Topic: After Chipmixer, Is Sinbad.io Next To Be Shutdown? - page 2. (Read 1064 times)

Mixers will basically always fall victim to their own success. As soon as someone pulls off a hack and utilizes the service, it will be seized. This has been shown to be true time and time again now. I think in the future people will look back at the operators of these mixing services and think they were quite brazen to be operating so out in the open and even paying to advertise.  

Looks like their signature campaign manager has locked their thread and is saying they aren’t going to release any funds from escrow… Bold strategy. Let’s see how it pays off for them.

Though the answer remains unknown, I think the founder/creator/owner/operator of both Blender and Sinbad (known as Mehdi) probably became too confident and as a result of that he probably thought he had mixed/jumbled the $22 million he used to create Sinbad to the point it would not be traced back to Blender. He was wrong because a blockchain Elliptic did link them.

I think there is a clear difference when a mixer is being used to mix for the average person conducting non-criminal acts for the sake of increasing privacy and an enterprise that has been created with laundered money to offer a mixing service

I have no doubt they will come down on mixers very hard but cannot speculate as to when the clampdown will start (unless it already has). The accusations against Chipmixer and Sinbad are/were of colossal money laundering therefore they law enforcement agencies closed them down but other mixers did not receive as much attention. That will no doubt change in the future as more money launderers search for alternatives to mix their funds.

Though this is my personal observation, the government is doing all these to destroy Bitcoin since they could not destroy it directly so they have to enter it from the window to destroy everything, Andy they are attacking any company that connected to Bitcoin activities therefore those who are using those services should be careful with the kind activities you share. But question the op asked it looks like futuristic. CM is down z Sinbad is down now which one is the next one to shutdown? It is a very simple question, and it needs a simple answer.

Any mixer that deviate from the mixing rules to do it own things and likeness will be shutdown. Because as a mixer you have to obey the rules set out for you to operate.

Interesting, I hadn't heard anything about that prior to the seizing of their site--and that tells me I ought to bookmark at least one crypto news website. 

Why in the world would any mixer that wants to remain in business for the long term accept funds that are so tainted that, as you said, in doing so they would seal their own fate?  I assume mixers have a choice in the matter, no?

Going forward I'm guessing the US and other governments are going to scrutinize all the mixers harder than they ever have, and I'm wondering if any of those governments are just going to take the quick route and criminalize them.  I always hear that bitcoin can't be stopped by any government, but if you make it illegal to use just watch its adoption drop off a cliff.  Same thing with mixers I'd imagine.

Well, I did create this thread to ask a valid question about whether Sinbad would be next to be shut down by multiple law enforcement agencies because if it could happen to Chipmixer, it could happen to any mixer.

It has taken around six months from when I created this thread to Sinbad being seized but I do not feel vindicated even though I was right. A crystal ball was not required to see this was eventually going to happen because the law enforcement agencies already had their eyes on the Sinbad mixer.

Let us not forget Sinbad was already connected to the Blender mixer money laundering because it received at least $22 million from Blender for the owner/operator Mehdi to launch Sinbad and that why it was always going to fail.

There were also claims made Sinbad was used to launder some of the $35 million stolen from the Atomic Wallet hack. Coindesk have the update on their website.

This Wired.com interview and article regarding Sinbad.io was interesting on several levels including the fact the owner/operator of Sinbad mixer categorically refused to answer the question when asked if Sinbad.io was a relaunch post-branding of the now defunct Blender.io

"Elliptic" is a crypto tracing company that provided evidence to backup a link between Blender and Sinbad and since Blender was already on the radar of the US law officials because they faced allegations of money laundering huge amount, therefore the thread was related to Sinbad. Had allegations in the Wired.com article had been made against Coinomize, Wasabi, YoMix, Whirlwind or others I would have created the same thread but altered the name from Sinbad to the other.

It is as simple as this: Blender was shut down because of money laundering allegations and the owner/operator is wanted by US investigators to face criminal charge. Strong evidence has been put forward by a crypto tracing company that Blender.io was relaunched as Sinbad.io therefore in my opinion the chances are the next mixer to be shutdown will be Sinbad as it is already linked to criminal activity conducted during the previous carnation which was Blender.io

I was hoping for a wider intellectual debate rather than those that have posted with ulterior motives therefore I am locking this thread as some here have missed the point entirely and tried to take the thread deliberately to a different direction when any member including you and I should not be stifled in our comments just because of wearing one particular set of signatures or avatars. If that were the case, all those wearing gambling/gaming or crypto exchange signatures and so on should not be allowed to post comments related to competitors as each and every time a conflict of interest will be falsely cited and that mindset is unacceptable in what should be thriving free speech forum.

This is not a rumor, but a fact confirmed by one of the staff members. We have already discussed this so many times that any further discussion is completely pointless, just as this discussion is pointless considering that logic leads us to a single conclusion, which is that all mixers are targets of those who want to stop them. Which one will be next is just a mere guess and nothing more.

Chipmixer was very lucrative and that was why the campaign thread was flooded with pages upon pages of applicants as soon as there were slots available. As mentioned earlier, I applied (around 3 times) and was overlooked therefore stopped applying.

Can you imagine how difficult carrying out this process manually would be and how simple it would be if it were possible to automate it?

If there was evidence of this happening it would be

There was also the matter of alleged alt-accounts participating in the Chipmixer campaign. I have to agree with you, some members that were both advocates of Chipmixer and also posting regularly to meet the income threshold have gone quiet but if they no longer need to meet those requirements to earn a signature campaign participation income and can earn a weekly amount by posting less then they will as with most members that would probably be the driving factor of their presence here.

There was a link posted some time back where a forum staff member stated words to that effect. I need to try to find it as it confirmed what you cited as a rumour to be true.

I can't really add much to the discussion and my only disclosure is that I once applied but didn't get a look in and so never reapplied for the chipmixer signature campaign (or any other mixers for that matter) after that.

Not long after my application was turned down, the fee being paid to signature participants collapsed but was still very lucrative nevertheless.

I agree with DaveF's sentiment that users seeking mixed coins will probably turn to depositing crypto to exchange A, split the coins into many chunks e.g. three, four or five) or many more) swap them for other crypto and or tokens then send those tokens to other exchanges B, C and D or even uniswap/pancake swap style instant exchanges to either swap back to what ever crypto they were and then sent on to the final destination or yet another exchange, rinse and repeate.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if perhaps a couple of the people taking out short term loans of a thousand dollars at a time on a very regular basis are repaying with laundered money either from Ponzi/hyip style scams, or, money filtered through the above method.

Has anyone else noticed after the initial toxic shock of the chipmixer demise that certain high and not so high profile UID's have started tailing off the amount of their posting...?

Then there is also the rumour that @theymos has sent out an edit that no admin/staff moderators are allowed to join mixing signature campaigns.

It seems like you want to create a war among the Mixer World Campaign participant
Do you know one thing? People are interested more in negative things. If you spread negative things, more and more people will engage with this and will find it interesting to discuss. While I believe JollyGood's title choice is a bit weird. He could have used better wording not to poke Sinbad. But the title makes it more interesting to read.

examplens, did you see the fact LeGaulois posted in another thread? It seems Sinbad and Blender Owner is the same. Since Blender was seized, and now it's exposed that Sinbad is Blender, they should take action and come up with a new brand name.

If there is going to have a thread like that, then we will have episodes of the names of the mixer that will likely next target to be shut down, if we're asking about what happened to Chipmixer and the fate of the other mixers the topic should be generalized for all mixers not just one, as if the authorities have only eyes on Sinbad

And there's openness on Sindad's founder based on the article you provided

https://www.wired.com/story/sinbad-crypto-mixer-north-korean-hackers/

So the founder is willing to address the issue and not ignore it or run away from it.

I feel that this caption is not the best to use in this context. The body of your post showed clearly that you made a post as a user in the forum who is at liberty to express himself whenever and however.
But remembering that the signature and avatar you wear is the one of the major competitor of sinbad.io. You would have been kinda lenient in the choice of your title. Something like this could be more appropriate.

After Chipmixer, which mixer is Next To Be Shutdown?

Then, in the body of your post you would then mention the article sinbad was linked to blender or so.

I have the same sentiments, I think eventually mixing will be portrayed as being synonymous with criminal activity and that false narrative will be pushed out by those that wish to control the agenda. Yes mixers can be used for criminal activity but does not they will. but there might be some sort of radical transformation or implementations which could theoretically keep certain mixers out of trouble but it depends on how law enforcement agencies approach it in conjunction with mixers.



It certainly was a general question and that debate is twisted somewhat by those that see me wearing a signature and overlook the question raised. You are right it is a silly argument against crypto but those that are putting out false information on a regular basis by equating criminal activity to crypto are simply hiding ulterior motives. Like fiat can be used for nefarious purposes crypto can be too but that does not mean it is specifically a tool for criminals.

If those that have become super-rich because of crypto get together to put forward an alternative view that is being projected against crypto then they could help manage the way crypto is talked about in political circles including the all-important financial departments. If lawmakers get a real understanding of what Bitcoin and other crypto are then they will be far more better placed to make the safest and best decisions.

That is true, either they get financial penalties or bad headlines but hardly ever are there criminal cases against banks and when there are there is little to no talk about them being shut down. The problem Sinbad faces is different to competing mixers because none have been accused of being previously associated with Blender and that makes the difference here.

You can as many questions as you like

If Sinbad is operated by the Blender team but Coinomize, YoMix and Whirlwind (and others) are not, then the chances are the others will last longer than Sinbad.

I cannot add more to what you wisely posted other than my opinion that all mixers are most probably being watched by various law enforcement agencies and the moment serious criminal activity is detected they will be shutdown.
 

There were times I thought this, too (especially after BitMixer and Blender were taking down). But I got some hope when I read the proposed regulation for crypto-asset transfers in the EU. They acknowledge clearly that there are legitimate uses of mixers here:

Source: Draft legislation 2021/0241 (COD)

It is implied that this means no general prohibition of mixing, however, that crypto asset service providers, when registering a transaction coming from a mixer and the transaction being suspicious, "should" collect additional data and/or a justification of the mixing "practice".

Of course this is only a draft proposal in one of the major economic regions, but it could indicate a "pragmatic" stance regarding mixers becoming more commonplace. It is also possible that mixing services themselves could be regulated eventually, i.e. for example determining maximum non-KYC amounts and otherwise some form of KYC (which would of course be difficult to be implemented by the current mixers like Sinbad, Whirlwind etc.).

Of course if it is suspected that a mixing operator has cooperated with criminals or acted with a high degree of negligence (i.e. not performing at least basic chain analysis for funds linked to major hacks/thefts/ransomware attacks), then further seizures are to be expected.

---

Edit: Unfortunately, the article I mentioned before was deleted from the final regulation draft. Instead a more ambiguos passage was introduced: that the European Banking Authority (EBA) should clarify the rules crypto-asset providers shall adopt when faced with transactions which went through mixers. So we have to wait what's the final outcome of this.

It seems to me that JollyGood very clearly targeted only one mixer in the subject. He also leaves a reference to this discussion only in the Sinbad ANN thread, I would say try to dramatize everything more. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62321741
If you were to observe everything from the point of view of someone who came here to get information about which mixer to use, how do you see this Jolly's performance?

At the same time, he obviously did not research everything enough.

This has already been discussed, and T3PR00T posted the reference from those discussions.

I'm pretty sure that the owner of Whirlwind or Hhampuz as a signature manager doesn't want this kind of campaign.



Why stop there, earlier we saw different paths of the mixer. Can I start a global discussion about mixers with something like Is Whirlwind.money Next To Be an exit scam?
Or if The Sceptical Chymist wants it to be more global we can include Unijoin in this way, it would really encourage discussion. We just need to change the name of the mixer with passive accusations.



Whirlwind has only been operating for a few months. How do you know the same thing won't happen to them? A group of hackers will mix coins through it and it can easily be accused of money laundering. As far as I know, not a single mixer has a solution to protect against "dirty funds".

btw. JollyGood did you read the discussions posted by T3PR00T before starting this topic?

No offence taken  

Unlike the Blender and Chipmixer websites, Whirlwind has not been seized or forced to shutdown. Also, to my knowledge Whirlwind have not been accused of money laundering by any law enforcement agency nor is their owner/operator the subject of an international arrest warrant. Having said that, criminals will use anything that is available for conducting (or trying to conduct) criminal acts.

As an example, just because banks can be used for money laundering does not mean everybody using their services will launder money and as long as the banks have mechanisms in place to either reduce, minimise or eliminate the risk of illegal activity by the owner/operator they will end up escaping serious criminal charges as they do not want to fall in to illegal activity. If a case was made against a bank they could fight a lawsuit against a governmental agency to show they implemented various rules to prevent criminal activity. I think exchanges do the same, they blacklist addresses that have passed on them by law enforcement agencies and are obligated to seize funds to hand over various data to those agencies.

A test case for a mixer in a Court of law will be thoroughly informative. It will become interesting if we ever see a legal defence by the Chipmixer owner/operator or the Blender-Sinbad owner/operator (if either get arrested and presented before a Court).

Yes he seems confident but he refused to answer the question when it was put to him if Blender and Sinbad were related.

The connection was made with a lot of proof, it is much more than a rumour.

The article in Wired was specific to Blender and Sinbad therefore the thread however if I find one where an allegation has been made against another mixer (regardless of their name) I will not hesitate to post about it.

No

I found no article about Whirlwind that alluded to them being a criminal enterprise. As far as I am aware the Whirlwind team have not been accused of money laundering and have not been accused of being being behind Blender.

No

Where is the negative spin? I created a thread to post a link to Wired.com

I have almost zero interest in Chipmixer and anything related to them including who used them and during which time periods. Also, I never used their service. I did apply maybe 3 times to join their signature campaign but was overlooked therefore stopped applying. Only the law enforcement agencies will be able to state their reasons for the investigation in to Chipmixer, I have no idea how long criminals used it for.

The name Mehdi does not sound Russain. It's more like a Pakistani name or middle eastern name.

If you believe so then I highly recommend you to stop promoting a mixer, even leave the bitcoin forum and live a life where you don't need to touch crypto. You are in Bitcoin and to the law enforcement, Bitcoin is somehow illegal or fair to say they are trying everything to label Bitcoin as illegal asset. Why are you risking your life?

This is one of the concerns bitcoiners have had so far - and of course I think it's normal and makes sense.
The government will try to put up more of a fight for any mixer and it's definitely on their watch list. Of course their main reason is to prevent a lot of money laundering cases - but actually they seem to have another mission besides fighting crypto, confiscate bitcoin for example.

The same will probably be attributed to some of the other mixers currently growing and developing, but of course it's a matter of time. Until then, I think the government will shut down any mixer service like they have done other mixers before.

No, it has to be on games and rounds board and need a handsome amount of prize pool from OP's own funding.

There are already two topics about it on service discussion board:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blenderio-sinbadio-thoughts-5439754
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wallets-belonging-to-both-blender-and-sinbad-are-identified-in-elliptics-soluti-5446173

Even it was discussed on sinbad.io Ann too: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/sinbadio-mixer-secure-fast-and-easy-to-use-5416985

I trust my reading and I saw another topic about it on another board that makes four places to discuss about it. Having another one about the same topic and in the reputation board is just boring.

I guess Sinbad is paying people secretly to keep them always in the discussions. Whatever they are doing, it seems all are working very well to keep the brand always in everyone's mind.

I think whirlwind still have long road to receive such attention yet. Right now Sinbad seems the most popular mixer around.

Maybe OP should move this topic in gambling board, this question sounds to me like a guessing game or visiting to some gipsy fortune teller and asking her to tell you future from your hand palm.

Can I ask a counter question, Is Whirlwind.money Next To Be Shutdown?