(Almost sure)brainwallet.org stole 22BTC from me - page 2.

Muhammed Zakir

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 10, 2015, 11:41:59 AM

Probably it is way more secure and user friendly to use a service like Xapo than a brainwallet.

If you use a strong passphrase for your brainwallet, then it is definitely better than Xapo. Well, if you are taking about Brainwallet.org, then still, I am firm with my words! I have used it many times! It may not be secure enough to use Brainwallet.org online though.

Btw, Brainwallet.org and brainwallet are two different things. So please do specify correctly when you are talking!

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

Probably it is way more secure and user friendly to use a service like Xapo than a brainwallet.

Muhammed Zakir

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I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 10, 2015, 10:05:40 AM

Quote from: ANEES on August 10, 2015, 09:58:31 AM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 10, 2015, 09:21:13 AM

There are so many varied opinion and arguments here, but the facts remain, there's a new article about people losing money to a web wallet, or a service, or such every other day.

Isin't it about time people start learning that coalescing BTC to centralized security is just lowering the security of (and probably theirs) Bitcoin?

It was not the problem of Brainwallet.org. It was hacked obviously because the passphrase was weak. Regardless, I don't understand why are you mentioning centralized when it is about Brainwallet.org. Please don't spam!

As far as i know, Brainwallet.org is a web resource, which is centralizing your Bitcoin (your security is being weakened and made more easily attackable because of).
Web resources are constantly getting hacked, so yes, even though a web resource can be properly secured and maybe Brainwallet.org was, it still has the big vulnerability of coalescing BTC into one vulnerable environment.

Then again maybe it wasn't. I can't personally vouch that Brainwallet.org's deterministic algorithm was secure, or that there was no security vulnerability on their side, or exploits, or was legit.

So yes this is centralizing your Bitcoin security/vulnerability.

It is a website of a bundle of tools which can also be used locally. You can download it and run it offline locally. You can also load it online and then turn off internet connection. This is not a online wallet or something. Brainwallets are hacked because of the poor/weak passphrases used.

If using a tool is centralizing Bitcoin's security, then I am sorry for you!

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: yohanip on August 09, 2015, 04:06:05 AM

From now and on, please use those which are open sourced and could be run locally.
Generating a private key on a website is a big no..
this would apply too to those vanity address provider..
we should always consult back to the basic law.. there is a very good reason it was called a private key..

Especially never put anything over half a coin on a web wallet that has the private key and you don't. It is ridiculous this keeps happening.

If you are talking about Brainwallet.org, it is not a web wallet. It is a website of a bundle of tools which can also be used locally.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: ANEES on August 10, 2015, 09:58:31 AM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 10, 2015, 09:21:13 AM

There are so many varied opinion and arguments here, but the facts remain, there's a new article about people losing money to a web wallet, or a service, or such every other day.

Isin't it about time people start learning that coalescing BTC to centralized security is just lowering the security of (and probably theirs) Bitcoin?

It was not the problem of Brainwallet.org. It was hacked obviously because the passphrase was weak. Regardless, I don't understand why are you mentioning centralized when it is about Brainwallet.org. Please don't spam!

As far as i know, Brainwallet.org is a web resource, which is centralizing your Bitcoin (your security is being weakened and made more easily attackable because of).
Web resources are constantly getting hacked, so yes, even though a web resource can be properly secured and maybe Brainwallet.org was, it still has the big vulnerability of coalescing BTC into one vulnerable environment.

Then again maybe it wasn't. I can't personally vouch that Brainwallet.org's deterministic algorithm was secure, or that there was no security vulnerability on their side, or exploits, or was legit.

So yes this is centralizing your Bitcoin security/vulnerability.

ANEES

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 10, 2015, 09:21:13 AM

There are so many varied opinion and arguments here, but the facts remain, there's a new article about people losing money to a web wallet, or a service, or such every other day.

Isin't it about time people start learning that coalescing BTC to centralized security is just lowering the security of (and probably theirs) Bitcoin?

It was not the problem of Brainwallet.org. It was hacked obviously because the passphrase was weak. Regardless, I don't understand why are you mentioning centralized when it is about Brainwallet.org. Please don't spam!

VirosaGITS

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Activity: 1302

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There are so many varied opinion and arguments here, but the facts remain, there's a new article about people losing money to a web wallet, or a service, or such every other day.

Isin't it about time people start learning that coalescing BTC to centralized security is just lowering the security of (and probably theirs) Bitcoin?

deepceleron

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Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 11:26:12 PM

Quote from: mookid on August 09, 2015, 11:20:45 PM

RIP. Use electrum or something else. Web-based wallets are so insecure.

No, you're completely missing the point. The problem is not that it's insecure. There are web-based implementations of Electrum (not called Electrum, but exact same technology). The problem is that the key generation method for a BrainWallet is completely flawed (in both theory and implementation). It doesn't matter that it's web based. Yes, web based wallets are less secure. But a well-implemented web wallet can beat out a shitty desktop wallet any day. Green Wallet is a great example of a great implementation, because their code is very JS-based, and very little actually happens server-side.

And then when the website is hacked to look the same, but it is replaced with an address logger, etc? Or the site operator goes rogue and installs a background decrypter to a "secure" wallet and then cashes everyone out?

Lesson, don't put more bitcoin in a web wallet, exchange, or web-generated address than you can afford to lose. The same warning can even be made for regular bitcoin wallets if they are used on your virused keylogged rootkitted backdoored RATted Java, PDF, and Flash 0-day Internet browsing machine.

Here's a foreshadowing quote I made that amuses me:

Quote from: deepceleron on December 11, 2014, 05:30:50 AM

...
I echo the sentiment that it is not worth developing any kind of "brain" based wallet, and that people who trust people to make their own passphrases are not people to be trusted with people's passphrases.

I had contemplated making a brainphrase-to-deterministic-wallet creator, but even if it used ten minutes of GPU time hashing through various combined key derivation functions per passphrase, it still could not be secure, being limited by the unbounded inventiveness of dummies using easily guessable passwords.

btcspry

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Quote from: mookid on August 09, 2015, 11:20:45 PM

RIP. Use electrum or something else. Web-based wallets are so insecure.

No, you're completely missing the point. The problem is not that it's insecure. There are web-based implementations of Electrum (not called Electrum, but exact same technology). The problem is that the key generation method for a BrainWallet is completely flawed (in both theory and implementation). It doesn't matter that it's web based. Yes, web based wallets are less secure. But a well-implemented web wallet can beat out a shitty desktop wallet any day. Green Wallet is a great example of a great implementation, because their code is very JS-based, and very little actually happens server-side.

mookid

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RIP. Use electrum or something else. Web-based wallets are so insecure.

btcspry

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on August 09, 2015, 08:52:18 PM

Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 08:25:40 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on August 09, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 05:16:43 PM

People are having problems with BrainWallet.org. If you would like to learn more about why it closed, and its current safety in the community, please refer to this post here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/brainwallet-defcon-attack-discussion-advice-qa-brainflayer-info-etc-1148611

If you have coins in a BrainWallet and would like to withdrawal them, please go to http://brainwallet.bitforwarder.com and use the generator hosted there to get the private key and send the transaction, as the original BrainWallet site is now closed down.

you want people to use YOUR site to get their private key? hope no one is stupid enough to do that.

I'm a litle bit insulted that you'd suggest we're going to steal people's bitcoins if they use our site. We strongly suggest that people use the "Download ZIP" button at the bottom of the page, and generate the private key offline as they should know to do for larger amounts of bitcoin. You can do a comparison of our code on our website with the code from the second most recent commit on the BrainWallet GitHub (the most recent commit before the code was removed), and you'll clearly see that it is the exact same (except for some minor changes in the index.html file). If you have any other questions or comments, please let us know!

No need to be insulted. Thanks for clarifying. Your first post said "use the generator there and send the transaction".

Totally fair, always better safe than sorry. The goal was just to help the panicking noobs with getting their 0.01 BTC out of their BrainWallet. Of course if you're an investor and have $10k in a BrainWallet, get some help transferring it to a Trezor.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 08:25:40 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on August 09, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 05:16:43 PM

People are having problems with BrainWallet.org. If you would like to learn more about why it closed, and its current safety in the community, please refer to this post here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/brainwallet-defcon-attack-discussion-advice-qa-brainflayer-info-etc-1148611

If you have coins in a BrainWallet and would like to withdrawal them, please go to http://brainwallet.bitforwarder.com and use the generator hosted there to get the private key and send the transaction, as the original BrainWallet site is now closed down.

you want people to use YOUR site to get their private key? hope no one is stupid enough to do that.

I'm a litle bit insulted that you'd suggest we're going to steal people's bitcoins if they use our site. We strongly suggest that people use the "Download ZIP" button at the bottom of the page, and generate the private key offline as they should know to do for larger amounts of bitcoin. You can do a comparison of our code on our website with the code from the second most recent commit on the BrainWallet GitHub (the most recent commit before the code was removed), and you'll clearly see that it is the exact same (except for some minor changes in the index.html file). If you have any other questions or comments, please let us know!

No need to be insulted. Thanks for clarifying. Your first post said "use the generator there and send the transaction".

btcspry

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on August 09, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 05:16:43 PM

People are having problems with BrainWallet.org. If you would like to learn more about why it closed, and its current safety in the community, please refer to this post here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/brainwallet-defcon-attack-discussion-advice-qa-brainflayer-info-etc-1148611

If you have coins in a BrainWallet and would like to withdrawal them, please go to http://brainwallet.bitforwarder.com and use the generator hosted there to get the private key and send the transaction, as the original BrainWallet site is now closed down.

you want people to use YOUR site to get their private key? hope no one is stupid enough to do that.

I'm a litle bit insulted that you'd suggest we're going to steal people's bitcoins if they use our site. We strongly suggest that people use the "Download ZIP" button at the bottom of the page, and generate the private key offline as they should know to do for larger amounts of bitcoin. You can do a comparison of our code on our website with the code from the second most recent commit on the BrainWallet GitHub (the most recent commit before the code was removed), and you'll clearly see that it is the exact same (except for some minor changes in the index.html file). If you have any other questions or comments, please let us know!

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: btcspry on August 09, 2015, 05:16:43 PM

People are having problems with BrainWallet.org. If you would like to learn more about why it closed, and its current safety in the community, please refer to this post here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/brainwallet-defcon-attack-discussion-advice-qa-brainflayer-info-etc-1148611

If you have coins in a BrainWallet and would like to withdrawal them, please go to http://brainwallet.bitforwarder.com and use the generator hosted there to get the private key and send the transaction, as the original BrainWallet site is now closed down.

you want people to use YOUR site to get their private key? hope no one is stupid enough to do that.

btcspry

member

Activity: 132

Merit: 17

People are having problems with BrainWallet.org. If you would like to learn more about why it closed, and its current safety in the community, please refer to this post here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/brainwallet-defcon-attack-discussion-advice-qa-brainflayer-info-etc-1148611

If you have coins in a BrainWallet and would like to withdrawal them, please go to http://brainwallet.bitforwarder.com and use the generator hosted there to get the private key and send the transaction, as the original BrainWallet site is now closed down.

tygeade

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Quote from: bitcoinmasterlord on August 09, 2015, 10:57:58 AM

Quote from: tygeade on August 09, 2015, 10:55:09 AM

OP, sorry for loss. Undecided

Quote from: bitcoinmasterlord on August 09, 2015, 10:48:22 AM

That is uncool. Sorry for your loss.

But i don't like brainwallet.org being down now permanently. It was a nice and easy way to check signatures. Sad

You can easy check signatures on http://www.coinig.com/.

Thank you, but i liked the simple brainwallet.org verification. You only needed to enter the block of code that included message and all and it verified it for you. On coinig.com you have to copy paste tree things each time.

Isn't there another website with such tool?

Idk.
If you find it, post it here.

zero01

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I was the fault of the system brainwallet.org, try to send a message to the email admin

bitcoinmasterlord

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Quote from: tygeade on August 09, 2015, 10:55:09 AM

OP, sorry for loss. Undecided

Quote from: bitcoinmasterlord on August 09, 2015, 10:48:22 AM

That is uncool. Sorry for your loss.

But i don't like brainwallet.org being down now permanently. It was a nice and easy way to check signatures. Sad

You can easy check signatures on http://www.coinig.com/.

Thank you, but i liked the simple brainwallet.org verification. You only needed to enter the block of code that included message and all and it verified it for you. On coinig.com you have to copy paste tree things each time.

Isn't there another website with such tool?

Quote from: FlipperBTC on August 09, 2015, 10:56:46 AM

Quote from: yohanip on August 09, 2015, 04:06:05 AM

From now and on, please use those which are open sourced and could be run locally.
Generating a private key on a website is a big no..
this would apply too to those vanity address provider..
we should always consult back to the basic law.. there is a very good reason it was called a private key..

This website was open-sourced, and it was made with github pages. This means that it's impossible to backdoor the site without people seeing that change on the github.com repository - in other words, it's OP's fault, not the site's.

If you are right then i hope at least some features will be hosted on another domain now.

FlipperBTC

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Quote from: yohanip on August 09, 2015, 04:06:05 AM

From now and on, please use those which are open sourced and could be run locally.
Generating a private key on a website is a big no..
this would apply too to those vanity address provider..
we should always consult back to the basic law.. there is a very good reason it was called a private key..

This website was open-sourced, and it was made with github pages. This means that it's impossible to backdoor the site without people seeing that change on the github.com repository - in other words, it's OP's fault, not the site's.

bitcoinmasterlord

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Quote from: electerium on August 08, 2015, 01:09:05 AM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 08, 2015, 01:04:22 AM

If you're using a brainwallet, move your coins - NOW!

On August 7th I will be giving a talk at DEF CON about cracking brainwallets. As part of that talk, I will be releasing a fast[1] brainwallet cracker. I'm writing this post to provide a little insight as to why I'm giving away a tool that could be used to steal. I also hope that people who are currently using brainwallets will take notice and move to a more secure storage method.

https://rya.nc/defcon-brainwallets.html

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3g7bpa/brainwallet_shut_down_permanently_due_to/

SHA256 your passphrase IMMEDIATELY and move your coins to trezor, electrum, etc.

But electrum has a mnemonic passphrase that serves as a seed. And brainwallets are mostly a similar list of words.

So what i wonder, is this fast brainwallet hacker able to put together enough random words fast enough to hack electrum mnemonic passphrases too?

tygeade

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OP, sorry for loss. Undecided

Quote from: bitcoinmasterlord on August 09, 2015, 10:48:22 AM

That is uncool. Sorry for your loss.

But i don't like brainwallet.org being down now permanently. It was a nice and easy way to check signatures. Sad

You can easy check signatures on http://www.coinig.com/.

Topic: (Almost sure)brainwallet.org stole 22BTC from me - page 2. (Read 7231 times)