Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] - page 112. (Read 771512 times)

Sigh. I give up. I'll just forget entirely what the professionals tell me shall I.

Forget about what a lawyer has told you. Quote me some regulation. Preferably SEC regulation. The judge will examine this not your lawyers view. The lawyer presents the case it's the judge who decides if the regulations have been breached. Quote some details or test cases or go home.

Please don't get into this, you are highly incorrect on both accounts.

If you want to discuss the whys or hows, please make a new thread. We can play who's dat sock all day.

He is the same guy as crumbs/thumper. He is Eduardo from Hashfast.

Dude, all I can say is you're wrong about pretty much everything you've said. Clearly you haven't worked in this area and don't work with a lawyer. So we can agree to disagree, but legally speaking I'm right. You're not taking a legal view, you're just making it up based on what feels like common sense or acceptable behaviour in your eyes. That's not how the law works at all, and nor does everyone agree with your common sense view.

Marketing is very carefully regulated and companies spend a fortune to sit just the right side of the law. You have to use the legal definitions and follow precedent, not go on the common law use of the word fraud. Or securities for that matter. Or trading. Crumbs (et alts) was wrong for similar reasons when claiming illegal securities and illegal exchanges. Whether they were had yet to be determined, which is still the case.

Hopes and dreams.

Ah I totally forgot about that.

He did, it was from CEX.io (I believe this was either speculated or found out already)

He dabbled in that in the meantime to try and get extra dividends to shareholders. He ended up selling off the hashrate and he said he made a profit on it which would go to shareholders.

As far is this is concerned as soon as he told me this I said that buying hashpower from CEX.io reeks of scam even if the company is legit so it was a bad move. However I was a little more forgiving since he said he was able to get a profit for the shareholders (even though it wasn't much). It seemed more of him testing that site to see if potentially that might be something ActM would want to do in the future (Everyone knows CEX.io needs some competition).

Also to clear up any speculation about the shipped product, it wasn't chips or a hashing miner as he clarified that with me.

Obviously a lot of you had huge expectations on what "Products" or additional hashrate could be. You set yourselves up to be disappointed (even though I was also a little hopeful). When ActM has something substantial it will be spelled out in big bold letters, pictures taken, etc... There will be no "speculation" on what it could be. This should help going forward.

Should be fun to see the next few announcements as you guys remember IceBreaker correct? He was very similar to a lot of the trolls on here, screaming about this and that and pumping Hashfast. He lost a 5 BTC bet and HashFast is turning out to be one of the slimiest companies out there and IceBreaker is nowhere to be found. Embarrassing to say the least.
 

Utterly preposterous. Ken did not lie or exaggerate. He stated a fact.

The fact that we are shipping product (of any type) means the business is now in the position of trading and that is a news-worthy development. It is a significant fact when a new company ships it's first sale, that does not need to be a finalised full-scale full-production model. It could be any component relevant to that business. VMC are not the first start-up to say 'We have shipped our first product' and not meant a finalised item. It is called marketing.

And as to with-holding key details, I think you are crazy if you think Ken is under a legal obligation to tell shareholders about every technical set back. That is commercially sensitive information as well as there being an NDA in place.

Again you keep mentioning fraud. There is no fraud or attempt at fraud here. Please move on.

So we've established that Ken's not good enough an engineer to be effective.
He also isn't good enough as a communicator.
What, exactly, did you invest in?

Woah that was you

Wondered where that came from. Thanks!

Thank you for taking the time and expense to do this Bargraphics, I appreciate it.

Did Ken allude as to what the extra "Hashpower" that came online last Year was from?

Like you say Bar, it's marketing. It's not illegal and it's nothing to do with the SEC. The term 'Product' in no way excludes any item VMC wishes to sell or re-sell.

When Audi say they had sales of 200 Million USD are they breaking the law if 10% of those sales were not cars but warranties? No. Product is anything sold. We sold product and that is all Ken said. Period.

Yes I did because I wanted to start people actually talking about it rather than burying heads in the sand. I knew Ken would be less than pleased but he got this one badly wrong.

Ken just isn't good enough when it comes to the whole area of communication and surely it's about time a paid professional was hired who could manage all the PR completely, leaving Ken to deal with the engineering.

Wait, so I'm VE now...? LOL What did I post besides a sarcastic response gif to an obvious troll? Some of you guys really need to chill the fuck out and take the tinfoil hats off.

You're confusing a legal definition with common use of the word. If this were deemed a security and if people traded on the information, then things like this or non disclosure of key details can be deemed securities fraud.

Since trading was very limited at the time the effect is negligible but it was wrong to mislead people. Being late with mining hardware is the norm, not the exception. He shouldn't have been scared to say they were experiencing minor delays whilst some technical issues were being resolved.

Ken has always meant well. It's the execution that has faltered at times. ActiveMining is not a scam but it's also not the best run company ever, IMHO of course.

I've spoken to Ken outside of this thread and we're ok. He needed to know that things like this are not acceptable, even if done for a seemingly good reason. It puts too much at risk.

Please do not quote "Crumbper". Thank you.


I agree that most of the time ff69 is level headed and above board but he was a bit dramatic on the initial post and sent some sparks flying.

I'm fairly sure Ken is aware that it wasn't the best business practice and obviously it was more of a marketing trick. From my discussion with him regarding it I don't believe he will be doing anything like it in the future. But I guess it gives everyone something to argue about in the meantime.

Gloating about spotting Active Miner for a scam?  Absurd.  I'd sooner gloat about not diving into empty pools, or being able to recite the alphabet.

Just catching up on this thread, this is a new low if people  (and Ken) are attacking ffssixtynine. It is really disappointing.

Since the beginning he's been one of the most helpful and level headed here. Whenever he had concerns or disagreements, he's talked about them in the right way. Whether you disagree with him or not, the majority of you could learn from him on how to conduct yourselves.

(I'm firing up my wallet to send you some BTC as a thanks for trying to do the right thing throughout all of this, I genuinely appreciate it)

Oh you, Thumper the gloater is here still. You like nothing better to do than shit on others in a hard place.

Seriously get a life and get lost.

This really is the 4Chan of investing.