of ACtM says on an open forum that eASIC are working on our full custom 28nm ASIC then you can be sure that's a reality.
January 21, 2014, 06:42:19 PM
Ken, how long have you known that the eAsic 28nm chip you promised everyone was never going to materialize?
Is there anything to suggest the "stealth startup" in your announcement is any more real than any of the other bull you've been feeding these folks?
Do you feel that you've successfully stalled this mess for another 5 months?
Is there anything to suggest the "stealth startup" in your announcement is any more real than any of the other bull you've been feeding these folks?
Do you feel that you've successfully stalled this mess for another 5 months?
January 21, 2014, 06:40:23 PM
Maybe I missed it because I just skimmed the pages.
Is there any physical proof of this? Namely pictures of the unit that includes pictures of the actual real-world hashrate or at least a pool account we can look at?
Is there any physical proof of this? Namely pictures of the unit that includes pictures of the actual real-world hashrate or at least a pool account we can look at?
The chips have not been produced at this time. We have just taped-out, so this is the start of the manufacturing process.
January 21, 2014, 06:38:17 PM
So now instead of a 28nm chip last year you've been promised a 55nm chip Q2 this year, and... this is good news?
Any news on the new boards to stick these 1.9GH chips on, and the millions of dollars in claimed preorders to refund, or is that a problem for later?
Any news on the new boards to stick these 1.9GH chips on, and the millions of dollars in claimed preorders to refund, or is that a problem for later?
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