Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 147. (Read 223316 times)

Can you please continue this conversation in PMs. We know what you are saying and have heard you say it repeatedly. I personally don't want to hear about it anymore. The dog has been beaten, beaten, and beaten again.

Caught in a lie, and still trying to carry on. I wasn't trying to frame you. I stated you had no asks at 0.0005 because I was the only ask at the time. You added one share at that price, and then stated that you did have shares  at that price. Which was a lie. Framing you would mean making you look guilty for something you didn't do. But you did this, and you've acknowledged it. You are the CEO of the company and you are publicly lying about your share selling activity. And the IPO isn't even over yet. And you dare suggest that I am the one who needs to be 100% truthful? Hey, I'm not the liar here.

Yes you are right, I spend a lot of time on the market, that was because my team and I was driving back from Bitcoin 2013.  During the drive we were able to
brain storm some great ideas which will make AMC investors a lot of money.

You are right, you were trying to frame me and you did, so congratulations on your plan.  You are just a speculator that got caught and now your're mad.  Any LONG TERM investor in
AMC will be way ahead on their investment in the LONG RUN.  AMC, in its actions, were trying to raise funds to purchase more machines from VMC to make the "LONG TERM INVESTORS" more return on their investment.  Also you may notice that this is a self-moderated thread, but I did not delete your comments.  The reason for not deleting your post is that I believe in Freedom Of Speech; however, you must be 100% truthful in your comments.

One thing I am sure - He spends a lot of time on the market and not development of his product, that is for sure.
I don't get why people are still buying his shit, his main focus is milking every bitcoin possible from but not trying his best to benefit all his shareholders.

CEO: liar and a manipulator

1) Liar because he made a public false statement that he had shares at 0.0005 when in fact he did not. He subsequently claimed it was a mistake, that he had shares there just a few minutes ago, but this is impossible to do by accident, because he added exactly one share for sale at 0.0005 upon making his statement, and would thus know exactly how many he had there, and since he had moved his ask away from 0.0005 minutes beforehand, he would also know that piece of information. Impossible to do by accident. This is verifiable by anyone with the channel logs and the bid/ask history (which unfortunately would only be bitfunder). The reason I know is because I was the only other ask at 0.0005.

2) Manipulator because he successfully sold shares above 0.0005 and then down to 0.0005 over and over again. Upon discovering this practice, we see that people are feeling tricked and cheated. What looked like an open market was being sold into repeatedly down to 0.0005 by someone with over 39 million shares to sell. This is fact and can be corroborated by the trade history and by the reduction in share counts in the assets list.


So, you may argue the lie was small. You may argue that the manipulation was permitted by the contract. Both plausible positions to take. But it's not plausible to argue that Ken slaughter is trustworthy. On that basis, the asset is worthless.

Yes, that is correct.

6 Avalons, plus 3 more to be built = Total Revenue In A Year Of $274,272.46 As Of Today.
Take 50% To Purchase New Machines To Keep The Revenue Up As The Difficulty Increases.

Capitalize the remaining revenue at 5%,  Value =  $2,742,724.60

So the value of just what the cooperative owns = ~$2.7 Million or $0.068568115/share or 0.000519455 BTC / share

Now, consider the fact that AMC will use the proceeds from the IPO to develop an ASIC for Bitcoin Mining and/or to purchase more mining equipment, you can easily see where the shares in the future could be worth quite a bit more.

In addition, VMC will be paying AMC a 10% royalty on any machines it sells with AMC technology and you have
a cooperative where the share price could explode to the upside.  

You can't assume market value solely on price, without taking into account volume. Your estimation assumes all shares are sold (volume).

Market capitalization is equal to the share price x shares outstanding. Shares outstanding are all the shares of a corporation or financial asset that have been authorized, issued and purchased by investors and are held by them.

Exactly. The correct quote on the contract is "If demand is strong enough then share prices may increase throughout the IPO", so we agree that a fixed 0.0005 at all times was never promised?

The stock was issued, you can't "take it back". If you check the Profile>Details tab on Bitfunder, there is 40,000,000 issued. What you mean is that an illusion of scarcity was created when the ask wall at 0.0005 was removed. In the end, that is a benefit for AMC, since it allows to see the real market value of shares, instead of keeping a fixed minimum price. All shareholders benefit from a higher sell value, as it increases the holdings of the company their shares belong to.


Thats the big problem with BitFunder and IPOs. It's not designed to handle them well. Only the issuer should be allowed to sell shares during an IPO period.

Understand.

Company: established 2 months ago, assets amounting to one non-delivered order of 6 avalon machines (and some plans about future growth). Market value: USD 2.6 million.

Correct?

Sure, neither does it state that they are sold on Pay-what-you-bid basis.

The assumption you make about the demand is false. It took two months for the volume to decrease from 5 to 4.6mil. He created an illusion of demand by removing the stock of the market. That's the problem.


Sorry, this make no sense. Of course, they would pay the flipper.
Just in case you did not think that far that's what happens with stocks when IPO is bought out.
Currently when people buy most stock on BitFunder  they are buying it from someone who is flipping.


What is the point of saying this in the contract if this is not what you are doing?

Final thought...
I am not completely against retrieval when mistakes happen (in this case overestimation of demand).
I do think it is fair though to have the issuer make a statement when he does retrieve.
It is natural for people to think that stock is in demand when orders disappear.

Also for some reason, when it comes to putting large volume on the market there is no problem with communicating but when it comes to backpedaling there is.

Anyway, good luck!

Nowhere I did see the statement that shares would be all selled using solely an "ask wall" method. It was stated that the price could rise due to demand.

Overvalued stock? So, they would be happy to pay higher for their stock, just not to the issuer? They would be really happy now, knowing they had bought from a flipper and not helping AMC a bit. Nice logic there.

That's a bullshit argument. The contract reads like shares would be issued in batches or starting with a placement of 5 mil which would not come and go willy-nilly. Evidence? At least two people above thought IPO closed out and bought overvalued stock.

Was wondering what your flipping point is. You've highlighted that an order book may have been manipulated, and your pissed off because you feel deceived. Thats an understandable, reasonable human reaction, but also quite pathetic, given the context and whats trying to be achieved here. Have a think about what you are trying to achieve, and if your expectations will ever be met.

Widows and orphans, rikur. Widows and orphans.
 

I'm really starting to think you're in this to make sure AMC is only offered at a minimum price, like that would be really beneficial for the cooperative and its shareholders in the long run.

Also, you have clearly no idea of the various price strategies that shares can be sold in an IPO. Pay-what-you-bid was used in the IPO of Japan Telecom, for example. Thinking that IPO shares can only be sold all at the same price reveals quite the lack of market knowledge.

EDIT: It is also pretty straightforward to see that if you bought shares at price X, everytime the issuer sells shares at a price:
- Lower than X: your shares lost value
- Same as X: your shares kept value
- Higher than X: your shares increased in value

It is of the best interest of anyone that bought shares at prices higher than 0.0005 that the issuer stops selling everything at 0.0005 now.

Your point being? I'm not in this to flip anything.

It is sad to see history so quickly forgotten.

I highly doubt that it will be delisted. But BitFunder is looking into it and hopefully more clear IPO rules/mechanism will spring up as a result. I'm still holding my shares, just hoping that they get this cleared up.

I will post an update here once I get one from BitFunder. Might take a couple of days though.

Did try to make him view things differently. You are coming across as educated idiot rikur, and i hope you have thought about the repercussions of your actions.