Topic: Advice on trading dispute between me and scyth3 - 8 x Neptunes purchase - page 2. (Read 1235 times)

I fail to understand how I am the crook when you held my miners and lied about them being broken. I can only sell them for 7.11BTC now and you bought them for 17.73BTC. The difference is your responsibility, I did nothing to breach the agreement, so you should be responsible for the bill.

NO! Under no circumstance I am paying you for the miners' full market value AND you still keep them and sell them. You are either bad at math or are a plain crook.

I will pay the difference in purchase price and market value - ie $200 per miner, but nothing more. That seems fair.

You just don't know what depreciation means apparently. Past value - current value is not 7.11 btc at today's 449 btc price, it's 3.56. $600 - $400 = $200 / 446 = 0.4484 * 8 = 3.58 btc

3.58 + 0.33 + 0.44 + 0.75 = 5.10 btc. THAT should be your MAX compensation. I offered 4.75 btc compensation which is what your 13 btc refund would've meant. I accepted your 13 btc refund offer.

I did make a mistake. I subtracted my time, shipping and  damage instead of adding

17.73BTC - 7.11BTC is the depreciation. Past value minus current value.

My compensation = 17.73BTC - 7.11BTC + 0.33BTC + 0.44BTC + 0.75BTC

My compensation = 12.14BTC

Should be correct now.

I think there is something wrong here with you. How in the hell you expect to be compensated 7.11 btc for the miners. You want us to pay you $400 per miner and you still get to keep the miners and sell them for $400?! WTF?! Should't depreciation be the difference between $600 and $400 - ie $200 per miner?! I hope you made a mistake here cause if I am understanding this correctly what you are doing here is plain robbery!

I think your first "off the cuff" compensation request was more reasonable - ie 13 btc back to us you keep the rest.

If you want that, take it go. I will take the loss and move on.

1. I got an offer from Lightlord for $400 each about a week ago. Assuming he would still buy them for $400 each then we can use that as current market value. 7.11BTC
2. $50 per cube x 3 cubes. 0.33BTC
3. $200. 0.44BTC
4. $338. 0.75BTC

My compensation = BTC paid by you - present miner value + my time + my shipping costs + shipping damage

My compensation = 17.73BTC - 7.11BTC - 0.33BTC - 0.44BTC - 0.75BTC

My compensation = 9.1BTC

You are probably going to scream about how I am using BTC value instead of dollars because BTC value skyrocketed. Remember, you held up these miners from being sold to legitimate buyers 2 months ago or they would have sold to someone else for 17.73BTC. That is part of my lost because of you.

Yes that is true. But I don't see how any of this is relevant. Just like you took your time testing them when you got them back we were constrained by our time table. We did our best to test them as soon as we could. End of story on this front.


Give me a detailed breakdown, don't just pull a btc figure out of your ass cause you feel 4.7 btc is what you are owed for nothing. You want $2K compensation in total?!

I need you to justify what you think is the current market value of each rig, your "time", your repair costs.

Once again, give me detailed breakdown and I will discuss it with my associate and see if it's a reasonable loss to take to get you off our backs and never deal with you again!


I'm still blaming them for being faulty with expected settings and under normal conditions. You will see the next person you sell them to will tell you the same, but anyways, that is besides the point. It could end up being that way or it could not. We wanted to run all cubes at stock 475 MHz with PSUs that power SP20s and S5s just fine. No issues there. Just your Neptunes. I have no idea what power supplies you use. You told me you have fans blowing on them and other ghetto rigging. No doubt that is to cool the VRMS or whatever cause your Neptunes have no thermals pads and the VRMS will easily overheat and shutdown. This leads to dead dies that do not come back until a power cycle. That is what was happening in our case.

It was my fault for not double and triple checking with you every fine details. I do remember at first that I confused myself and though they were batch 1 Neptunes. Only later I found out they were compensation units. I asked you what hashrate I should expect, and you said 3.0 ~ . We expected them to hash at around 2.9 to 3.0 TH. Nope, that was not the case. 1.5 to 2.0, 2.3 were the kind of hash rates were were expecting.



How are you holding the back man! Explain!! You have the gear in hand and we did NOT damage it. You can hash!
Of course I believe you should be compensated but it should be fair for BOTH of us, not just the most you can squeeze from US. I agreed to pay you for repair costs of the 3 damaged cubes, your shipping costs, and as you said "your time". Not sure what $ value you'll put on your time but as long as it's reasonable I will pay it. If you can give me a total of how many hours you spent testing the units and getting them to hash to your liking and what hourly rate you expect to be paid I will once again pay that.

We want this behind us with no hard feelings as much as you do, but don't try to lord it over us an think that just because you are a seller the buyer gets no protection and we are at your mercy.

If you are a reasonable person than let's negotiate the compensation. Don't accuse us of being scammers. We are not. I realize this is not ebay but I think that resonable buyer protection rules should still apply. Just because this is a btc transaction does not mean we are in the wild west.


Have you tried to sell them again or not? Put it for sale and see - either here or on ebay or wherever you want. We don't care for how much you sell them for. We paid a specific $ figure at the time of purchase and we expect a refund of that amount. As you said it's $600 per Neptune rig. The shipping you pre-paid we will pay you back. The repair costs, we will pay for. The time you put into testing we will pay you for it. Simple! We ask for nothing more. I even told you we'd offer a bit of extra money on top as a sorry for wasting your time payment.


Us selfish?! That is uncalled for and you know it. If your gear performed as expected we'd would've gladly kept them and even so gladly accept them again. The only reason you're offering this now is cause you are being selfish too and you think that you will hit a windfall cause btc price is higher. We paid for them in $ terms and that's all that should be factored into this. If btc price would be lower than when you sold them you would NOT be even offering this.

You know this and stop trying to take us for fools.


Ummm, no we returned them without testing the other 4 cubes because we did not have the time to test them and mess around with them. My associate had to leave for Labrador and could not spend 4 to 5 days messing with your unstable gear. Rather than waste our time and yours further (by keeping your gear idle longer) we decided that we'd ship them ALL back including the untested ones and let you see if you can sort them out.

This decision was a loss cutting decision and I thought at the time it is what you wanted too. You never said or mentioned ANYTHING about depreciation compensation BEFORE we sent you back your gear. Had I known about this beforehand I may have never sent it back. This is unfair and a bait and switch. Anyone can see this is not a fair business practice.

I've sold and bought a ton of gear here and I've never had any problems with any transactions except YOU. If anything people should be careful when dealing with YOU as you try to do everything in your power to have everything work in YOUR favor without any loss. This has been your whole attitude.



If you want to sort this out here is what I need from you:

1) What market value you think these miners have NOW in $. We can then subtract that from the purchase price. Even though I do NOT agree that you should be compensated for depreciation we are curious to know what figure you come up with.
2) A $ figure for your repair costs for those 3 cubes that got damaged during shipping
3) A $ figure for your time spent testing them and ensuring they hash to your liking
4) Shipping costs we know and those I will cover. I covered shipping costs back to you already.

The miners were delivered November 6, 2015, UPS tracking: 1ZY764W66898990355. More like beginning of November, but you did not power them on until a week after.





What risk are we talking about here? That a buyer would test miners with faulty PSUs then blame it on the seller? The problem is you held my gear up and tried to make me pickup the depreciation tab. The miners work fine and you admitted to your PSUs being the issue. You are breaching our agreement by backing out of it, so you should be responsible for the depreciation costs. If I chose to hold the gear under my own free will then that would be a totally different story.


13BTC


I agreed to take them back because you were blaming the miners for being faulty. I would have told you to take a hike, if you wanted to return them because your power supplies are faulty. You breached the agreement, plain and simple. You returned miners that were as advertised. You should be responsible for any losses I have incurred, which included depreciation.


Selfish? From the guy that returned working product and leave the seller holding the bag. I am a reasonable person, we can negotiate the compensation. If you don't believe I should be compensated then there is no point in negotiating. What risks? That a buyer will return working product a month later? This isn't eBay, you go do your scam there.


Find these buyers who would buy it for $700 each. I would sell it to them and we can use $700 in BTC to calculate the compensation.


Selfish hypocrites are going to be selfish hypocrites. How about this? If you think I had no loses then I offer you to be in my position. I ship the miners back to you on my dime and you release the escrowed funds to me. You can be in my shoes, as easy as that.

Conclusion:


From the above conversation, he actually says that he would return them even if he found them to be working. Buyer's remorse? You be the judge.

Be careful when dealing with Allivain. It will get ugly when the shit hits the fans with him.

His last reponse was to blame me for breaching a "contract" and how I should be responsible for the loss due to depreciation. He agreed to take them back and at the time he made absolutely NO mention of any depreciation penalties. Funny that he does this act now that he has his gear in hand and hashing fine.

I'm still waiting for a response from him (still Sunday night here) as to what sort of $ figure of depreciation or compensation he is looking for. He is a selfish seller and that's the end of it. I would never ask what he asks if I was in his shoes. I understand the risks involved in selling hardware that does depreciate in value.

The funny thing is that it's likely due to the high BTC price his Neptune rigs have INCREASED in value, yet he asks for depreciation compensation. I bought the rigs for $700 plus shipping. $700 for 3.x (promised) TH. None of his rigs performed at that level but that is a different discussion. That price is still pretty decent given today's hw market. He should have no problems selling the gear for $700.

The reality is likely that he is just mad that he did not successfully unload his gear and now he wants to give me a hard time and punish me for it. Unprofessional behavior, even after I promised to pay him for his wasted time testing the gear when he got it back, and for his shipping costs, and I paid for shipping costs back to him. He is not the loser in this whole deal, by any means!

Did he even respond? He must of said something.

Seller offered no $ figures of any sort.

Perhaps a clearer timeline of events and the actual compensation amounts requested/offered by the seller/buyer would be insightful.

bump

It was suggested by my escrow agent OgNasty that I should open this thread.

I have an open dispute with a seller of 8 x Neptunes I purchased around the middle of November 2015. He sold me compensation batch neptunes which did not perform as expected when they got in our hands. Seller suggested it was our power supplies (DPS1200FB) which may or may not be right. Batch 1 Neptunes has reliably but not at full speed when using the same power supplies. His Neptunes would in hashing power massively and cubes would die all the time. At the time we did not have other power supplies to use so we thought returning the gear back to the seller is best. Seller was adamant his gear is fine and it works. The gear got shipped sometime around the first week of December. We paid for shipping back to the seller. Out of all 8 rigs, only 4 were removed from their boxes and tested/used. The other 4 were left untouched. All units were shipped back in the exact manner and packaging the seller used.

He got the package: Wednesday,  12/09/2015 at 12:34
Tracking # as proof: H9950333319

He told me that he is on some holiday related visit back to the East Coast, so he could not get around to testing the gear until sometime the beginning of January. Here we are. He got the gear and tested it. All the rigs tested out fine according to the seller. Seller says 3 of the cubes suffered damage during transit back to him.

Our costs $35 USD per unit ($765 per rig with shipping included), Import costs $150 CAD, Shipping back to him $450 CAD.


Seller seeks compensation for his time, damage, and shipping (original shipping to us). We agree to all these terms, However where we fail to come to an agreement is when the seller asked us to pay equipment depreciation.

He seeks: BTC paid by you - present miner value + my time + my shipping costs + shipping damage.

I offered: BTC paid by me - his time - his shipping costs - shipping damage

On top of that I even offered a couple hundred dollars as a good will gesture for wasting his time. We did not enter into the transaction with the intent to screw him over. His gear did not work as advertised for us and that's that. We sent him back his gear and he has it back, so my problem is what more does he want. He has suffered no major financial loss in this transaction.

The gist of this is that I guess I need some advice or some way to come to a resolution and end this dispute. I am of the opinion that it's unfair to ask the buyer to pay for his equipment depreciation. This is a strictly an RMA transaction. The way I understand things is when you return something you get your original payment back - any expenses that are obvious and necessary. First of all he took his time testing the gear. I realize this may not have been under his control but this is the risk you assume as a seller. Second of all he would've suffered the same hardware depreciation just by holding on to the gear. Once again this is the risk you take as a seller.

Advice, comments, suggestions? Feel free to share.