Topic: Altilly Exchange FAKE Refunds, Possible Exit Scam - page 2. (Read 1010 times)

As I said here, refunds don't have to be completed all at once, but gradually by processing legitimate claims (users who signed their addresses) first. It only takes one verification per address, then you can ask the address owner to list the txids of the output tx that end up in your hot wallet.

For users sending funds from a centralized wallet, I prefer the video capture proof from the phone showing a detailed history per their wallet withdrawal to your exchange deposit address.

I've heard something similar before. I repeatedly tried to resolve the issue of a refund amicably through Charles, but, like you, he suggested that I contact him later, citing a heavy workload. I periodically wrote to him and in the end we got to the point where it all started "no screenshots of deposits from the email - no return" and no other options are offered or suitable. Time wasted. As a result, more than a year has passed since the hack (output scam) and you propose to wait again, it is not clear what and how long.
Nayiem, we are adults and let's get to the point. Do you agree to accept refunds for users who can sign the address? (or offer some of your conditions for confirming ownership of the funds, but that it would be feasible for all users, and not the circus that you came up with email screenshots, requesting them almost a year after the event).
Give us a clear YES or NO answer. If you agree, then announce the approximate terms, if not, then we will use other means to get a refund from you. We need to count on something and plan our further actions.

Deposit emails don't tell if funds are deposited from an exchange either, you could have set up a simple form asking for deposit tx and a option field if it was from personal wallet or exchange. Then you could check personal tx,  subtract withdraws from deposits and refund based on this.
Then you could ask for further proof for deposits from exchange.

The team didn't consist of only you and lead dev before this happened..

The issue with sending funds back to the wallet where it came from is that some users have deposited funds from an exchange.
I'm not sure if this is something that people want.

I've been in touch with the hosting provider. I can guarantee you that it was not an inside job. Also by looking at the living circumstances from the lead developer of Altilly, I can tell that this wasn't planned.

Requiring emails is just BS. Exchange wallets is easily recognizable, funds could be sent back to the address they came from.
Messages about this in refund channel was DELETED on the fly.

This was an inside job, then they just made up a lot of crap to keep people busy in order to avoid jail.

I don't think Nayiem did it, but also seem he don't understand blockchains very well.

You mean the punching bag and the so-called decision maker  
I'm definitely not the leading tech guy behind Altilly and have never been.

I've joined the discussion and will read up in this thread and provide answers in a moment.

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So to answer the above questions.

The so far best method is to analyze the screenshots we request from users.
We have a method to verify the content of the screenshot which we are not able to share at this time.

All of the refunds could have been easier if we had honest users.
Unfortunately, people have been sharing their wallet address, txid, names and emails in telegram channels and on forums online.
There are even communities where certain people already know the addresses from their community members.
Because of this, we had to deal with a lot of fake refund claims.

During the initial refund claims, we even had to deal with people that created a youtube tutorial on how to claim refunds with funds they never had, simply by copying tx ids from other users.
Or by checking the master wallet addresses of Altilly, and then just copy the txid and claim a refund based on that.

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We've also stated in the Altilly_Refund channel on telegram that we will first handle refunds using the current method.
Once those are all handled (over 85k), we will look in to those that can verify the claims in other ways.

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Having only a team (if that's what you can call it) of 2 members, and after being in a full year of complete depression with the rest of the team falling apart, I can tell that it's a shitty situation that no one deserves.
We will do whatever we can to make sure that everyone is being refunded. It's going to take a lot of time and patience, but we will get there.

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About the person that wrote in this thread that our developer was incompetent about not having backups and losing everything. Please check this page https://qredit.io/altilly
I would have the same reaction as you, no arguing about that. But perhaps you want to take a look at that page and read the complete story before saying those things.

Once i have handled all refunds for those who qualify with deposit confirmation emails
i will be happy to explore the possible option the signature may provide.

True that tx hash doesn't exactly provide a proof of a wallet ownership, hence both of the victims here are offering a signed message and/or a screenshot of their desktop wallet showing the address. If you ask me, that is actually a win-win solution, you got your prove and could move on from this refunding issue sooner, while they got their right. I really can't fathom the reason why a signed mesage from the original wallet is proof of ownership enough.

I think a little bit faster way to get to the bottom of this issue is by inviting the decision maker or the one specifically handed the task to clear the refunding issue here.

They were all trashed and gone by the time you announced your refund policy. Maybe you invite Nayiem to the conversation as he seems to be the tech guy behind Altilly?

After the hack occured most of the rest of the team moved on.  Myself and nayiem are doing the best we can to refund users. 

Well, if you are not competent in this matter, then why are you doing this? Invite someone who understands this, if any. Only it seems to me that your entire so-called team consists of 2 people - you Charles and Nayiem. Well, the rest are secondary representatives (admins, moderators, etc.), who do not play any role.

Blockchain does not provide proof that you own the address it was sent to. I will try to get more details on the signatures. 

Blockchain has proof that even you or the scammer can't change anything. If the funds are successfully sent to your hot wallet, then it is proof and you can't deny it. Very strange, I've never even seen a reputable exchange use this method.
The recovery method you requested is a waste of time for the real owner of the funds. Even people new to crypto know that blockchain verification is more credible than screenshots. Does your team not have competent resources to analyze blockchain transactions?

If you insist on generalizing claim terms like that, your problems will never go away at least refunding the user who can sign the address.

Screenshots can be easily manipulated this is correct. That is why we only accept them for the deposit confirmation emails.

There is information in those emails that will tell me if the screenshot has been manipulated.  Which information it is I will not divulge
or scammers will know how to screw us.

So let me summarize what you are saying.

You dont have any solid proof that ever had assets on altilly but you want a refund?   Not even one deposit confirmation email?


Charles

If your database is completely wipeout than how can you verify if the user screenshot is legit or not? Screenshot of previous deposit is very easy to photoshop and remove any trace of edit. You can't verify if the user is telling the truth if you don't have any blockchain records that will prove that the transaction is really happened.

Claiming you don't have backup to your database is absurd. This only proves how incompetent your developer is by completely wiping out your database and leave you empty handed. This is a bullshit excuse for not refunding customer.

It is, but wallet screenshots don't actually prove anything. Import any address as watch-only and it will look like you own it. I mean the complete transaction history will be there. However no private key, nothing can be spent.

of course there is and I provided screenshots from the wallet, but everything was rejected. ONLY screenshots of deposits are suitable.

No, I mean do you have a transaction record within the wallet itself? I looked at PhoenixCoin's website and learned that they have a desktop wallet and I assume this is what you use. Within the wallet app, s there a tab that shows transaction history? If there's any, a screenshot of it is probably a proof enough --although signed message is also a strong one, if you ask for my personal opinion.

1) I always keep my inbox clean and constantly delete old emails. I have a maximum of 5 important emails in my inbox. I have such a habit, I like cleanliness and order.

2)see last post by ph4nt0m. This is the only and correct solution for both parties, but Altilly stubbornly offered only 1 type of evidence in the form of screenshots, as they knew that the vast majority would not be able to provide them and it would be possible not to make returns. Altilly does not want to agree to the option proposed by ph4nt0m, as this will set a precedent and thousands of deceived users who have been denied refunds by Altilly will demand them. It is very good that this situation has come up for public discussion and now it will not be possible to quietly hush up the situation.

1. Yep, I keep it tight. Never felt like I need to keep every single deposit, withdrawal, login email.

2. There could be some left in trash, but they were long gone by the time when Altilly announced those emails were must have.

3. PXC is a Bitcoin fork made in spring of 2013. Probably one of the first 20 coins ever made. Sure there's a working wallet, block explorer, etc.