Topic: Am I the only one that doesn't stand for the pledge and the national anthem? (Read 3932 times)
March 09, 2012, 10:42:57 AM
I stand for the pledge. But if there were a rule saying I had to, I would sit with my back to the flag. This is what being an American is all about.
March 09, 2012, 01:31:24 AM
Hawker will you even entertain the thought that subjugating children in third world countries is not worth the benefits we currently enjoy? I would argue we are worse off because violence is not the solution to socioeconomic problems.
Your reply will be so ridiculous I won't bother to stay up and read it, just stop spitting out propaganda and read a book. I have resigned to the fact that you must be a troll... or you just enjoy arguing for arguments sake.
Your reply will be so ridiculous I won't bother to stay up and read it, just stop spitting out propaganda and read a book. I have resigned to the fact that you must be a troll... or you just enjoy arguing for arguments sake.
February 18, 2012, 09:40:25 PM
A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?
I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?
I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?
When Jehovah Witnesses go to any event where it's customary to stand and place the right right hand over the heart, they do stand, but do not place their hand over their heart or recite the pledge or sign the anthem. Some may take that time to offer a silent prayer to Jehovah, but that is all.
February 18, 2012, 07:38:30 PM
This is directed to "Boss" and Matthew:
I understand both of your points quite well, but ultimately, I think "Boss" has a greater point, and even though I don't believe he stated it as such, here's how I look at it:
Simply put, nationalism is a step away from racism. While the point about showing respect and not causing a scene simply to cause a scene is spot on, I think Matthew's analogy to a Chinese man bowing and the "Boss" failing to reciprocate the bow is inaccurate. This is an example of one man showing respect to another man directly. Standing for the Pledge is quite different.
Virtually every war in the history of mankind, and definitely all forms of oppression, are created out of a self-vs.-other paradigm. Nationalism only reinforces that self-vs.-other paradigm and in my opinion, it's fucking stupid.
Now, I understand that it takes a very idyllic mindset (and a stubborn one) to cause the scene that the "Boss" did. I'm guilty of this myself and I've done it on a number of occasions, albeit with declining frequency as I grow older. But, the thing is we need people like "Boss" making these kinds of statements. Experience will tame his stubbornness over time. I'm still learning that while there are things about America I loathe, I also still really like myself. Because I am a product of American society, I must be grateful to it -- ALL of it -- at the same time that I want to change it.
I understand both of your points quite well, but ultimately, I think "Boss" has a greater point, and even though I don't believe he stated it as such, here's how I look at it:
Simply put, nationalism is a step away from racism. While the point about showing respect and not causing a scene simply to cause a scene is spot on, I think Matthew's analogy to a Chinese man bowing and the "Boss" failing to reciprocate the bow is inaccurate. This is an example of one man showing respect to another man directly. Standing for the Pledge is quite different.
Virtually every war in the history of mankind, and definitely all forms of oppression, are created out of a self-vs.-other paradigm. Nationalism only reinforces that self-vs.-other paradigm and in my opinion, it's fucking stupid.
Now, I understand that it takes a very idyllic mindset (and a stubborn one) to cause the scene that the "Boss" did. I'm guilty of this myself and I've done it on a number of occasions, albeit with declining frequency as I grow older. But, the thing is we need people like "Boss" making these kinds of statements. Experience will tame his stubbornness over time. I'm still learning that while there are things about America I loathe, I also still really like myself. Because I am a product of American society, I must be grateful to it -- ALL of it -- at the same time that I want to change it.
Very well stated. +1
February 18, 2012, 07:34:30 PM
... but I don't start a thread about it to get attention.
Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?
...
+1 Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?
...
Boss, Don't you know other places to publish your every thought ? Something like Twitter / FB ?
For the love of god, Why are people even replying to this, ?
This has remotely nothing to do with bitcoin.
It's in Politics & Society. Very on-topic for the subforum.
February 18, 2012, 07:06:00 PM
... but I don't start a thread about it to get attention.
Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?
...
+1 Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?
...
Boss, Don't you know other places to publish your every thought ? Something like Twitter / FB ?
For the love of god, Why are people even replying to this, ?
This has remotely nothing to do with bitcoin.
February 18, 2012, 06:25:54 PM
...snip...
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
America's debt is owed to Americans. If you decide to inflate it away, it will go away and America will still be a fine rich country.
Or do you imagine millions of angry grannies will overthrow the state and demand their money back?
America's debt is owed to a non-governmental agency called The Federal Reserve. They'll happily destroy the currency while they hold other assets.
The Americans? They'll be left with nothing.
Amusing. And when they have achieved their evil goals, will they fly back to Manchuria?
February 18, 2012, 06:23:45 PM
...snip...
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
America's debt is owed to Americans. If you decide to inflate it away, it will go away and America will still be a fine rich country.
Or do you imagine millions of angry grannies will overthrow the state and demand their money back?
America's debt is owed to a non-governmental agency called The Federal Reserve. They'll happily destroy the currency while they hold other assets.
The Americans? They'll be left with nothing.
February 18, 2012, 06:22:32 PM
This is directed to "Boss" and Matthew:
I understand both of your points quite well, but ultimately, I think "Boss" has a greater point, and even though I don't believe he stated it as such, here's how I look at it:
Simply put, nationalism is a step away from racism. While the point about showing respect and not causing a scene simply to cause a scene is spot on, I think Matthew's analogy to a Chinese man bowing and the "Boss" failing to reciprocate the bow is inaccurate. This is an example of one man showing respect to another man directly. Standing for the Pledge is quite different.
Virtually every war in the history of mankind, and definitely all forms of oppression, are created out of a self-vs.-other paradigm. Nationalism only reinforces that self-vs.-other paradigm and in my opinion, it's fucking stupid.
Now, I understand that it takes a very idyllic mindset (and a stubborn one) to cause the scene that the "Boss" did. I'm guilty of this myself and I've done it on a number of occasions, albeit with declining frequency as I grow older. But, the thing is we need people like "Boss" making these kinds of statements. Experience will tame his stubbornness over time. I'm still learning that while there are things about America I loathe, I also still really like myself. Because I am a product of American society, I must be grateful to it -- ALL of it -- at the same time that I want to change it.
I understand both of your points quite well, but ultimately, I think "Boss" has a greater point, and even though I don't believe he stated it as such, here's how I look at it:
Simply put, nationalism is a step away from racism. While the point about showing respect and not causing a scene simply to cause a scene is spot on, I think Matthew's analogy to a Chinese man bowing and the "Boss" failing to reciprocate the bow is inaccurate. This is an example of one man showing respect to another man directly. Standing for the Pledge is quite different.
Virtually every war in the history of mankind, and definitely all forms of oppression, are created out of a self-vs.-other paradigm. Nationalism only reinforces that self-vs.-other paradigm and in my opinion, it's fucking stupid.
Now, I understand that it takes a very idyllic mindset (and a stubborn one) to cause the scene that the "Boss" did. I'm guilty of this myself and I've done it on a number of occasions, albeit with declining frequency as I grow older. But, the thing is we need people like "Boss" making these kinds of statements. Experience will tame his stubbornness over time. I'm still learning that while there are things about America I loathe, I also still really like myself. Because I am a product of American society, I must be grateful to it -- ALL of it -- at the same time that I want to change it.
February 18, 2012, 06:11:39 PM
...snip...
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
America's debt is owed to Americans. If you decide to inflate it away, it will go away and America will still be a fine rich country.
Or do you imagine millions of angry grannies will overthrow the state and demand their money back?
February 18, 2012, 06:09:12 PM
...snip...
By the way, I am not arguing for protectionism. Consumers need to learn to make the choices on their own. Perhaps the equalization will prove good for the world as a whole, but the once most powerful nations in the world will suffer for it. Or maybe it will bring everyone to the level of slave labor?
...snip...
By the way, I am not arguing for protectionism. Consumers need to learn to make the choices on their own. Perhaps the equalization will prove good for the world as a whole, but the once most powerful nations in the world will suffer for it. Or maybe it will bring everyone to the level of slave labor?
...snip...
Or maybe the entire premise of allowing unfettered competition gets rethought?
February 18, 2012, 06:08:09 PM
You aren't making sense. What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?
People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to. So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.
Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough. I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?
Ah the inevitable collapse. Any minute now the whole system will come crashing down won't it?
In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.
February 18, 2012, 06:06:05 PM
You aren't making sense. What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?
People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to. So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.
Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough. I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?
Ah the inevitable collapse. Any minute now the whole system will come crashing down won't it?
February 18, 2012, 06:02:37 PM
You aren't making sense. What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?
People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to. So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.
Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough. I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?
February 18, 2012, 05:58:40 PM
You aren't making sense. What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?
People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to. So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.
Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough. I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?
February 18, 2012, 05:54:37 PM
You aren't making sense. What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?
People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to. February 18, 2012, 05:37:24 PM
You aren't making sense. What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?
February 18, 2012, 05:32:48 PM
...snip...
The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?
The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?
Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old?
My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.
If your changes mean a fall in living standards, why should anyone listen to you?
February 18, 2012, 05:28:30 PM
...snip...
The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?
The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?
Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old?
My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.
If your changes mean a fall in living standards, why should anyone listen to you?
February 18, 2012, 05:08:49 PM
...snip...
The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?
The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?
Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old?
My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.
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